1064 users online (209 members and 855 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    7,618

    Is The Location A Smoking Gun?

    To determine the actual location of Jonbenet's death, may allow the selection of a more likely WDI.

    The staging allows you to decide a WDI mostly but not wholly upon where she met her death.
    So you can have PDI, AEADI,upstairs, or BDI, IDI downstairs, then shoehorn the surrounding evidence to fit, because it really does. So the staging tends to partition the WDI's.

    There are some facts, that are not bound by a WDI, e.g. the Pineapple, the Paintbrush, the Nightdress, the size 12 Panties, The Torch. And the more contentious: Burkes remarks on the 911 call "What did you find".

    The Pineapple tells us JonBenet was awake and alive approx 12.30am, or later, in the company of someone she trusted.

    The Paintbrush tells us its role in the asphyxiation, which is likely to be located firmly in the basement.

    The Nightdress tells us someone had to involuntarly stop the staging at some point, the intention had been to leave JonBenet in her night clothes, suggesting removal from her bed.

    The Torch tells us, someone involved in her death, forensically cleaned that torch. Why was it used at all, there are lights in the basement?

    The size 12 Panties tells us, Jonbenet never put these on, she was dressed in those by someone unversed in selecting female underwear in a hurry. I assume * upstairs * in JonBenet's room she will have had a drawer full of underwear reflecting her personality and age.

    Some of these "facts" tend to make some WDI's more credible than others. e.g. AEADI: The use of the paintbrush is explained by its prior use as part of a AEA device, evidenced by fibers in the bed upstairs. But who in the household would ignore other close to hand tools, and saunter down to the basement, have a eureka moment, then casually break and destroy, a useful tool belonging to the the lady of the house?

    So either she was killed upstairs or in the basement. Whichever you choose tends to influence your choice of WDI. BlueCrab has invoked AEA to explain the incongruity of the paintbrush from downstairs killing her upstairs! But an adult tutor is missing from this WDI, even the grand jury, chooses to ignore this aspect.

    If BDI upstairs or downstairs why is he asking "What did you find?". And if the rationale for the staging is the snowfall, why did the same snowfall not deter the other asumed 3rd party from leaving with some forensic evidence?

    So I "think" JonBenet was physically restrained prior to her death, possibly by the use of some ad-hoc device, which kept her hands away from her body, and her neck upright, this device such as an improvised harness, or household item may have caused the pressure point marks, which are also consistent with a stun gun. The use of the Paintbrush suggests this took place somewhere in the basement.

    So it appears JonBenet was taking part in some form of sadistic ritual within the basement. She may have been roped upside down, with some cord forming a harness around her ankles and waist area. Those pressure point marks reflecting the affect of gravity by the harness or roping. But there was a serious mis-calculation, and an accident, possibly she swung down in mid-air her head hitting something, inadvertently causing a * hidden * trauma, and the complexity of the roping prevents her rapid extrication. She expires!

    The perpetrator is shocked and astounded this was not meant to happen. Possibly she is left hanging, the door blocked with obstacles. How can it be explained away, certainly not by an accident. The perpetrator returns and some roping is removed, the device dismantled, she is cleaned up, her naked body redressed, placed in a blanket, a kidnap and ransom note scenario is agreed and planned, but then the snowfall rules that out.


    From hereon there are ad-hoc changes to the plan, the perpetrator keeps remembering possible pieces of damaging evidence, and returns to remove them, or improves upon the staging, even re-positioning the original pose, and adding *different* bindings etc. Later as the body has still not been discovered, more artifacts are added to the body, such as tape around the mouth. Possibly the garrotte knotting is refashioned to appear as an AEA. Yet again later still, she is moved from her original location along with her nightdress to the wine cellar, and is readied to be redressed again, but circumstance prevents this and she is discovered where she was.


    The paintbrush suggests to me that she was killed in the basement, and her nightdress implies she was to have been thought as having travelled from upstairs to downstairs. Portrayed and staged as the act of a sexually sadistic perpatrator, so to encompass those elements that could not be changed, rather than that of a financially motivated kidnapper since JonBenet was now dead.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,599
    What does the W in WDI stand for? woman? Whites? George W?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy
    To determine the actual location of Jonbenet's death, may allow the selection of a more likely WDI.

