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  1. #16
    Join Date
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    907

    Just Heard fr/ Another WS Vetted RN

    I just heard from cats5vegas, another WS vetted RN about Jane Doe 9098. Here is what cats5vegas had to say:


    "Hello! My nursing background is mostly hospice and auditing. But I am a bit familiar with the fasciotomy procedure.
    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasciotomy"]Fasciotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    I attached a wiki link. A facsiotomy is indicated with a limb has so much swelling that it is too much to be contained within the skin. The doctor makes an incision into the fascia (layer of fibrous tissue that surrounds an area inside the body) in order to relieve the pressure and allow the area to swell without damaging nearby tissue. There is a picture in the wiki link. Although there are medical conditions which could cause a limb to swell so much, I think it is more common after an injury. (I have even audited charts where young adult men took Viagra to party, had the issue of erection lasting > 4 hours, had extensive penile swelling and required a penile fasciotomy. They won't be partying again for a while!)

    I haven't had a chance to look at the links you provided, but I'll see if I have anything to input.

    Regards"

  2. #17
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwntwnslim View Post
    I just heard from cats5vegas, another WS vetted RN about Jane Doe 9098. Here is what cats5vegas had to say:


    "Hello! My nursing background is mostly hospice and auditing. But I am a bit familiar with the fasciotomy procedure.
    Fasciotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I attached a wiki link. A facsiotomy is indicated with a limb has so much swelling that it is too much to be contained within the skin. The doctor makes an incision into the fascia (layer of fibrous tissue that surrounds an area inside the body) in order to relieve the pressure and allow the area to swell without damaging nearby tissue. There is a picture in the wiki link. Although there are medical conditions which could cause a limb to swell so much, I think it is more common after an injury. (I have even audited charts where young adult men took Viagra to party, had the issue of erection lasting > 4 hours, had extensive penile swelling and required a penile fasciotomy. They won't be partying again for a while!)

    I haven't had a chance to look at the links you provided, but I'll see if I have anything to input.

    Regards"
    Go figure. You'd think a 4+ hour erection would be a good thing.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clem Snide View Post
    Go figure. You'd think a 4+ hour erection would be a good thing.
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

  4. #19
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    Oct 2010
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    907
    Here is a link to a very small story about Jane Doe 9098 from The Suffolk Times:

    http://suffolktimes.timesreview.com/...police-news-2/

    To get to the web site for the above link enter the following into the Google search bar:
    The Suffolk Times

    It is the first result on the first page.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    907

    January 2012 MSM Links Re: Jane Doe 9098

    CBS News
    Crimesider
    Do you know this woman? Police release
    composite sketch in Long Island serial killer probe
    By Crimesider Staff
    Jan. 9, 2012
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...-killer-probe/


    Huffington Post
    Long Island Serial Killer Case: Police
    Release Victim Sketch
    By Aman Ali
    1/8/12
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1192666.html


    Gather News
    Long Island Serial Killer Case Update:
    New Sketch of Myster Victim Released
    January 9, 2012
    by Chelsea Hoffman
    http://*****************/viewArticle.a...81474981007370


    Jezebel
    Police Ask for Help Identifying LI Serial Killer Victim
    January 8, 2012
    http://jezebel.com/5874175/police-as...-killer-victim


    Irish Central
    Police release new sketch of one of the Long Island serial killer's victims
    Jan. 10, 2012
    By Bernie Malone, IrishCentral Staff Writer
    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Pol...137005293.html


    All Media NY
    Police Release Sketch of Long Island Serial Killer Victim
    by Stephanie Ortiz
    9 Jan 2012
    http://www.allmediany.com/details_ne...ews_artid=2891

  6. #21
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    Oct 2010
    Posts
    907

    Estimating Jane Doe 9098's Height & Weight

    Oriah posted this in thread 13 regarding Jane Doe 9098:

    “Does anyone know if there is a weight listed anywhere, for the weight of her legs when recovered? It would seem that if surgical scars and suture scars were evident, and they were recovered with soft tissue- that we could get an estimate of overall size/weight or at the very least circumference- which might help in ID? The ME must have this info? Just a thought.”

    Thread 13, pg. 25, post #624
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7537729&postcount=624"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #13[/ame]


    As of today, NamUs has not posted any measurements regarding Jane's overall size/weight. The last update to her her page @ NamUs occurred on 12/21/11.

    But, according to my research, if the ME has Jane's Humerus, her height and weight can be determined. According to the website “Forensic Anthropology” by Terrie Winson, stature is determined using a formula called “Regression Formula for Estimating Maximum Living Stature (with standard errors) from Maximum Long Bone Length” of the Humeras.

