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Thread: Penn State Sandusky cover-up: AD arrested, Paterno fired, dies; cover-up charged #8

  1. #251
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    The more I read information like the post StellarsJay posted above - the more I question how over the YEARS that people like Curley, Schultz, Paterno and all had NO FOLLOW UP
    on what was going on with Sandusky.

    No chance they 'forgot' what he did, what he was doing and what they should be doing to keep other kids safe. They remained silent to protect their own interests. MO

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  3. #252
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    Still waiting for Arnold to respond to the latest CDT blog on Sporadic..Gricar. Lol.

    In most jurisdictions, in her role as ADA, IF that's the capacity in which she testified at the grand jury, she would be foresworn from speaking publicly about her testimony. However, if she were somehow testifying at Sandusky's grand jury as a private citizen, then she's free to talk now about her testimony.

    Doesn't matter. She's made it clear that Amendola--or whoever else wants to know, if only to sell newspapers--is getting nothing till the court determines when/how to release the g.j. testimony. Good for her. I like that sort of spunk in a person. Has fortitude to withstand the public baiting.

    It's pretty clear that the locals who've challenged each other, largely in the social media, for literally YEARS now, are earnestly trying to either find out what happened to Gricar. Or defend a horse they have in that race. For us true-crime followers, it's an interesting case. For those who have a stake in the matter, it's much more. Yet we all discuss it in the same venue. A sea-change.

    It has occurred to several people I know that the Gricar investigation might have been mishandled/delayed/whatever until some progress was made on the Sandusky and coverup front.
    Last edited by pinktoes; 02-26-2012 at 03:16 PM. Reason: correct content/wording

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  5. #253
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    Can anybody point me to info about Christian Amos Goodall's suicide, and what "battling his own troubles" might have referred to?

    http://www.centrecountycf.org/who-we...d-honorees.php

    I believe he graduated PSU in June, 2010; his maternal grandmother died at a nursing home in Belleville, PA in August, 2010. He committed suicide at his parents' home Nov 2, 2010.

    (His dad represented Lara Gricar in having Ray declared dead; Leslie Dutchcot was of counsel in Goodall's firm.)

    At the link you can see the memorial funds set up in his memory at CCCF (where his dad is a Director).

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  7. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post

    In most jurisdictions, in her role as ADA, IF that's the capacity in which she testified at the grand jury, she would be foresworn from speaking publicly about her testimony. However, if she were somehow testifying at Sandusky's grand jury as a private citizen, then she's free to talk now about her testimony.
    I don't blame her a bit for not talking, on the record or off. She might have been one of those few people who tried to stop Sandusky. If that turns out to be the case, JKA will get nothing but praise from me.

    It's pretty clear that the locals who've challenged each other, largely in the social media, for literally YEARS now, are earnestly trying to either find out what happened to Gricar. Or defend a horse they have in that race. For us true-crime followers, it's an interesting case. For those who have a stake in the matter, it's much more. Yet we all discuss it in the same venue. A sea-change.
    I change based on evidence.

    It has occurred to several people I know that the Gricar investigation might have been mishandled/delayed/whatever until some progress was made on the Sandusky and coverup front.
    There have been suggestions of another grand jury.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  9. #255
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  11. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellarsJay View Post
    Every line of that article is perfect! It really cuts through the crapola.

    The half-hearted effort to bring justice for Sandusky’s victims has gone on long enough. After years of feigned ignorance, deaf ears and outright enabling at every level of a public university, every level of a sinister charity, and every level of local and state law enforcement all the way up to the current governor of Pennsylvania, it is past time that the larger case be advanced.

    There will be new questions asked by some very serious people, and new answers provided.

    Answers too many have not wanted to get.

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

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  13. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtFox View Post
    Every line of that article is perfect! It really cuts through the crapola.

