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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by AngelontheRiver View Post
    I am staying tuned. If evidence I consider compelling comes to light I may change my mind. Only a fool wouldn't. I meant the judge shouldn't have allowed it. There should have been a new trial.
    An attorney explained it to me. I won't attempt to explain all the details, but the crux was that it was the judge's call to ascertain that the evidence - all evidence - was now more likely to lead to an acquittal. So, it wasn't unethical for him (Laser) to make a ruling that, to some, appeared to be contradictory.

    That's why he could accept the Alford Plea, even though his comments led many to believe that he was convinced of the innocence of Damien, Jason and Jessie. An example was his comments praising supporters at the hearing on 08/19/2011. Remember, this deal was worked out by both sides. So, the judge had to take that into consideration.

    IMO, the State benefited mightily from the Alford Plea because of the additional caveat that there would be no lawsuits for false imprisonment - regardless of what transpires in the future. So, even if the three are exonerated and the real killer is investigated, tried, convicted and imprisoned, the three cannot sue for false imprisonment. That's pretty big, IMO.

    So, with Ellington's admission that the original defense proposal was to skip to the trial and eliminate the cost and time of the evidentiary hearing and that the State objected to that because of discovery issues, only time will tell what happens. With Pam's lawsuit against the wmpd and others, we can only wait and see if any of the new information that I'm convinced the defense has is made public in connection with the suit. I'm afraid it won't because Ellington is still playing the CYA game, or rather the "get the votes" game and won't want that information to be made public.

    If Ellington loses in November and Pam's case hasn't been resolved by that time, I'm hoping that some of the information will then be made public. I just hope that the information is made public sometime - preferably sometime soon. Again, we have to play the waiting game.


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  3. #32
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    The judge appears very unprofessional. I think he abused his position. Star struck.


  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by AngelontheRiver View Post
    The judge appears very unprofessional. I think he abused his position. Star struck.
    Sorry, but that is simply not true! Unlike in the Tim Masters case in CO, the Arkansas law won't allow a judge to simply rule that the evidence doesn't support the original conviction. Had the evidentiary hearing taken place, Judge Laser could have ordered a new trial or he could have ruled that no new trial was warranted. There were no other options. The Alford Plea allowed the State to save face and the three innocent men to go free. IMO, the judge's actions were extremely professional. There was no abuse of position, unlike Burnett refusing to recuse himself - repeatedly.


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  6. #34
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    The judge should have ordered a new trial or denied a new trial. Not accepted a plea from people already convicted and sentenced.


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  8. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by AngelontheRiver View Post
    The judge should have ordered a new trial or denied a new trial. Not accepted a plea from people already convicted and sentenced.
    Had the judge ordered a new trial, the three would have been found not guilty. Ellington said as much in the December, 2011 GQ article. The State knew that and didn't want it to happen. Hence the Alford Pleas. It's unsatisfactory and satisfactory for both sides, but it's what happened.


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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compassionate Reader View Post
    Yes. Remember that there's no deadline for presenting new evidence. Exoneration has come many, many years later in several cases. Just because nothing new has been released doesn't mean that there is nothing new.

    Pam Hicks just filed suit. ( http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/katv/...IA_Lawsuit.pdf ). The last civil suit in this case generated a mountain of new information. Maybe this one will, too. I'm willing to wait and see.
    I read Pam's suit filing. Does anyone know the intention behind her wanting to examine the evidence? Or could guess?


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  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    I read Pam's suit filing. Does anyone know the intention behind her wanting to examine the evidence? Or could guess?
    I've heard that it's for closure. I can understand that, I guess. She just wants to look at everything that they have in evidence. I support her.


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  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compassionate Reader View Post
    Had the judge ordered a new trial, the three would have been found not guilty. Ellington said as much in the December, 2011 GQ article. The State knew that and didn't want it to happen. Hence the Alford Pleas. It's unsatisfactory and satisfactory for both sides, but it's what happened.
    The judge couldn't know that. No one could. Ellington is a coward.


  15. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by AngelontheRiver View Post
    The judge couldn't know that. No one could. Ellington is a coward.
    In an evidentiary hearing, the judge must decide if there is sufficient evidence that a reasonable jury would deliver a not guilty verdict. Maybe the judge can't be 100% sure, but he is supposed to believe a new trial would most likely result in an acquittal or the original verdict should be upheld. In the December, 2011 GQ article, Ellington admitted that the judge was going to order a new trial. Based on what Judge Laser said at the hearing on 8/19/2011, I feel that it is obvious that Ellington's suspicions were correct - that the judge would have ordered a new trial. In fact, I suspect that the judge had communicated his intentions to Ellington.


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  17. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelontheRiver View Post
    The judge should have ordered a new trial or denied a new trial. Not accepted a plea from people already convicted and sentenced.
    Any defendant can plead guilty and not have a trial, which is what the convicted did. This is what most convicted do if they get an appeal and a new trial is granted, they just plea guilty and the time they have already served is given credit to them.

    Often they are sentenced by the jury and if there is no jury (which is true if they have no trial and plead guilty), then the sentencing would be left to a judge to decide.

    I want to know where the proof is that they were going to come up with to 'prove them innocent'. What happened to that meme? I guess they got a little star struck too and forgot about all that stuff. But, they continue to encourage donor money in their behalf.


  18. #41
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    On the contrary, it is very rare indeed for a convicted murderer to be set free in return for an Alford plea. Its rarer still for someone convicted of capital murder to walk off death row in return for one. Alford pleas are almost always used before conviction, not after.

    And for three people convicted of the same crime, (one sentenced to death), to walk free with time served and an Alford plea is unprecedented as far as I know. If you can find another example, please post it.


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  20. #42
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    When a cop has a suspect in a room, eye to eye...they usually know whether the suspect is guilty or not...it takes a very, very cunning...very, very cold blooded criminal to deceive detectives eye to eye.


  21. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello people View Post
    When a cop has a suspect in a room, eye to eye...they usually know whether the suspect is guilty or not...it takes a very, very cunning...very, very cold blooded criminal to deceive detectives eye to eye.
    Alas, that simply is not true. Which is why so many innocent defendants are convicted and so many are pressured to falsely confess.

    Of those freed to date by the Innocence Project, one in four had falsely confessed to the crime they did not convict. In each of those cases, detectives were certain they could "read" the accused.


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  23. #44
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    Ever heard the old saying....don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining? Now if a detective wants to piss down his own back and have someone tell him it's raining that's a different matter.

    I'm sure the Innocence Project has all manner of facts, figures and statistics...


  24. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello people View Post
    Ever heard the old saying....don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining? Now if a detective wants to piss down his own back and have someone tell him it's raining that's a different matter.

    I'm sure the Innocence Project has all manner of facts, figures and statistics...
    If anyone wants to know why the innocent men of the WM3 took Alford pleas, he or she need only read your last two posts.

    Since you apparently support the execution of innocent men, I'm not surprised Echols jumped at his first chance to get out.


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