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Thread: MT - Sherry Arnold, 43, Sidney, 7 Jan 2012 - #4

  1. #76
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    I'm having a hard time believing that neither one remembers where she is buried. They went there TWICE - the first time to drop off her body, then went to WM to buy a shovel and drove back there again to bury her. I'm not buying it at all.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~ Aristotle

    The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

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  3. #77
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    I'm not buying it either. Frankly, there's quite a bit about Spell's story I'm not buying. His "poor me, I'm a victim too" routine doesn't work for me.

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  5. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurfieTX View Post
    I'm having a hard time believing that neither one remembers where she is buried. They went there TWICE - the first time to drop off her body, then went to WM to buy a shovel and drove back there again to bury her. I'm not buying it at all.
    I don't buy it either! They're banking on the idea that there's no case w/o a body. We don't know what kind of evidence LE has, but I'm hoping it's enough to get these guys anyway... and maybe one will talk to mitigate sentencing.

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  7. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12Lori21 View Post
    They do have a confession by Spell...I will post a link that shows info stated. Spells girlfriend in Colorado called FBI tip line..So hope they can find her.

    http://www.kxlh.com/files/spell.pdf
    Not to minimize this horrific act of evil...but I am glad that one perp did confess, and that his gf did not protect him. She even went so far as to call the tip line.
    I wish this would happen in more missing babies/persons cases.

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  9. #80
    As I reflect back over this past month after first hearing of this then following the news and websleuth's several things come to mind. 1. I thought it was the general feeling that a basic shovel really would not have been enough to get through the ground to bury Sherry so did they use the shovel they returned to Walmart? Is Spell telling the whole truth? 2. They kidnapped Sherry at 0640 a.m. Sidney time then they arrive at Walmart that evening 15 hours later to buy a shovel? They said they dropped off the body then went back but then they say they had her in the back covered with a blanket while at Lonnie's truckstop which according to the official court docs was right after they left Walmart that evening, the camera saw them at Lonnie's so it seems like all the dots are not connecting totally. I believe there are more missing pieces to this crime. I will not be suprised if the authorities link them to other women's deaths as well. The fact that Waters told Spell not to leave cigarette butts around the burial site, he is well acquainted with Crime. This cold blooded premeditated murder is beyond what I believed would come out in this case in the remote rural town of Sidney Montana. I hope they can find Sherry's body. Perhaps everyone with Camera's (restaurants, gas stations, grocery stores) all will look for the appearance of these men on their camera's on January 7th to get a timeline and location of them from 0640 on. They've got a good start. (Ranger in Sidney picking up on camera 0620ish, IGA on camera, Walmart, Lonnie's) It looks like they went to the strip club while in Williston too. I would check all of the local convenience stores they may have stopped and got coffee, snacks, etc...Sad, Sad findings for the Arnold family and Sidney community. Senseless crimes, Stupid drugs.....What happens to people conscious before the crime? Why couldn't Spell have thought when he first forced her in the vehicle, this is someone's wife, daughter, mother etc..... instead of after he commits the crime, then feels remorse. The damage is done, those men have hurt the lives of so many people.

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  11. #81
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    Video footage shows Waters returning the shovel to Wal-Mart a few days later and Spell was able to identify it as the one they used to bury Arnold, the documents said

    Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/stat...#ixzz1mkUC0s3q
    days later? they disposed of her clothing at lonnies,WHY? I can only think the worst of what they did to this poor woman,my heart just breaks ......They were there twice,and if LE falls for, they were to drugged up to remember , IT BS!! they can march Spells butt back to the spot and show them...........I am angry!!

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  13. #82
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    They know exactly where she is but Im guessing they don't want everyone to know just how sick and sadistic they are. I just can't imagine they kidnapped her "just" to kill her. Ugh. Her poor family

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  15. #83
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    My mom's place is outside of Williston just a little over a mile from Walmart. She has a lot of trees. I think I had better bring my dogs and recheck the place.

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  17. #84
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    Caution: Reading this may make you ANGRY

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  19. #85
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    On the evening of January 7 the weather conditions reported at the Williston airport (adjacent to Walmart) at 9:52 PM were 23 degrees, calm wind, and overcast sky. The sun had set at 5:17, however the nearly full moon had risen at 4:01 PM. Therefore visibility on that night would have been rather good under the moonlight. It likely would have been possible for them to work without flashlights, or at least without using lights very often.

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  21. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiGreen View Post
    They know exactly where she is but Im guessing they don't want everyone to know just how sick and sadistic they are. I just can't imagine they kidnapped her "just" to kill her. Ugh. Her poor family
    It is plausible that Spell may not have known where they were. It does sound like he is trying to dump all the responsibility on Waters, so being able to give authorities a body would be in his favor (unless his involvement was a bit greater than he is stating).

