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Thread: CLUES: how to find Susan

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    CLUES: how to find Susan

    This thread is for gathering clues on how to find Susan. Last night on the radio show, the one thing Kiirsi asked was that we find Susan. We promised to help her, so here we go!

    If anyone lives in the area and can assist us in understanding the geography, that would be awesome.

    [ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=west+valley+city+utah&hl=en&ll=40.691052,-112.000122&spn=1.116246,2.705383&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.273371,86.572266&hnear=West+Vall ey+City,+Salt+Lake,+Utah&t=h&z=9"]west valley city utah - Google Maps[/ame]
    Last edited by Kimster; 02-09-2012 at 02:44 AM. Reason: added map for easy reference
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    One clue that I've taken from the evil event of last Sunday is that now we KNOW that JP was a calculating murderer.

    Kiirsi mentioned on one of our radio shows a few months ago that Susan was ill before she went missing and led us to think she might have been poisoned. I don't know if that will help us, but if we can find any articles about his activities the days before the "camping trip", that might be useful.
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    Not an early article, and not new news, but the boys saying mommy's in the mine, mommy went looking for crystals. The crystals may be the only part that is close to where she could be, not the mine. Did she have a friend named crystal? Was their a place near by that had any crystal looking rocks or debris other than the already searched mine? Was there a store that sold crystals between home and the snowy overnight camp sight?

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/S...138778774.html

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

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    The times that we have searched we started at the house on Sarah Ct. and went out from there. Redwood was a road that we took, north and south, looking for any places that would be a dumping ground. To those looking, when you find purple, red or orange ribbons tied to trees, stakes, guardrails or rock outcroppings anywhere from Rt. 6 out into the desert, those are places searched. There were several individuals and groups who went out from the beginning and since [we were there 3 weeks ago searching], we all, though dong this seperately, left the ties behind. I also suggest the middle canyon area, starting at Tooele's Ivy road by the golf course, when the road is open again.

    Follow your intuition; if you have a hunch, follow it. BE SAFE, not all of the places are flat, level land, in the warmer weather there will be snakes and scorpons. Let someone know where you are, there is not always cell coverage. If you have a GPS use it.

    ETA: NO ONE WHO IS NOT PHYSICALLY ABLE OR MENTALLY ABLE TO SEARCH SHOULD DO SO. IT ISN'T A PICNIC, IT IS RUGGED LAND. DO NOT SEARCH IF YOU HAVE NEVER DONE SEARCHES BEFORE AND DO NOT GO ALONE!
    Last edited by Jacie Estes; 02-07-2012 at 01:06 PM.

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    Can anyone give a quick recap of what is known about his actions in that time period? Where exactly were they supposedly camping again? Were the police ever able to get cell records? Were there any sightings of him in those days that we are privy too?

    Also, we should look at this from a profile perspective. In other crimes where a wife has been "disappeared" by a husband, what similarities might there be?

    For example, mothers who kill their children are more likely to dispose of the children close to home, and more likely to place them in enclosed "womb like" environments. Even though ICA was exonerated, the circumstances of how and where Caylee was found were consistent with typical methods of disposal used in maternal filicide cases.

    So based on what we can tell, would JP have made any attempts to conceal the body? Would he have buried her or placed her in a cave? How far from home are the victims typically found? Do they commonly cross state lines or do they stay more local?

    This is pure conjecture, but I don't think he would have necessarily felt the need to find the spot again. I don't see him as the type of killer who would want to revisit his crime. I think the husbands who kill like this want to completely erase the victim as if she never existed.

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    Please, to those of you who are able to help search, stay safe.

    Please.


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    We didn't hear any more about the wood/ashes that the HR dogs alerted on, did we? With Josh using fire to destroy evidence of the murders/suicide this time, he might have done it to destroy evidence of the first murder, too.


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    The 'crystals' statement from the boy(s) along with the info about her being 'in the trunk' and not returning at the camp site --- is where I'd start if I were looking. He really could not have carried her far. My only fear is that if he did burn her (or attempt to), then he may have packed up all the ashes, etc, and moved them and disposed of them elsewhere.
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    My posts are meant to help think through possibilities and are strictly an additional opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error. Please understand that much of what is happening is merely brainstorming during unfortunate events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    The 'crystals' statement from the boy(s) along with the info about her being 'in the trunk' and not returning at the camp site --- is where I'd start if I were looking. He really could not have carried her far. My only fear is that if he did burn her (or attempt to), then he may have packed up all the ashes, etc, and moved them and disposed of them elsewhere.
    There are also places with drops of 100ft where he could have rolled her over the edge and she would not been seen.