    The staging allows you to decide a WDI mostly but not wholly upon where she met her death.
    So you can have PDI, AEADI,upstairs, or BDI, IDI downstairs, then shoehorn the surrounding evidence to fit, because it really does. So the staging tends to partition the WDI's.

    There are some facts, that are not bound by a WDI, e.g. the Pineapple, the Paintbrush, the Nightdress, the size 12 Panties, The Torch. And the more contentious: Burkes remarks on the 911 call "What did you find".

    The Pineapple tells us JonBenet was awake and alive approx 12.30am, or later, in the company of someone she trusted.

    The Paintbrush tells us its role in the asphyxiation, which is likely to be located firmly in the basement.

    The Nightdress tells us someone had to involuntarly stop the staging at some point, the intention had been to leave JonBenet in her night clothes, suggesting removal from her bed.

    The Torch tells us, someone involved in her death, forensically cleaned that torch. Why was it used at all, there are lights in the basement?

    The size 12 Panties tells us, Jonbenet never put these on, she was dressed in those by someone unversed in selecting female underwear in a hurry. I assume * upstairs * in JonBenet's room she will have had a drawer full of underwear reflecting her personality and age.

    Some of these "facts" tend to make some WDI's more credible than others. e.g. AEADI: The use of the paintbrush is explained by its prior use as part of a AEA device, evidenced by fibers in the bed upstairs. But who in the household would ignore other close to hand tools, and saunter down to the basement, have a eureka moment, then casually break and destroy, a useful tool belonging to the the lady of the house?

    So either she was killed upstairs or in the basement. Whichever you choose tends to influence your choice of WDI. BlueCrab has invoked AEA to explain the incongruity of the paintbrush from downstairs killing her upstairs! But an adult tutor is missing from this WDI, even the grand jury, chooses to ignore this aspect.

    If BDI upstairs or downstairs why is he asking "What did you find?". And if the rationale for the staging is the snowfall, why did the same snowfall not deter the other asumed 3rd party from leaving with some forensic evidence?

    So I "think" JonBenet was physically restrained prior to her death, possibly by the use of some ad-hoc device, which kept her hands away from her body, and her neck upright, this device such as an improvised harness, or household item may have caused the pressure point marks, which are also consistent with a stun gun. The use of the Paintbrush suggests this took place somewhere in the basement.

    So it appears JonBenet was taking part in some form of sadistic ritual within the basement. She may have been roped upside down, with some cord forming a harness around her ankles and waist area. Those pressure point marks reflecting the affect of gravity by the harness or roping. But there was a serious mis-calculation, and an accident, possibly she swung down in mid-air her head hitting something, inadvertently causing a * hidden * trauma, and the complexity of the roping prevents her rapid extrication. She expires!

    The perpetrator is shocked and astounded this was not meant to happen. Possibly she is left hanging, the door blocked with obstacles. How can it be explained away, certainly not by an accident. The perpetrator returns and some roping is removed, the device dismantled, she is cleaned up, her naked body redressed, placed in a blanket, a kidnap and ransom note scenario is agreed and planned, but then the snowfall rules that out.


    From hereon there are ad-hoc changes to the plan, the perpetrator keeps remembering possible pieces of damaging evidence, and returns to remove them, or improves upon the staging, even re-positioning the original pose, and adding *different* bindings etc. Later as the body has still not been discovered, more artifacts are added to the body, such as tape around the mouth. Possibly the garrotte knotting is refashioned to appear as an AEA. Yet again later still, she is moved from her original location along with her nightdress to the wine cellar, and is readied to be redressed again, but circumstance prevents this and she is discovered where she was.


    The paintbrush suggests to me that she was killed in the basement, and her nightdress implies she was to have been thought as having travelled from upstairs to downstairs. Portrayed and staged as the act of a sexually sadistic perpatrator, so to encompass those elements that could not be changed, rather than that of a financially motivated kidnapper since JonBenet was now dead.


