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Thread: PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #9

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by and nothing but View Post
    perhaps we all KNOW less than we think we know.
    You could be right. What we don't know is the truth. And I'm convinced the truth doesn't live in Happy Valley. jmo
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  3. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    Yes. We've discussed voluntary walkaway for years with no clear- cut motive known to us. Unless Ray Gricar was in a very rare fugue state mentally, HE knew why he left, if he left, but we don't know.
    If he left.


    I think it is extremely short- sighted and vengeful to say that Ray Gricar's legacy in office will be his failure to prosecute Sandusky. I will never hold the opinion of him held by one of the newer posters in Mr. Gricar's case ( probably brought here by the Sandusky cases).
    I think will be part of it. Sandusky is the biggest case to ever hit Centre County and to ever be dealt with by Ray Gricar.

    In the summer of 2010, I wrote:

    The true legacy of Mr. Gricar, some of which can only be seen in hindsight, is that he was a good administrator, an innovative district attorney, and a prosecutor who would pursue even difficult cases in the interest of justice, not for his own political interests or to puff up his record.

    http://www.centredaily.com/2010/08/2...#storylink=cpy

    I still believe that. However, that isn't what happened in 1998.

    I do have another concern, this in not directed at you, but I've seen it some places. We can't be more concerned about his legacy that about what happened to him, especially if the cause of his disappearance was foul play.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  5. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    First, there was more evidence in 1998, and additional victim, B. K, who couldn't testify before the grand jury, because he was in the military.

    Even a failed prosecution, or a plea bargain, would have probably protected several of the victims, but not all of them. Some of them predate the incident.

    It was a [b]mistake[/i], a horrible, and colossal mistake. It may be related to his disappearance or something random. Maybe we'll find out it was more than a mistake, or a colossal collapse of judgment, but the evidence is there at this point.

    This is part of the legacy of Ray Gricar, but to be balanced, it is not the entire legacy. I've looked at his cases, both before and after 11/5/11. Every time I look, I see him, often personally, trying difficult cases, sometimes high profile case, that he'd lose. Same with high profile Penn State cases. Sometimes he'd bring charges only to have a judge say that he didn't have enough and toss it prior to a jury hearing it.

    Ray Gricar was a had hitting prosecutor, that would take tough cases, but not with Sandusky in 1998. That is his legacy. Why that "but" is in there is questionable; him backing off politically doesn't make a great deal of sense. Neither does not enough evidence.

    The problem that I have is that Victim 6 (and B. K.) are just so atypical of his record. How he handled it, internally in the office, seems to be atypical as well. Honestly, there is no love lost between Arnold and myself, but she certainly seems to have been in favor of handling it differently and probably better. She wasn't called to rebut Schreffler and she praised Schreffler. Heck, Schreffler praised Gricar apart from this.

    The question that I have, primarily is if this is related to his disappearance. Obviously, if walkaway, it could, on many levels.
    I believe that Mr. Gricar was a great man. But even great men make mistakes. I also am familiar with some of his hard fought cases, and his generosities. While I would hope that is what he is remembered for, his actions in 1998 will cloud HIS legacy.

    It is also hard to swallow that Mr. Gricar went to the extent of setting up a sting to get Sandusky to confess, and then NOT pursue the case, when Sandusky more than confesses to his actions with the victim. And where is the case file? And who else besides Mike Mediera that worked in Mr. Gricar's office had ties to the monster? And what about Corbett and his ties to all of this? And lets not forget the msising records from Second Mile-where are they? And maybe just maybe the "mystery woman" could be someone involved in all of this? If there is any truth that the monster used Second Mile to "pimp out" young boys to men with money--and Mr. Gricar found out about it, it could be the VERY reason he is no longer with us. jmo
    Destiny Renee Brewer-November 2,1999-June 28, 2010. Destiny -I love and miss you, tiny dancer!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtIje...feature=fvwrel

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  7. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by and nothing but View Post
    perhaps we all KNOW less than we think we know.
    Or perhaps we all fear what we don't know.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  9. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJMAJORGIRL24 View Post

    It is also hard to swallow that Mr. Gricar went to the extent of setting up a sting to get Sandusky to confess, and then NOT pursue the case, when Sandusky more than confesses to his actions with the victim. And where is the case file?
    They say it is not unusual for there to be no case file.

    And who else besides Mike Mediera that worked in Mr. Gricar's office had ties to the monster? And what about Corbett and his ties to all of this? And lets not forget the msising records from Second Mile-where are they?
    Madeira was not with the DA's Office until elected in 2005. Corbett left the AG's Office in 1996; he'd been appointed to fill a vacancy in 1995. He was not elected until 2004.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  11. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    They say it is not unusual for there to be no case file.