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    I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that a body could not be reduced to ashes by a regular fire. It would take a very very hot fire a long time to do that. My guess is that he placed her somewhere. And since it was cold and VERY dark it probably is close to a car accessible area. JMO

    Are there statistics about people who dump their victims? ie how far from crime, how far from road, etc. I think an upthread poster mentioned this same topic.


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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    The 'crystals' statement from the boy(s) along with the info about her being 'in the trunk' and not returning at the camp site --- is where I'd start if I were looking. He really could not have carried her far. My only fear is that if he did burn her (or attempt to), then he may have packed up all the ashes, etc, and moved them and disposed of them elsewhere.
    It makes me think of cave. Not the mine, they searched the mine already, I hope thoroughly. I would check caves.

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

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    IMO, since it was freezing cold and the middle of the night and he had two children waiting on him, wherever she is is a place that he's familiar with, where he knows the area, where the mines and drop-offs are, etc. Where dud they camp before as a family? Otherwise, if he just picked a random spot then I feel she is out in the open, somewhere rather obvious.
    I wonder, if her murder was indeed premeditated, if he didn't research a spot. I've kinda though maybe that's why they searched in Ely, because maybe they found a google search for the mines.
    Occam's Razor: It's not a product made by Gillette.

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    I don't mean to be graphic but after what this SOB just did to his own KIDS. If he wanted to male sure no one ever found her. Mght have once again went back and used gasoline hoping she would burn to just bones.
    TYBEE U WILL ALWAYS BE MISSED AND LOVED.


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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    The 'crystals' statement from the boy(s) along with the info about her being 'in the trunk' and not returning at the camp site --- is where I'd start if I were looking. He really could not have carried her far. My only fear is that if he did burn her (or attempt to), then he may have packed up all the ashes, etc, and moved them and disposed of them elsewhere.
    I hear the word "Mine"...is there a way to locate all of the mines within a certain proximity of where he was thought to have been camping?

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    I don't know, but when I googled crystal and caves in Utah I got a result for some caves near Gandy, Utah. I know the Ely area was searched, and this is not too far from there. Does anyone know if there were searches in or near Gandy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    I don't know, but when I googled crystal and caves in Utah I got a result for some caves near Gandy, Utah. I know the Ely area was searched, and this is not too far from there. Does anyone know if there were searches in or near Gandy?
    IDK, I do know he put 1000 miles on the rental car, so he went 500 one way, and 500 back. That is a lot of territory. Unless he was just driving around town aimlessly, which would not amount to 1000 miles, maybe a few give or take for in town stuff, but somewhere around 500 each way.

    The night Susan was reported missing, and he said they went camping (in the van) was a Sunday and iirc, he and the boys did not return until Tuesday. What did they do for 2 days and how far did they go?

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

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    That desert is so vast. I hope his dad will tell LE where she is if he has any idea.

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  27. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 21merc7 View Post
    IDK, I do know he put 1000 miles on the rental car, so he went 500 one way, and 500 back. That is a lot of territory. Unless he was just driving around town aimlessly, which would not amount to 1000 miles, maybe a few give or take for in town stuff, but somewhere around 500 each way.

    The night Susan was reported missing, and he said they went camping (in the van) was a Sunday and iirc, he and the boys did not return until Tuesday. What did they do for 2 days and how far did they go?
    Very true! She may not even be in Utah.

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    *This is complete speculation and brainstorming*

    I have not read through all the details but have tried to keep up. Have the whereabouts of SP been verified for those few days of "camping". I think knowing his whereabout would help tremendously especially since he has been named a POI
    That said..
    * IMO*what if SP met JP somewhere in the desert and she wasnt disposed of at that time. Maybe SP she was drugged as someone earlier said. I wont say my entire thoughts but I cant help but to believe that SP's pics doent somehow play into this whole senerio*
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    I thought I remembered this statement from Josh, much earlier in the case. I just found reference to it in a newer article.

    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/missi...-s-in-the-mine

    according to a report on CNN's Nancy Grace Show, airing Oct. 7, Powell's husband, Josh, once told a friend that a mineshaft would be the best place to dispose of a body.