    The half-hearted effort to bring justice for Sandusky’s victims has gone on long enough. After years of feigned ignorance, deaf ears and outright enabling at every level of a public university, every level of a sinister charity, and every level of local and state law enforcement all the way up to the current governor of Pennsylvania, it is past time that the larger case be advanced.

    There will be new questions asked by some very serious people, and new answers provided.

    Answers too many have not wanted to get.
    I'm going to disagree just a bit.

    The Two AG's: Corbett and Kelly
    The AG initially only had Victim 1, and they had to ferret out the rest of the victims. Victim 2 took some time; they were searching message boards, but we don't know what else they did first. They then had to match up the photos in Touched to find Victims 3-5. Some thing led them to Victim 6 and the report. Then there were Victims 7-8. I can understand some delay. [Corbett was the first Republican candidate since 1990 that I did not contribute to, so there is no love lost there. Kelly is not running for the post this year and will probably be too old in 2020.]

    The Two DA's: Salisbury and Madeira
    The crime was out of Salisbury's jurisdiction, so he sent it to Madeira. Madeira had a legitimate conflict of interest (which I questioned) and sent it to the AG's Office. [And not only did I contribute to Madeira's opponent, but you should see the negative blogs I wrote about Madeira, including one titled "'Disingenuous'".]

    Some of the people in the 1998 investigation
    Det. Schreffler obviously did a good job with that 1998 report. There is at least the possibility that Arnold, an ADA, pushed for more to be done; that has not played out yet so I can't say for sure. [And you read he googlepages, you'll see that we do not get along at all.]

    I don't really have any reason to complement these people, except that the did a good job. That said, there were a lot of failures by a lot of other people.
    Last edited by J. J. in Phila; 02-27-2012 at 03:56 AM.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  15. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtFox View Post
    Every line of that article is perfect! It really cuts through the crapola.

    The half-hearted effort to bring justice for Sandusky’s victims has gone on long enough. After years of feigned ignorance, deaf ears and outright enabling at every level of a public university, every level of a sinister charity, and every level of local and state law enforcement all the way up to the current governor of Pennsylvania, it is past time that the larger case be advanced.

    There will be new questions asked by some very serious people, and new answers provided.

    Answers too many have not wanted to get.
    Did that article "editorial" really tell you anything new?

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  17. #259
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    This appears to be at least a massive coverup. At least that. What I can't settle in my own mind is whether all these people who might be involved in it would have done so ONLY for money. (In 'money' I include everything related to dollars, ambition, protection of reputation--personal, institutional, community).

    Am I so personally out of touch that I just can't imagine that being a sufficient motivation? Only my skepticism allows me to accept money as enough reason to conceal and enable. More deeply, I just can't believe it. Not of so many people.

    Which leads me to personal motivations I CAN believe in. Like fear. Fear so enormous that it can only relate to perceived threat of life/health of self--or, more motivating--of loved ones.

    Another personal motivation I perceive as sufficient to coverup or enable Sandusky: personal participation in child sex abuse. Sandusky could provide perceived low-risk victims. Society's "throw-away" children. And, money could buy that.

    What else? What else? Searching because money might be enough for some, but surely not for all. What made it all go 'round?

    Of course, I'm looking for "hush money" payments to victims. And not just Sandusky's own victims.

    Which means I'm also looking for payments, via however circuitous a route, to Sandusky/his designated organizations or projects. Payments for personal use of a child.

    Which then leads me to look for blackmail (payment same as above, and perhaps prompted by people other than/in addition to Sandusky). That sort of prostitution service has worked in politics before. Provide the service, then blackmail the recipient.

    A related though to the hush money thing is: someone, a PSU trustee or other, could have his personal atty arrange to pay for settlement of a civil suit by a victim. Possibly through a designated financial contribution to PSU. If done properly, it would be legally okay. Just helping out the university with their legal costs. All it would raise is eyebrows, assuming no other evidence were found involving that individual. I see a sticky wicket of frustration in the future if this sort of thing is found. (As in, we know who did it, and suspect why, but they got away with it thanks to foresight and good lawyering. Dreading that possibility).