    Madeira was not with the DA's Office until elected in 2005. Corbett left the AG's Office in 1996; he'd been appointed to fill a vacancy in 1995. He was not elected until 2004.
    Seems unusual that KA was shown only one paragraph and not a file. Madiera was Mr. Gricar's mentor and friend. Corbett was AG in 2005 when the investigation continued-.

    As crazy as the Sandusky cover up has been, it makes Ms. Baron look sane.
    Destiny Renee Brewer-November 2,1999-June 28, 2010. Destiny -I love and miss you, tiny dancer!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtIje...feature=fvwrel

  12. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJMAJORGIRL24 View Post
    Seems unusual that KA was shown only one paragraph and not a file.
    I think what she was shown was one paragraph of some report, and I'm not sure which one.


    Madiera was Mr. Gricar's mentor and friend.
    While Madeira and Gricar were friends, Gricar was not his mentor; they were not even in the same office. The AG is the state; the DA is the county.

    Corbett was AG in 2005 when the investigation continued-.

    As crazy as the Sandusky cover up has been, it makes Ms. Baron look sane.
    I'm not sure about either; Madeira got the Sandusky case in 2009 and, due to a conflict, sent it to the AG's Office. Madeira had been elected DA in 2005.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  13. #308
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    Michael Madiera while maybe was not Gricar's mentor was his friend. Michael Madiera's conflict is that Madiera's brother in law is Jerry Sanduskys adopted son. And yes I realize that the AG's office is the state. It has been reported that Corbett has profited greatly from Sandusky and Second Mile.

    Former Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira told The Associated Press that he cited the possible conflict of interest in passing the 2009 report to the state attorney general's office, which at the time was headed by now-Gov. Tom Corbett.

    In an interview Tuesday with the AP, Madeira declined to specify his family tie to Sandusky, but he revealed the connection Wednesday. He said he hasn't spoken to his brother-in-law in years and rarely spoke to Sandusky

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=1#post8084119
    Destiny Renee Brewer-November 2,1999-June 28, 2010. Destiny -I love and miss you, tiny dancer!!
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  15. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJMAJORGIRL24 View Post
    Michael Madiera while maybe was not Gricar's mentor was his friend. Michael Madiera's conflict is that Madiera's brother in law is Jerry Sanduskys adopted son. And yes I realize that the AG's office is the state. It has been reported that Corbett has profited greatly from Sandusky and Second Mile.
    Corbett ran for Governor and took campaign contribution from people associated with Second Mile, but not Sandusky. He didn't personally profit from it.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJMAJORGIRL24 View Post
    I believe that Mr. Gricar was a great man. But even great men make mistakes. I also am familiar with some of his hard fought cases, and his generosities. While I would hope that is what he is remembered for, his actions in 1998 will cloud HIS legacy.

    It is also hard to swallow that Mr. Gricar went to the extent of setting up a sting to get Sandusky to confess, and then NOT pursue the case, when Sandusky more than confesses to his actions with the victim. And where is the case file? And who else besides Mike Mediera that worked in Mr. Gricar's office had ties to the monster? And what about Corbett and his ties to all of this? And lets not forget the msising records from Second Mile-where are they? And maybe just maybe the "mystery woman" could be someone involved in all of this? If there is any truth that the monster used Second Mile to "pimp out" young boys to men with money--and Mr. Gricar found out about it, it could be the VERY reason he is no longer with us. jmo
    There was all kinds of crazy speculation when this story first broke about Sandusky engaging in child pornography and pimping children out to rich donors. But there is no evidence of anything beyond one perverted old man molesting boys entrusted to his care. The shame is he could have been been stopped. I'm never seen a situation that better proves Edmund Burke's maxim that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    In the case of RFG, the simplest hypothesis possible is he did nothing, he was ashamed, he walked away.

    Edit to add: Here's my challange to everyone posting in this thread, apply Occam's razor and give me a simpler explanation than the hypothesis I suggested.

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  18. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
    I'm never seen a situation that better proves Edmund Burke's maxim that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    The reason you didn't see that quote in a blog is that it is a misquote from Burke. It does express my views, currently at least.

    In the case of RFG, the simplest hypothesis possible is he did nothing, he was ashamed, he walked away.

    Edit to add: Here's my challange to everyone posting in this thread, apply Occam's razor and give me a simpler explanation than the hypothesis I suggested.
    To answer your "challenge," , RFG might not have wanted to be the "ex-DA." Look at some of the people called in this, Schreffler, Lauro, JKA. They are all retired and no longer in their positions. They all got called.

    RFG might have not wanted to spend his retirement answering questions about 20 years worth of cases, even if, objectively, he acted properly. He could be called in lawsuits about cases; he probably would have been called before the grand jury if he was available. Certainly, the press would have been banging at his front door about why he did something or didn't do something.