    You add in the fact that there was 'rumor' of Josh purchasing a large quantity of plastic type drop clothes, he may have killed her in the home, wrapped her in the plastic to transport her, temporarily placed her somewhere the night of the camping trip and went back when he had the car rental, so that he could move her to a more (hidden) appropriate place for her not to be discovered.

    Oh, and let's not forget he DID purchase, was it propane? He said it was for their camping heater.

    After the house explosion, it leads me to believe that those red hands he had the days AFTER Susan disappeared, was more than likely injuries received during the body disposal. IMHO, he may have burned her body first, then placed her in a mind shaft.

    So, if they're able to locate her, they may just feel it was a camp fire? Not realizing there was a body. Or if she's in a mind shaft, IF she was burned, could be ashes floated down.

    I know it's not where to look, but from what I recall from the beginning, possibly what to look for, which may give a hint of more direction to search and what to search for.

    JMHO
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    I'm thinking Josh would have taken Susan somewhere he was familiar with, somewhere he had been to in the past, possibly an abandoned mine and I'm thinking it probably wasn't in the State of Utah, I'm just not sure how familiar he was with Utah. But he would certainly be familiar with places between WA State and West Valley City, UT, wouldn't he? Baker City, OR is about 472 mi. from West Valley City, UT, which would account for the near 1000 miles on the rental car (round trip) and there are many abandoned mines in or near Baker City, OR. http://mines.findthedata.org/search/city/Baker+City

    All jmo of course

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    In regards to burning a body to ashes, I do not think it is possible to do with a regular type of campfire. This article about cremation http://science.howstuffworks.com/cremation.htm says that temperatures during cremation reach 2000 Fahrenheit. That reduces the tissue to an ash like consistency, but the bones need to be ground up, which results in something akin to gravel. It also takes 2-3 hours at this temperature.

    According to these campfire guidelines http://www.windsorfire.com/divisions...ety-guidelines "The average campfire can get as hot as 500C (932F) in as little as 3 hrs."

    Based on that info, I would conclude that a campfire would not be hot enough to burn a body until it was ashes. There would be identifiable bones, which would be charred but still look like human bones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljczec View Post
    In regards to burning a body to ashes, I do not think it is possible to do with a regular type of campfire. This article about cremation http://science.howstuffworks.com/cremation.htm says that temperatures during cremation reach 2000 Fahrenheit. That reduces the tissue to an ash like consistency, but the bones need to be ground up, which results in something akin to gravel. It also takes 2-3 hours at this temperature.

    According to these campfire guidelines http://www.windsorfire.com/divisions...ety-guidelines "The average campfire can get as hot as 500C (932F) in as little as 3 hrs."

    Based on that info, I would conclude that a campfire would not be hot enough to burn a body until it was ashes. There would be identifiable bones, which would be charred but still look like human bones.
    You are correct, a campfire will not destroy bones. Even if he went back and lit it again. If he went back, which I think he did, he moved her, or buried the remains.

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

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    As far as I know, we have never heard about Steven Powell's whereabouts during the time Susan disappeared. I have always wondered if JP panicked and SP met him halfway between the UT and WA homes.

    I also think we need to look back to what we know about the miles on the rental car. I don't think it was 1000, but rather several hundred.

    I also agree fire was involved - and his hands being red are because of it.

    From wikipedia: Flame temperatures of common items include a blow torch – which can burn usually up to around 1,600 C (2,900 F), a candle at 1,400 C (2,600 F),[5] a propane torch at 1,995 C (3,620 F), or a much hotter oxyacetylene combustion at 3,000 C (5,400 F). Cyanogen produces an even hotter flame with a temperature of over 4,525 C (8,180 F) when it burns in oxygen.[6]

    I remember talking about the large amounts of plastic wrap type stuff he bought - was that confirmed?

    Why the !@#$ wasn't he tailed in the rental car??!



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    Quote Originally Posted by 21merc7 View Post
    You are correct, a campfire will not destroy bones. Even if he went back and lit it again. If he went back, which I think he did, he moved her, or buried the remains.
    I am confused as to the boys saying that mommie was in the trunk. But, we are referring here to a van. There is no trunk in a van. Maybe it wasn't the night of the camp out, but at a later date. Is the date she went missing for sure the date he reported? I also think it is strange he moved out of his house so quickly. Maybe ashes, body parts, etc. are still there buried somewhere. Just throwing out thoughts.

    Did he own the home they were living in when she went missing?
    Last edited by mck16; 02-07-2012 at 06:00 PM. Reason: add a question
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