    Other than those thoughts, I'm back to money, greed and ambition that exceeds the welfare of a child.

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  19. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiogirl View Post
    Did that article "editorial" really tell you anything new?
    No, but as a summary it's rare to see everything mentioned in one article: the University Cover Up, possible pay-offs, possible RICO and CLERY charges, Sandusky's emails, crossing state lines to have sex with a minor, the connection to Second Mile, etc...

    Isn't that enough?

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

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  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtFox View Post
    No, but as a summary it's rare to see everything mentioned in one article: the University Cover Up, possible pay-offs, possible RICO and CLERY charges, Sandusky's emails, crossing state lines to have sex with a minor, the connection to Second Mile, etc...

    Isn't that enough?
    The only that I can say is "Oh God, I hope not!"


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  23. #262
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    JJ: clipping from your post, just for reference, "...the possibility that Arnold, an ADA, pushed for more to be done; that has not played out yet so I can't say for sure. [And you read he googlepages, you'll see that we do not get along at all.]"

    All I've read is her 2007 tome. What's amazing to me is that in it, she practically accused the poster she called "JJ" and "JJinPhila", a person supposedly unknown to her, of conducting either a disinformation campaign re Gricar's disappearance. Or, something even more nefarious--at least in my interpretation of what she wrote.

    Now, that's going pretty far just to conduct a spirited intellectual debate. It sounded to me like she really meant it. And questioned how her "JJ" came to have knowledge of so many of Gricar's old cases and of office events, such as the unpublished info about her location around the time he disappeared. Suggesting her "JJ" had personal knowledge, or info from someone close to that office who had personal knowledge. As well as the similar, vague, "horse-in-the-race" theorizing.

    What I'd like to see now is where her "JJ" responded in print to those speculative comments she made. Got a link for me?

    It's just an amazing thing to watch this take place in print, as it were. I understand that JKA lost a longtime associate, is upset, and wants answers. You didn't; IIRC, you never met Gricar--or Patty. I just don't get your part in the debate. Not at all. Help??

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  25. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post
    What I'd like to see now is where her "JJ" responded in print to those speculative comments she made. Got a link for me?
    As to the information: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/07/0...-got-here.html


    It's just an amazing thing to watch this take place in print, as it were. I understand that JKA lost a longtime associate, is upset, and wants answers. You didn't; IIRC, you never met Gricar--or Patty. I just don't get your part in the debate. Not at all. Help??
    Why I'm doing it is here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/0...he-gricar.html Basically, if it was related to his official conduct, someone with a grudge against an elected official, 15 years before, it could have been me. If you're just looking with someone with a judge against a functionary, I'd only have to go seven years before 2005 to say it could have been me.

    About six months out, I became very frustrated that a guy, a sitting district attorney, who had a good record, vanished, might have been murdered, and there was a killer (possibly a very bright one) still walking around.

    As for the "good record," I've made so secret that I think the 1998 Sandusky was hideously bad. I've looked, as much as I can, at the rest of his cases, even after that came out, and they were not hideously bad. It is otherwise a fairly good record. That's a bit like asking, "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play," at this point. One of the problems that I have with 1998 is that it is a complete anomaly.

    If I was sure RFG's departure was voluntary (suicide or walkaway), my interest would end. And the problem is, the odds on foul play have not down, even before Sandusky.

    [This is more appropriate for the Gricar thread.]
    Last edited by J. J. in Phila; 02-27-2012 at 04:17 PM.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  27. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    As to the information: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/07/0...-got-here.html



    Why I'm doing it is here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/0...he-gricar.html Basically, if it was related to his official conduct, someone with a grudge against an elected official, 15 years before, it could have been me. If you're just looking with someone with a judge against a functionary, I'd only have to go seven years before 2005 to say it could have been me.

