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  1. #616
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    feds feds feds!

    the fbi has the bones, they also tested for every drug known, they are building an open and shut case, and they aren't going to tell the public ****. they will swoop in and grab mr bigglesworth when they are ready.

  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    the fbi has the bones, they also tested for every drug known, they are building an open and shut case, and they aren't going to tell the public ****. they will swoop in and grab mr bigglesworth when they are ready.
    Where did you hear that?

  3. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred&edna View Post
    Yes, as far as the ME and COD, you're right, Peter. However, I think there is sufficient evidence to indicate foul play. I don't think the weather nor the muddy bog she was in were to blame for the fact her clothes were found elsewhere. She was hysterical but she was alive when she called for help. She didn't "just expire". I think LE should've and could've done more.

    *jmo
    Well, they could have been smarter, especially in their search operations. That would have led to an earlier discovery of the remains and therefore better chances, to nail the COD.
    But then, there is not much, that actually indicates foul play beyond the point of a drug party gone wrong. She was a borderline patient, I read here on the board months ago. She had a history of drug abuse. She was in an environment in which the drugs didn't come from her own stash.
    And the undressing thing? Happens so often, there is even a term for it:Paradoxical Undressing. I think, it was AlaskanBlue, who posted that link first:
    http://www.survivaltopics.com/paradoxical-undressing/
    Interesting read.
    So by all means, not much really indicating foul play. However, you are right, LE could have done more, or even better, the same, only in the right order and faster. But then, in SK cases round the World, I have studied, I saw always this first phase of "egg-dance".

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  4. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    the fbi has the bones, they also tested for every drug known, they are building an open and shut case, and they aren't going to tell the public ****. they will swoop in and grab mr bigglesworth when they are ready.
    Yeah, exactly like they did with Zodiac, West Mesa, the Miami Suitcase murders, the Ft. Worth Three, the Texas Killing Fields, ... I doubt, there is even a complete list of all their successes. Maybe, we should rethink the methodology?

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  5. #620
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    Feds and Speds

    Quote Originally Posted by dcgrumpy View Post
    Where did you hear that?
    I don't have to hear things. I have the ability to logically conclude on the basis of evidence. You sleuths need to get past having to be spoon fed everything. Where are all the laptops, the recordings, etc? Oh that's right, they are with the fbi. The SCPD are merely a terrible public relations division at this point.

    fbi to scpd: "make the media get away from oak beach, tell them she drown or something."
    scpd to public: "uhh she went in there and expired, I mean drown, I mean quicksand"
    scpd to fbi: "we need the bones back the family's trying to sue"
    fbi to scpd: "christ, ok 2 more months, but we need to keep the fingers and hyoid for evidence"

  6. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    I don't have to hear things. I have the ability to logically conclude on the basis of evidence. You sleuths need to get past having to be spoon fed everything. Where are all the laptops, the recordings, etc? Oh that's right, they are with the fbi. The SCPD are merely a terrible public relations division at this point.

    fbi to scpd: "make the media get away from oak beach, tell them she drown or something."
    scpd to public: "uhh she went in there and expired, I mean drown, I mean quicksand"
    scpd to fbi: "we need the bones back the family's trying to sue"
    fbi to scpd: "christ, ok 2 more months, but we need to keep the fingers and hyoid for evidence"
    So the other missing bone is a finger? A finger from her neck, right? Where did you get that?
    Seriously, I agree, the FBI had the fingers on the bones, but not the whole time. The BAU is supporting, but usually not doing the legwork. And about their profile 101 (white loner in a basement between 10 an 99 years old) one could debate. And the rest of your last post is once more pure assumption. So, please don't forget our beer bet when this is all over (if it will be over before we all die from old age).

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  7. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    Well, they could have been smarter, especially in their search operations. That would have led to an earlier discovery of the remains and therefore better chances, to nail the COD.
    But then, there is not much, that actually indicates foul play beyond the point of a drug party gone wrong. She was a borderline patient, I read here on the board months ago. She had a history of drug abuse. She was in an environment in which the drugs didn't come from her own stash.
    And the undressing thing? Happens so often, there is even a term for it:Paradoxical Undressing. I think, it was AlaskanBlue, who posted that link first:
    http://www.survivaltopics.com/paradoxical-undressing/
    Interesting read.
    So by all means, not much really indicating foul play. However, you are right, LE could have done more, or even better, the same, only in the right order and faster. But then, in SK cases round the World, I have studied, I saw always this first phase of "egg-dance".

    Peter
    With regard to the paradoxical undressing... If she was in a state of hypothermia causing her to remove her clothes at point A (where they were found) would she actually have the physical ability and mental capacity to continue moving on to point B (where she was found)?? That's seems quite the distance if she was already suffering such a level of hypothermia.