    UKGuy,

    You have several very good points worth pondering. Here's some comments, opinions, and questions:

    o I guess WDI means Who Did It.

    o Burke likely asked "What did you find?" because it's the only way he could have phrased the question in regard to whether the parents had found JonBenet. For instance, if he had asked "Did you find JonBenet's body?" it would have revealed to his parents that he had been involved.

    o The torch (flashlight) would have been needed when the perps were ready to take the body outside into the darkness to plant it, probably in someone's backyard. The surprise dusting of snow terminated that plan, leaving the perps with a body AND a ransom note in the house.

    o The "third party", if you are referring to the fifth person in the house that night, probably left by bicycle. There are bike tracks in the snow acros s the Ramsey's front lawn. He appears to have taken Patsy's new bicycle she had gotten that Christmas from John. The bike was missing, but later returned.

    JMO

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    .
    http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

    Before we consider the "SNOW" , can we consider the above article.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    230
    According to the weather archives from Boulder, there was no snowfall on the 25th or 26th, so the snow left on the ground was from a previous snowfall and the side of the house where the window is, there is barely any snow seen at all, making me think it melted on that side of the house before the other snow seen in pictures did.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    Yes, and although the nights were cold ,the day temps reached into the fifties. If ,as some suggest, there was a dusting that night, it would prove nothing, a dusting could have occurred after the murder.
    imo

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    If we realize the snow is a non-issue, could we move to the method of entry?
    Several windows and at least one door were unlocked according to police reports.
    BTW BC, Dan Hoffman did not get involved in the early days, his information was from BPD NOTES..and we do now know Steve wrote down much third hand information.
    Eight months after its initial investigation into the high profile murder of six-year-old Jon Benčt Ramsey, the City of Boulder hired a panel of three attorneys, including Dan, as consultants to the Boulder Police Department.
    You were suggesting BONITA worked for this man, correct??

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    .
    http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

    Before we consider the "SNOW" , can we consider the above article.

    Sissi,

    Please read my lips. SNOW MELTS!!!!

    The official weather report for the 26th was A DUSTING OF SNOW that night. The temperatures dipped to 8 degrees before it warmed up later in the morning.

    There are numerous accounts of the light dusting of snow falling that night. Even John Ramsey said it snowed. From the 1998 police interviews:

    JOHN RAMSEY: "There was no snow at all when we came in. I got up the next morning and looked out. The sky was sort of breaking up. It looked like some evidence of some snow in the trees, so it had snowed a little bit."

    On page 12 of PMPT pb re' Larry Mason being informed of the kidnapping:

    "Light snow was on the ground when Mason left his home in Lyons for the 25-minute drive to police headquarters in Boulder."

    Sissi, you're from Maryland, just like I used to be, and snow melts in Maryland just as it does in Colorado. So you know better than to be snookered by those fraudulent pictures taken in the middle of the day showing "proof" there was no snow that night when the cops arrived at 6 A.M.

    JMO

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    Arndt and Patterson arrived at approximately 8:10 a.m. and were met by French. Also already on the scene were Boulder Crime Scene investigators Barry Weiss and Sue Barcklow. Weiss was photographing the interior and exterior of the residence, and Barcklow was attempting to obtain latent finger prints. Two victim advocates, dispatched from the Boulder police department, were with the Ramseys, trying to give comfort to the victimized
    parents.

    I got this from the "bonita" papers. Where I also "got" that Richenbach is the cop who said there were no footprints in the snow. He arrived after French and White and Fernie. ...hmmmm

    Have you read these papers in their entirety..lot's of "stuff" I can "use".

    Patrol Sgt. Reichenbach, responding to the call to go to the 15th
    Street address, passed a time and temperature sign in a mall parking lot on his way to the Ramsey home. The temperature in Boulder that morning was 9 degrees. A light dusting of snow lay sprinkled on the ground, mostly visible on the neighborhood lawns. Upon his arrival at the residence Reichenbach conducted a brief inspection of the outside of the premises. In addition to the newly fallen snow, portions of the yard were covered with one or two inches of crusty snow from a prior snowfall. He noted that no footprints were visible in the new snow that adhered to the grass and pavement areas surrounding the house nor in the old snow still remaining.