    About six months out, I became very frustrated that a guy, a sitting district attorney, who had a good record, vanished, might have been murdered, and there was a killer (possibly a very bright one) still walking around.

    As for the "good record," I've made so secret that I think the 1998 Sandusky was hideously bad. I've looked, as much as I can, at the rest of his cases, even after that came out, and they were not hideously bad. It is otherwise a fairly good record. That's a bit like asking, "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play," at this point. One of the problems that I have with 1998 is that it is a complete anomaly.

    If I was sure RFG's departure was voluntary (suicide or walkaway), my interest would end. And the problem is, the odds on foul play have not down, even before Sandusky.

    [This is more appropriate for the Gricar thread.]
    To continue the OT just a moment, I read the links above and wanted to read more of your blog but some of the posts are not available, such as, "Extensive Disagreements' which is recent and also 'Central Penn. Gothic'. Can you help with that for those interested? TIA

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  29. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    To continue the OT just a moment, I read the links above and wanted to read more of your blog but some of the posts are not available, such as, "Extensive Disagreements' which is recent and also 'Central Penn. Gothic'. Can you help with that for those interested? TIA
    There is a problem accessing it with some browsers or you may have to register. There is nothing I can do about it at my end. Sorry.

    I don't have a problem with Firefox, if it is a browser problem.
    Last edited by J. J. in Phila; 02-27-2012 at 08:28 PM.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  31. #266
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    Sandusky Attorney Seeks Trial Delay

    http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpps/news...27-bb_18252307

    BELLEFONTE, Pa. -- The attorney for accused child molester Jerry Sandusky filed a motion Monday asking to have his client's trial delayed until July.

    Joseph Amendola wants the May trial postponed as he works to analyze the "great volume" of material related to the case and attempts to line up his defense witnesses, The Patriot-News reported.


    Little more at link...

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  33. #267
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    OK, question:

    Kane, running for DA, is saying that she would have moved on just one victim and not bothered with a grand jury because the process is so slow. I do undestand that more investigators could have been assigned to the case to speed it up, but wouldn't betting the moon on just one victim have been very risky and not looking for the probable other victims also be kind of a coverup? Is the statement below an indication that she is overconfident or foolhardy?

    What was gained by using the grand jury- is it customary in major crime cases or just the controversial ones, or what? Would Schultz and Curley be charged without it?


    See below.
    "Kane says she has tried hundreds of child sex abuse cases and is sharply critical of former Attorney General Tom Corbett’s approach to the Jerry Sandusky case at Penn State, especially Corbett’s use of a grand jury.

    [She says] I have never once used a grand jury to investigate a case of child sexual assault for one reason – it takes too long. Your first priority is to get a sexually violent predator off of the streets.”

    Kane says had she been attorney general, the case would not have been delayed so long after knowledge of the first victim.

    “We would have put as many investigators on as we needed to put on the case. I would not have waited as long as that case was delayed.”

    Kane says Corbett was just wrong in his belief that he needed more victims before prosecuting Sandusky.

    In her view, one victim of child abuse is one too many and she would have acted a whole lot faster to get Sandusky off the street.

    http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/...sandusky-case/

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  35. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellarsJay View Post
    OK, question:

    Kane, running for DA, is saying that she would have moved on just one victim and not bothered with a grand jury because the process is so slow. I do undestand that more investigators could have been assigned to the case to speed it up, but wouldn't betting the moon on just one victim have been very risky and not looking for the probable other victims also be kind of a coverup? Is the statement below an indication that she is overconfident or foolhardy?
    It can be used to investigate a number of aspects of the case. It has the power to subpoena people and lock in their testimony, and to subpoena documents.

    What was gained by using the grand jury- is it customary in major crime cases or just the controversial ones, or what?
    It is useful with people hiding things.

    Would Schultz and Curley be charged without it?
    Probably not.