    This isn't specific to Sandusky, but it would include it.

    Add to that that RFG would probably be living in Bellefonte in retirement, where he would be accessible to local media. Ganim might not trek out to Seattle to get a story, but she would trek to Bellefonte.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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    http://triblive.com/news/2080228-74/...h-2001-abusing

    Speak of the Devil.

    Ironically, someone commenting on my latest blog called 1998 a "wise decision." I asked if it was really Dottie.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  20. #313
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    Is there a blog or something that gives a total look at the evidence from the date he went missing to now-without reading through all the threads-lol

    JJ-Are you a lawyer or friend of RG?

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  22. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    http://triblive.com/news/2080228-74/...h-2001-abusing

    Speak of the Devil.

    Ironically, someone commenting on my latest blog called 1998 a "wise decision." I asked if it was really Dottie.
    I don't see any comments from the above story

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  24. #315
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    everyone is gone now

  25. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyraKelly View Post
    Is there a blog or something that gives a total look at the evidence from the date he went missing to now-without reading through all the threads-lol
    There is one, it has about 500 entries. Here is the main index, but it doesn't cover the newer stuff.

    JJ-Are you a lawyer or friend of RG?
    Never met him; not a lawyer.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  27. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyraKelly View Post
    I don't see any comments from the above story
    It was in my current blog. Here:

    http://www.centredaily.com/2012/06/2...-the-soul.html

    I'll let the folks that call 1998 "a wise decision" speak for themselves.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  29. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    It was in my current blog. Here:

    http://www.centredaily.com/2012/06/2...-the-soul.html

    I'll let the folks that call 1998 "a wise decision" speak for themselves.
    Strange. I can read your other entries, but not this one.

    WOW-a wise decision? Is old "Jer" allowed a computer while he is on suicide watch?
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  31. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
    There was all kinds of crazy speculation when this story first broke about Sandusky engaging in child pornography and pimping children out to rich donors. But there is no evidence of anything beyond one perverted old man molesting boys entrusted to his care. The shame is he could have been been stopped. I'm never seen a situation that better proves Edmund Burke's maxim that "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    In the case of RFG, the simplest hypothesis possible is he did nothing, he was ashamed, he walked away.

    Edit to add: Here's my challange to everyone posting in this thread, apply Occam's razor and give me a simpler explanation than the hypothesis I suggested.

    While it may have been one monster -there were many MANY people that helped him. IMO everyone who turned their head, swept it under the rug, ignored the screams ..are JUST as guilty as the monster that is on suicide watch right now.
    It is not only for what we do that we are held responsible, but also for what we do not do.
    -Moliere
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  33. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    Corbett ran for Governor and took campaign contribution from people associated with Second Mile, but not Sandusky. He didn't personally profit from it.
    J.J...so you are saying he was RIGHT to take those contributions?
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  35. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    There is one, it has about 500 entries. Here is the main index, but it doesn't cover the newer stuff.



    Never met him; not a lawyer.
    umm-where is the 500 entries!

  36. #322
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    I just read SG's very long timeline story-GREAT BTW-The most important clue I found in it was -the book left on the desk to a pg about the new DA taking over-in case the current one goes missing or dies-It makes me think-RG walked away!


    http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...r_mystery.html

    When Gricar’s deputies got to the office the Monday after he disappeared, the county code book was sitting on the desk of an assistant district attorney. It eerily opened to the page describing what to do if a sitting district attorney is missing or dies

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  38. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJMAJORGIRL24 View Post
    J.J...so you are saying he was RIGHT to take those contributions?
    Yes. These were not contribution from Second Mile. They were contributions from people with a connection to Second Mile. They contributed money to it, they were volunteers at it, or they were on the board of it. Second Mile did not write him a check.

    It's also possible that some contributed to his opponent as well.

    That doesn't mean that if they give him money, he'll give them special treatment. In fact, if he'd win, he couldn't be AG anymore and couldn't do anything for Second Mile.

    In 1994, I contributed to Tom Ridge for Governor. I was a state employee. Did I expect any special treatment? No, I happened to like Ridge and I didn't like his opponent.

    Disclosure: I have contributed to every Republican nominee for Governor of Pennsylvania since 1994, except for Corbett. I had a lot of reasons not to like him too much. I didn't contribute to his opponents either.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  40. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyraKelly View Post
    umm-where is the 500 entries!
    http://www.centredaily.com/694

    I write about all the aspects of the case, the investigation, the evidence, the media coverage, the theories, the code book that was just mentioned.

    I actually don't give that too much weight:

    http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/0...code-book.html

    I generally don't have a problem opening it with Firefox.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  42. #325
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    I was just saying its important b/c-well-who opened it/why
    could be it have been RG did & knew he was leaving
    was it someone who made/knew RG was leaving

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