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  23. #87
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    They returned the shovel to Walmart. Spell claims he used it to dig a hole two or three feet deep. I have difficulty imagining how one could dig a two or three foot deep grave in frozen ground without the shovel bearing obvious marks of having been used.

    Does anyone know what Walmart's return policy is on used items?

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  25. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eoanthropus Dawsoni View Post
    They returned the shovel to Walmart. Spell claims he used it to dig a hole two or three feet deep. I have difficulty imagining how one could dig a two or three foot deep grave in frozen ground without the shovel bearing obvious marks of having been used.

    Does anyone know what Walmart's return policy is on used items?
    There is a shovel at Walmart with decomp on it. Wow.

    O/T but this does make you think about the other cases where we have argued that the cadaver dogs are never wrong but sometimes can't fit it in with the rest of the facts.
    Always tell the truth. That way you don't have to remember what you said.--Mark Twain

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  27. #89
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    I do not know if the shovel would have decomp, but I would expect that it would have scratch marks on the scoop and nicks on the edge if it had been used to dig a hole.

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  29. #90
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by HauntsForHope View Post
    Caution: Reading this may make you ANGRY
    I am not sure what happend there, im sorry

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  31. #91
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    [QUOTE=Eoanthropus Dawsoni;7614437]They returned the shovel to Walmart. Spell claims he used it to dig a hole two or three feet deep. I have difficulty imagining how one could dig a two or three foot deep grave in frozen ground without the shovel bearing obvious marks of having been used.

    Does anyone know what Walmart's return policy is on used items?[/QUOTE]

    A friend of mine works there, said that if you have a reciept and is clean, it can be returned......If it had marks on it, it would be in question,on why it was returned(allowed by walmart)......Home of Economy has a policy if Its dirty worn and tags removed even with a recipt no refund or if refunded a restocking fee......kinda odd they would return the shovel, except they needed the money ...... wonder if they did use it? ifso, it had to look good enough for walmart to take it back....I just cant imagine

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  33. #92
    This is not what I wanted to hear. I'm truly saddened for what this family is going through.

    I have some questions/speculations about Spell, and how he was located in Rapid City. Sounds like Spell called his girl friend, in all likelihood, with the cell phone he pilfered from Waters. I imagine after the gf called the hotline, gave the investigators the number to the cell phone Spell was using. I don't know about triangulation on all types of phones, whether that technology is available for a non-contract phone? And if it is, how close can they get with the process? just curious how the located a hitchhiker that quick. The gf may have known exactly where Spell was and it was simply a matter of picking him up.

    I wonder if Spell just rolled over, declining legal council while being detained in Rapid City. If he did, could that be a problem in prosecuting him? Also. I seriously doubt Spell gave up that much information with legal council present. If he was detained in Rapid City, SD, how is it there was no problem transporting him back to ND, no need to extradite? If he volunteered to go back, I'd think he'd cooperate in revealing the burial place. And why back to ND, instead of Montana?

    If law enforcement had the info that Sherry is buried within a time measurable distance [10 minutes out, one hour out, etc] of the Walmart in Willeston, what's with the wide spread search? The cops got everything out of Spell they needed, I can't believe they forgot to ask him where they buried her. He'd know if it was 10 minutes or two hours out form the Walmart. He was there at least twice. As they approached Williston, how hard would it have been to simply say "show us where"? Just trying to connect the dots.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 02-18-2012 at 07:39 PM. Reason: Added content

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  35. #93
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    Thinking out loud, There's the possibility his lawyer told him to stop talking and hold out for negotiating purposes, and not to lead them to her body, in exchange for taking the death the penalty off the table completely.

    There's also the possibility as others have suggested, that he has really only provided half truths so far, for sympathy or a deal, and doesn't want them to see what they actually did to her.

    If they only killed her, then why didn't she have her clothes on?
    Last edited by BabyB; 02-18-2012 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Typo

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  37. #94
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    Thinking out loud, There's the possibility his lawyer told him to stop talking and hold out for negotiating purposes, and not to lead them to her body, in exchange for taking the death the penalty off the table completely
    resp. snipped by me

    If his lawyer told him not to reveal where the body is, that, to me, is almost criminal ! Also, why would they take the risk to kidnap a woman just to strangle her at once ? Seems like whatever happened to this poor lady is something we don't even want to know.
    My condolences to Sherrys' family and friends.