    I won't be voting for Kane.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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  37. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellarsJay View Post
    OK, question:

    Kane, running for DA, is saying that she would have moved on just one victim and not bothered with a grand jury because the process is so slow. I do undestand that more investigators could have been assigned to the case to speed it up, but wouldn't betting the moon on just one victim have been very risky and not looking for the probable other victims also be kind of a coverup? Is the statement below an indication that she is overconfident or foolhardy?

    What was gained by using the grand jury- is it customary in major crime cases or just the controversial ones, or what? Would Schultz and Curley be charged without it?


    See below.
    "Kane says she has tried hundreds of child sex abuse cases and is sharply critical of former Attorney General Tom Corbett’s approach to the Jerry Sandusky case at Penn State, especially Corbett’s use of a grand jury.

    [She says] I have never once used a grand jury to investigate a case of child sexual assault for one reason – it takes too long. Your first priority is to get a sexually violent predator off of the streets.”

    Kane says had she been attorney general, the case would not have been delayed so long after knowledge of the first victim.

    “We would have put as many investigators on as we needed to put on the case. I would not have waited as long as that case was delayed.”

    Kane says Corbett was just wrong in his belief that he needed more victims before prosecuting Sandusky.

    In her view, one victim of child abuse is one too many and she would have acted a whole lot faster to get Sandusky off the street.


    http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/...sandusky-case/
    BBM

    But the thing is, what if she lost that one case against Sandusky? Then the other victims would see that he could get away with what he had done and I doubt any of them would have come forward. I'm glad they had the GJ and were able to build a better case with more evidence and victims willing to give evidence. (and we all know these are not all of them) It makes it much more likely for guilty verdicts to me plus more of the ones who have been abused will have a chance at justice.

    I have read many comments complaining that Corbett did not get enough investigators to do the job and blaming him for the delay in getting charges, even hinting that he was part of a cover up. Don't know if all that is true or not but it does seem that it all got going when Kelly came in.

    I'm glad it's been handled the way it has been so far. As shown by ThoughtFox's post above, there are so many threads to all of this and so many people involved that it took GJ powers to be able to investigate it all...and it's not over yet. Now that the feds are involved it will get even deeper and hopefully we'll find out all the nasty little secrets that allowed this predator (IMO) to continue to operate so openly for so many years right under the noses of his enablers (or accomplices?).

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  39. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    BBM

    But the thing is, what if she lost that one case against Sandusky? Then the other victims would see that he could get away with what he had done and I doubt any of them would have come forward. I'm glad they had the GJ and were able to build a better case with more evidence and victims willing to give evidence. (and we all know these are not all of them) It makes it much more likely for guilty verdicts to me plus more of the ones who have been abused will have a chance at justice.

    I have read many comments complaining that Corbett did not get enough investigators to do the job and blaming him for the delay in getting charges, even hinting that he was part of a cover up. Don't know if all that is true or not but it does seem that it all got going when Kelly came in.

    I'm glad it's been handled the way it has been so far. As shown by ThoughtFox's post above, there are so many threads to all of this and so many people involved that it took GJ powers to be able to investigate it all...and it's not over yet. Now that the feds are involved it will get even deeper and hopefully we'll find out all the nasty little secrets that allowed this predator (IMO) to continue to operate so openly for so many years right under the noses of his enablers (or accomplices?).
    Yes, I have no doubt that there are many more secrets in this complicated case.

    I'm optimistic because I feel with the Feds it won't just be business as usual. Fresh eyes always find new angles. Maybe some people in the legal system there have just been looking at everything one way for too long.

    High time things got shaken up!

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

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  41. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    Sandusky Attorney Seeks Trial Delay

    http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpps/news...27-bb_18252307

    BELLEFONTE, Pa. -- The attorney for accused child molester Jerry Sandusky filed a motion Monday asking to have his client's trial delayed until July.

    Joseph Amendola wants the May trial postponed as he works to analyze the "great volume" of material related to the case and attempts to line up his defense witnesses, The Patriot-News reported.