    "Stature is determined using the another type of formula called "Regression Formula for Estimating Maximum Living Stature (with standard errors) from Maximum Long Bone Length" of the Humerus5. Optimally, the Forensic Anthropologist will have all 6 upper long bones and all 6 lower long bones. Using the average of both right and left humeri, both right and left ulnae and both right and left radii, along with the average of both right and left tibia, both right and left fibulae and both right and left femurs, including the standard error, one can arrive at a fairly accurate estimation of height. This range is then used to estimate weight. An osteometric board is used for obtaining precise measurements of the long bones. Weight is a function of the stature determination. The end result will be a range of heights and weights based on the average standard error."

    Stature
    3.26 x (humerus) + 62.10 = stature +/-4.43cm
    3.42 x (radius) + 81.56 = stature +/-4.30
    3.26 x (ulna) + 78.29 = stature +/-4.42
    (there will be 2 calculations for stature, based on the upper and lower standard of error)

    Weight
    Wt (in lbs) = 4.4 x (stature in inches) - 143
    (there will be 2 calculations for weight, based on the upper and lower standard of error)


    www.anthro4n6.net/forensics/

    **There is some good general information about Forensic Anthropology at the above linked website. There is information about how Forensic Anthropologists determine sex, race, age and time of death estimates of human skeletal remains.
    Last edited by Dwntwnslim; 02-07-2012 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Change a Word for Clarification; Add Info

  7. #22
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  8. #23
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    kaRN is offline Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clem Snide View Post
    Go figure. You'd think a 4+ hour erection would be a good thing.
    It's reportedly very painful, a medical emergency in fact.

    Regarding the scars. The ME would have photographed any identifying marks. It's strange they wouldn't release an illustration of them considering they could be used to trigger someones memory to identify her. An L shaped scar is rather unique. My son got nicked by a jagged piece of metal door trim on his back and it does have an L appearance. Hmmmm- shins are prone to trauma
    Last edited by kaRN; 02-18-2012 at 12:22 AM.

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

    Copyright that Cindy

    Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Suess

  9. #24
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    Oct 2010
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    907

    Preliminary Assessment by kaRN of Jane Doe 9098's Scars

    I just heard from kaRN, a WS verified nurse, regarding Jane Doe 9098's scars. Here are kaRN's thoughts so far:

    "hi again Dwntwnslim,
    To answer some of your questions just from this pm (I will go to the forum and learn more about the specifics of this case but haven't yet) If the ME differentiated between scars and surgical scars then it's likely the 'scars' were more jagged in nature and may have stemmed from an injury. A fasciotomy is done to relieve pressure on arteries and nerves when there's a break, burn or injury to limbs, fingers or toes (think any tubular body part) If there's swelling to to any of those areas, the swelling can compress arteries and result in death of the tissue. The fascia is a thin but really tough fibrous coating that prevents muscles from rubbing and adhering to each other. (When you cut beef into pieces for stew or whatever it's the transparent thin skin that's tough to cut through) each muscle group is surrounded by fascia as is each organ. There's also a layer between the skin and outermost layer of muscle) A fasciotomy involves cutting the fascia near the injury or break to release the muscle to allow it to swell without compressing most importantly arteries and veins. After swelling has eased, it would be sewn back together but until that happens the wound would be bandaged leaving the surgical incisions gaping. It's done usually in the ER by any emergency Dr or surgeon if one is on hand. In extreme cases a paramedic would be authorized to perform one if there were any immediate risk to the limb ( no pulses in the limb, palor, cold to the touch etc.) and an expected delay in getting to the hospital. They're usually quite long- longer than 3.5 inches but scar tissue doesn't grow or stretch so if the female had a fasciotomy done as a child for a bad break for example, the scar would be proportionate to the length of the limb of the child. I'll start reading but do you know if there were any signs of healed fracture in the limbs they recovered (yikes!)?
    I'll start reading but let me know if that helps or you have any other questions. An emergency fasciotomy would appear rather jagged compared to a surgical scar. I believe the scar on the upper right arm of the female host/judge on Top chef is a fasciotomy scar.

    kaRN


    I also got this from kaRN:

    "Hi again Dwntwnslim,
    I emailed the contact for the case at Namus requesting a photo or a sketch of the scars and explained why. I'm hoping he gets back to me soon and if he does, I'll forward anything he can provide right to you."






    **Thank you kaRN!!**

    **This is a portion of a message posted with kaRN's permission**
    Last edited by Dwntwnslim; 02-19-2012 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Add Sentence

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post


  11. #26
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    People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. ~ Bob Dylan

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat View Post
    there is no mention of leg scars http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/holt_dawn.html

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcgrumpy View Post
    No, but many times details are left out on these missing persons report.
    People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. ~ Bob Dylan

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat View Post
    I thought Dawn Holt resembled Jane Doe 9098 too. But, I think her legs washed up on Fire Island prior to the date she was reported missing. I'll check. Still, maybe the date she was reported missing is not the same date she disappeared?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat View Post
    No, but many times details are left out on these missing persons report.
    I know, but I would think someone would have mentioned it eventually since they do list a scar above her eyebrow and tattoos. JMHO

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