  8. #623
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    The Suffolk County PD does not function like a police squad we might find on a prime time television drama. There has never been any evidence in any case where they have knowingly played head games (like removing a bone from a victim's remains and then lying about it to trap a suspect).

    What you see is what you get with this department. If the bones are with the FBI, they would simply say so. There is nothing to gain by hiding that kind of assistance. The department also would not be employing the special homicide task force with unlimited overtime for this case if it was secretly in the hands of the FBI (especially with the County now in a state of a self-declared fiscal emergency).

  9. #624
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    i won't forget your beer bet - i want to go toooooooo

    let's all go........when its all over and said and done..........

    tkm

  10. #625
    I've updated the Shannan Gilbert section of the OP Murders.

    http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...ert%20%20-NJ-/
    Photos from various cases (click on left-column names on the main photobucket page...they are in alphabetical order) http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/

    "LIKE" CCA: Crankycrankerson Case Archives on facebook, and please share the link: https://www.facebook.com/pages/CCA-C...479258?sk=wall


  11. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred&edna View Post
    With regard to the paradoxical undressing... If she was in a state of hypothermia causing her to remove her clothes at point A (where they were found) would she actually have the physical ability and mental capacity to continue moving on to point B (where she was found)?? That's seems quite the distance if she was already suffering such a level of hypothermia.
    That reminds me to that English guy who messed up on the Mt. Everest. They found him like 60 years later, almost eight miles from his pants. I have to look up, where this story was, it's like twenty years ago, I read them in a book.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    That reminds me to that English guy who messed up on the Mt. Everest. They found him like 60 years later, almost eight miles from his pants. I have to look up, where this story was, it's like twenty years ago, I read them in a book.

    Peter
    IIRC that also happened with the father of that family that was stranded in OR a couple of years ago. They found some of his discarded clothing days before they found his body.

  13. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    That reminds me to that English guy who messed up on the Mt. Everest. They found him like 60 years later, almost eight miles from his pants. I have to look up, where this story was, it's like twenty years ago, I read them in a book.

    Peter
    They found him 8 miles from his pants, huh? Interesting. Mighty cold on Mt Everest.

    PS: All this beer talk... I'll have a Heineken

  14. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    So the other missing bone is a finger? A finger from her neck, right? Where did you get that?
    Seriously, I agree, the FBI had the fingers on the bones, but not the whole time. The BAU is supporting, but usually not doing the legwork. And about their profile 101 (white loner in a basement between 10 an 99 years old) one could debate. And the rest of your last post is once more pure assumption. So, please don't forget our beer bet when this is all over (if it will be over before we all die from old age).

    Peter
    Sorry i forget not everyone is privy to local news, it was reported in the news here that some bones from the fingers are missing too. hey did you guys hear about the native alaskan serial killer operating in mexico city? or the man that was killed by penguins in the desert? it was in the news right after the article about the african american serial killer operating on ocean parkway :P

  15. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotten dingo View Post
    I'm glad the thyroid vs. hyoid bone thing was cleared up. I was going to say it would be a lot stranger if they had found her *thyroid* bone, since there is no such thing, right?

    I was thinking about this. Since the hyoid bone can often show evidence of strangulation...Since the GB4 had signs of strangulation and LE has said repeatedly they do not believe SG is connected to GB4....Since LE has been trying so very hard to convince everyone that SG cartwheeled out of her jeans and ditched her possessions in a pile while making her way through the bramble running from imaginary boogeymen... Who benefits from this missing hyoid bone? Perhaps not only the (possible) killer. If the hyoid is not there to show signs of murder, that sure is convenient for LE to perpetuate their "Shannan drowned" theory.

    We know LE sometimes keeps info from the public, lies to bait a suspect, etc. It seems possible to me this could be the case here. So maybe the ME puts the hyoid (and whatever other bone they chose, to make it seem possible for animals to have done this) in his pocket so LE could claim "the bone wasn't present", which in a sneaky way, would be true. The question would be are they doing this to give the killer (lisk or not) a false sense of security? Or for some nefarious reason, to intentionally make a murder seem like an accident?

    Whatever the case, it sure seems odd to me that this particular bone is missing. Actually, outright suspicious. I feel so very sorry for the family.

    just wanted to add -- the most recent articles say the ME found no evidence of Gilbert drowning.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7862897&postcount=564"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?[/ame]


    Originally, police had said they believed Gilbert had drowned in the swampy area of Oak Beach. However, the attorney says the report contains no evidence of that.

    the attorney for Mari reiterated that statement in his press conference (where he also discusses the 911 tape)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64vNIyC0a3g&feature=share"]Family wants answers after Shannan Gilbert's autopsy's ruled - YouTube[/ame]
    Last edited by MrsPC; 05-03-2012 at 10:21 PM.

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