    Little more at link...
    Line up his defense witnesses?

    Let's guess who Jerry's defense witnesses will be besides his wife? Dr Raykovitz, the child psychiatrist and his wife, the child guidance counselor (aka the ones with professional licenses to lose)

    Will the feds ever investigate The Second Mile's enablers?

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  43. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtFox View Post
    Yes, I have no doubt that there are many more secrets in this complicated case.

    I'm optimistic because I feel with the Feds it won't just be business as usual. Fresh eyes always find new angles. Maybe some people in the legal system there have just been looking at everything one way for too long.

    High time things got shaken up!
    Believe that one of the biggest stumbling blocks has been removed from this equation-- that being protecting Joe Paterno.

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  45. #273
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    Pensfan, you got me looking at Jack Raykovitz's state licensure, just on the remote chance that he had any complaints filed against him. I found none; license still intact (as Clinical Psychologist, BTW). John Robert Raykovitz.

    Interestingly, since he has a colleague at MidStep Centers who specializes in child abuse, that means The Second Mile had a known resource available to make referrals to, or to recommend to the professionals who worked with TSM kids. So, that's nice. She is:

    "Dr. [Georgianna] Achilles is experienced in treating behavioral and emotional problems in children and adolescents, and has specialized training in child abuse treatment." [And she takes payment thru several insurers, although MidStep's founder, Dr. Peter Montminy takes no insurance--private pay only.]

    http://www.midstep.com/achilles/

    I also verified the licenses of Dr. Montminy; and the lack of any state license per PA's records for Katherine Genovese (formerly Bernecker).

    Apparently, Raykovitz was allowed to stay with MidStep till Aug, 20ll:

    "Raykovitz stepped away from his a part-time child psychology practice at MidStep Centers for Child Development around August, when the grand jury investigation became public, said Dr. Peter Montminy, the office’s founding director."

    per: http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/11...penn-state-1-3

    Dr. Montminy has known of the good work of Second Mile a long time. When TSM was looking for money in 1994 he gave them this endorsement:

    "Giving children positive reinforcement and increasing self-esteem by accomplishing various activities makes Second Mile a strong program for children with problems, said Peter Montminy, a child psychologist with the University's Psychological Clinic."

    from:
    http://www.collegian.psu.edu:8080/ar...-94dnews-1.asp

    Also at the link immediately above, in 1994, Katherine Genovese (Bernecker), TSM's Program Director, was quoted:

    "Sometimes a volunteer will be assigned to help a specific child overcome a problem by talking and spending extra time with him or her, Bernecker said."

    Genovese/Bernecker, best I can see, after her education at PSU never worked substantially anywhere other than TSM. Nor would she have the license to do so.

    Raykovitz also had another professional practice in town, where Carol L Skinner, also a licensed clin psychologist worked. I've forgotten the name. I could hop on one foot from its location to MidStep's State College office.

    Anyone wanting to check on any others Raykovitz may have had an affiliation with can find some of those here:

    http://www.cityfos.com/Raykovitz-Joh...88.profile.htm


    Just keeping up with the pros.

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  47. #274
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    293
    Here's where you can verify State of PA's licenses:

    http://www.licensepa.state.pa.us/

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  49. #275
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    293
    I'm a relative and sporadic poster here, so please forgive if I'm redundant with my posts.

    I'm just getting around, myself, to looking at Jack Raykovitz. I rarely saw his name before the recent calamity. Here is one finding, where he was given an honorary membership in 2003, to that august organization Skull & Bones:

    Jack Raykovitz (Honorary) - Psychologist
    President of The Second Mile
    Congratulations to the newest members of Skull and Bones!

    "...University
    President Graham Spanier (F ‘02H) spoke next,
    recalling his experiences with Skull and Bones, and
    introduced AIG Board Member and University
    Trustee Dave Joyner (Sp ‘71)..."

    from:
    http://www.skullandbones.org/Members...ives/03-04.pdf

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