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  39. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurfieTX View Post
    I'm having a hard time believing that neither one remembers where she is buried. They went there TWICE - the first time to drop off her body, then went to WM to buy a shovel and drove back there again to bury her. I'm not buying it at all.
    One possibility is that Spell is deliberately withholding the location of her body, for reasons unknown (maybe to use in plea bargaining?).

    The other possibility is that with the alcohol and crack consumption, his memory really is fried on the details.

    I think it could go either way.

    I do think that Spell was not the brightest bulb on the string and was easily manipulated by Waters. It sounds like as soon as he parted ways with Waters and was on his own, he started telling his GF and family about what had happened.

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  41. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eoanthropus Dawsoni View Post
    They returned the shovel to Walmart. Spell claims he used it to dig a hole two or three feet deep. I have difficulty imagining how one could dig a two or three foot deep grave in frozen ground without the shovel bearing obvious marks of having been used.

    Does anyone know what Walmart's return policy is on used items?
    I'm wondering if the hole he dug was really that keep. If you throw the dirt from a hole right next to the hole, it makes the hole look deeper than it actually is, particularly at night. To some guy who was probably high and/or drunk? May have only been a few inches deep.

    In any case, I don't know the official Wal-Mart policy but I know that in the Wal-Mart here, so long as the item to be returned is still usable, they will usually accept it.

    It seems to depend on just who is working the return counter at the time--some clerks are more lenient than others. Also, if you go in when it's busy, the clerk is more likely to just accept the return rather than take time if a line has formed.

    I've seen some stuff returned that looked pretty used and thought "no way!" but been surprised.

    And I've learned to look carefully at anything I buy from Wal-Mart from getting something home and then discovering that it was missing parts or instruction sheets (obviously, had been returned and re-stocked).

    All this is part of why we only shop Wal-Mart for stuff that we can absolutely not get anywhere else in town.

    Just sign me "Not a fan of Wal-Mart"
    Last edited by GrainneDhu; 02-18-2012 at 09:49 PM.

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  43. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnoliaMom View Post
    There is a shovel at Walmart with decomp on it. Wow.

    O/T but this does make you think about the other cases where we have argued that the cadaver dogs are never wrong but sometimes can't fit it in with the rest of the facts.
    I'm not seeing how the shovel would have decomp on it since it was used to open the grave and then fill it again. Maybe if they used it as a lever to roll her body into the grave?

    As for cadaver dogs never being wrong, I'm sorry, I disagree. They are not infallible and no responsible handler would ever claim they are. Humans are not infallible either and humans are the ones doing the training and interpretation of the dog's actions. Plenty of room for fallibility there.

    Which is not to say that dogs (SAR, HRD and even just ol' Fido in the living room who has never found anything more important than his dinner dish) aren't amazing creatures. They really are terrific.

    Just not infallible.

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  45. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by LietKynes View Post
    If his lawyer told him not to reveal where the body is, that, to me, is almost criminal ! Also, why would they take the risk to kidnap a woman just to strangle her at once ? Seems like whatever happened to this poor lady is something we don't even want to know.
    My condolences to Sherrys' family and friends.
    A lawyer's job is to look out for the best interests of their client. Spell's lawyer cannot ethically advise Spell to do something intended primarily to benefit the Arnold family.

    It sucks when you look at it that way but when you look at what happens in countries that do not give defendants rigorous legal rights... well, I personally prefer the US system and I would be afraid to even visit a country that does not offer strong legal rights to defendants.

    The story isn't completely implausible to me. If she had continued fighting when in the vehicle, then it would make sense to a perpetrator to try to subdue her by choking her.

    There's a very fine line between choking to unconsciousness and choking to death. People high on crack are not noted for their good judgment or restraint.

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  47. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by LietKynes View Post
    Thinking out loud, There's the possibility his lawyer told him to stop talking and hold out for negotiating purposes, and not to lead them to her body, in exchange for taking the death the penalty off the table completely
    resp. snipped by me

    If his lawyer told him not to reveal where the body is, that, to me, is almost criminal ! Also, why would they take the risk to kidnap a woman just to strangle her at once ? Seems like whatever happened to this poor lady is something we don't even want to know.
    My condolences to Sherrys' family and friends.
    I know the lawyer who represented Spell while he was in North Dakota's custody. He is a decent man and an ex prosecutor.

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  49. #100
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    SmoothOperator is online now Sadly what connects all these puzzles is that there's a victim@the heart of each
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    Tragic news and horrific.. Sorry but I feel zero sympathy for spell.. Moo but it's glaringly obvious that the reason for Sherry body still not found is due to the fact that without a shadow of a doubt that Spell and waters both raped Sherry and know that an autopsy will easily show this along with likely have dna collected from her remains which will directly tie them both to the sexual attack...

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