    Does this make anyone else think that all of the others levitated in, it would be "boulder's way". Or is there a remote possibility this guy was either poor in his observational skills, or perhaps, it didn't snow until after 6:30? Oh..this gets so confusing, and me without a rudder

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    Arndt and Patterson arrived at approximately 8:10 a.m. and were met by French. Also already on the scene were Boulder Crime Scene investigators Barry Weiss and Sue Barcklow. Weiss was photographing the interior and exterior of the residence, and Barcklow was attempting to obtain latent finger prints. Two victim advocates, dispatched from the Boulder police department, were with the Ramseys, trying to give comfort to the victimized
    parents.

    I got this from the "bonita" papers. Where I also "got" that Richenbach is the cop who said there were no footprints in the snow. He arrived after French and White and Fernie. ...hmmmm

    Have you read these papers in their entirety..lot's of "stuff" I can "use".

    Patrol Sgt. Reichenbach, responding to the call to go to the 15th
    Street address, passed a time and temperature sign in a mall parking lot on his way to the Ramsey home. The temperature in Boulder that morning was 9 degrees. A light dusting of snow lay sprinkled on the ground, mostly visible on the neighborhood lawns. Upon his arrival at the residence Reichenbach conducted a brief inspection of the outside of the premises. In addition to the newly fallen snow, portions of the yard were covered with one or two inches of crusty snow from a prior snowfall. He noted that no footprints were visible in the new snow that adhered to the grass and pavement areas surrounding the house nor in the old snow still remaining.

    Does this make anyone else think that all of the others levitated in, it would be "boulder's way". Or is there a remote possibility this guy was either poor in his observation skills, or perhaps, it didn't snow until after 6:30? Oh..this gets so confusing, and me without a rudder

    Sissi,

    Good for you girl. You're about 3/4 there. To clear up your final question about why people didn't leave footprints in the snow after about 6:30 or 7:00 A.M. Answer: THE SNOW MELTED BY THEN, even before the sun came up. Are you now satisfied, or do I have to splash some Chesapeake Bay water into your face to get rid of your confusion? (We don't have any kippers.)

    JMO


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Sissi,

    Good for you girl. You're about 3/4 there. To clear up your final question about why people didn't leave footprints in the snow after about 6:30 or 7:00 A.M. Answer: THE SNOW MELTED BY THEN, even before the sun came up. Are you now satisfied, or do I have to splash some Chesapeake Bay water into your face to get rid of your confusion? (We don't have any kippers.)

    JMO
    Well now, Richenbach noted on his way to the Ramseys the temp registering 9 degrees. He did say he wondered why there were no foot prints in the "new light dusting", however did he realize he was walking in on a party? Does Boulder use celsius ? Convert it..48.2? Then I can buy melting!
    kippers? no...but I do steam my own blue crabs with beer ,kosher salt and old bay

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,389

    Did I hear

    Kipper?

    I have a beaut right here which I'd be happy to reserve for sissi.... The kipper season wasn't too good this summer. I had to empty my tanks whilst we had some major building works done. However, we're almost up and running again and I just took delivery of some excellent breeding stock last week.

    Slappy slappy slap ;-)
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    78
    I belive when Burke is heard to say "What did you find?" he was refering to the ransom note.
    This is my honest opinion only!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    Well now, Richenbach noted on his way to the Ramseys the temp registering 9 degrees. He did say he wondered why there were no foot prints in the "new light dusting", however did he realize he was walking in on a party? Does Boulder use celsius ? Convert it..48.2? Then I can buy melting!
    kippers? no...but I do steam my own blue crabs with beer ,kosher salt and old bay

    Sissi,

    No, Boulder doesn't use celsius. Boulder is still in the U.S.A. last time I looked.

    I think I've found your problem -- too much beer in the pot while steaming the crabs. Save the beer. Try just Old Bay and rock salt, then with a clear mind see if you can figure out why snow melts. (Keep the beer ice cold until I get there.)

    JMO

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Firstpage
    I belive when Burke is heard to say "What did you find?" he was refering to the ransom note.

    Firstpage,

    Perhaps, but I don't think so. The enhanced 911 call lets us know Burke was nearby while his mom was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher. He could hear her telling the dispatcher there was a ransom note, and he could plainly see the note on the floor as John was studying it.

    IMO Burke was wanting to know for sure whether or not his parents had found JonBenet's body, but he couldn't come right out and ask it without giving himself away.

    JMO

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast