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  1. #151
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    I'm disappointed with the judge's ruling on these issues. Sandusky, in light of all the statics we know about pedophiles, is indeed a threat to his granchildren-- as well as the children playing on the school playground. This isn't mere child porn, it's a dang peep show and lap dances.

    Also, as far as having other adults present, when did he EVER have his victims completely alone? Part of his thrill, his MO, is to have other adults present. It adds to the risk of being caught-- he removed them from class right under the noses of other adults, he raped them in an open locker room, in a public swimming pool, flaunted them at well attended sporting events, published their pictures in his autobiography!! GMAB, other adults will be present.

    I'm just hoping the judge gave him enough rope to hang himself. We don't know how far along Jerry is with his next victim, nor who that is. Is that who's pulling him to sit in the backyard, or is it one of those grandkids? s: He's facing the rest of his life locked away for good and we're to believe he'll suddenly lose his sex drive? I don't-- I think he'll try to live it up a little before it all has to stop. s:

    ...and just think of the children on that playground who are being abused by someone else!! They know a monster is watching them at recess, and imo, they're being freshly traumatized potentially every day of the week. Why doesn't Dottie tell him to get his raggedly azz inside!?! If he's such a "big kid" himself, then why doesn't someone parent him? God forbid, if I were his wife I'd twist his ear off and drag him inside.

    moo




    This wikipage is chock full of well researched reasons Jerry Sandusky should be confined, either in his home with no children or behind bars. It's a horrible stroll through an awful subject, but here we are.

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse"]Child sexual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


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  3. #152
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    I've always wondered who all did all the social agency casework all these years that involved Sandusky's various foster children. Both the temporary placements and ones that became adopted children. And, we know that Fresh Air out of NY said back in the 70s they now believe they had some children in, IIRC, summer placement/camps (?) under the supervision of either Sandusky or The Second Mile.

    Juvenile Court Probation Service caseworker names would be of interest too.

    Plus, any Guardian Ad Litem personnel involved with Sandusky, TSM, or others under the influence of those agencies.

    I know some years back that Patty F worked in juvie probation; and her ex-husband is now Supervisor there.

    What about Emma Lange, Ray's 2nd wife? Ever serve as, maybe Guardian Ad Litem?

    Lance Marshall, in any official or unofficial capacity involved with any possible victims of Sandusky or TSM donors, or even PSU donors. Sandusky's main reason and role in that PSU-provided office after 1999 was as a fund raiser. In Touched, he said he hated calling on potential donors and was bad at it. Yet raise money he did, long after he left as asst coach PSU.

    We need to know all the adults involved. Then maybe somebody can assist investigators with new evidence.


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  5. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiche View Post
    Also, as far as having other adults present, when did he EVER have his victims completely alone? Part of his thrill, his MO, is to have other adults present. It adds to the risk of being caught-- he removed them from class right under the noses of other adults, he raped them in an open locker room, in a public swimming pool, flaunted them at well attended sporting events, published their pictures in his autobiography!! GMAB, other adults will be present.
    Most of the time, he though that he was not in the presence of adults. 1997, 1998, and 2007 are all examples of where there was no other adult present. 2000 and 2002 is when he thought he would be alone.







    This wikipage is chock full of well researched reasons Jerry Sandusky should be confined, either in his home with no children or behind bars. It's a horrible stroll through an awful subject, but here we are.

    Child sexual abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    And what are the legal reasons? Non-legal reasons make no difference under the law.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
    BBM The children will be supervised by people who grew up under the manipulative, cunning, raping suspect thumb. The judge knows that.
    In the school yard?

    Being manipulative in the process of molesting and raping a child is illegal.
    And? If he cannot molest or rape, and manipulation cannot lead to it.

    This judge granted Jerry special rights that are not normally afforded people who are charged with raping children. It has nothing to do with if he has been found guilty or not.
    I think they apply across the board.

    It is a disgusting decision but one that does not surprise me in a state where thousands of children were stripped of their freedoms and jailed for years at the whim of a couple of crooked judges.
    Not relevant, since it doesn't involve this judge.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  9. #155
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    With all of the special treatment Jerry has received, I have to wonder if he is gonna cop a plea to some small and much reduced crime and get a slap on the wrist (probation.) I find it more likely than not at this point. An awful lot of people seem hell bent on letting him off.
    Forum: Jury Room
    Thread: Most interesting classic unsolved murder cases

    This thread currently has over 350 cases with a brief synopsis of each and we are still adding additional cases.

    You can access a spreadsheet that lists the cases in alphabetical order with the page & post number so that you can locate a particular case you may be interested in. It also contains links to any cases that already have a thread on WS.

    Many cases do not have a thread. Please feel free to start one in the appropriate forum if you would like to look into one. Should you start a thread on one of these cases, please let me know so that I can add the link to the spreadsheet.

    Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


    Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBBcGVid0lmUHc
    =======================================

    Forum: Jury Room
    Thread: Cold But Not Too Old Murder Case List

    This is a listing of newer but still cold cases. As with the above thread we will be adding as we go along. Most of these cases will probably have threads. If you do start a new one, please let me know so I can add the link to the spreadsheets. The spreadsheets may be accessed from the links below.

    Here is the link for the spreadsheet in alphabetical order:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mlNV2lSQ1dDWHc

    Here is the link for the spreadsheet in country order:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FBIaHRnR1g0SEE


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  11. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    Well, as far as I know groping or raping an adult woman would be illegal. I don't plan to do that, even if I am attracted to women. Maybe Sanduskyis attracted to young boys. That, in itself, is not illegal. It may be creepy, but creepy is not illegal.



    The last thing she claimed is that he might be grooming the child.
    This just misconstrues what I meant in my post...there is no comparison to mutual adult sexual inclinations/acts, even illegal ones, and those of an adult with a child. This is comparing apples to oranges because it's a whole other mindset and pathology.

    BBM

    With the 'maybe' it's apparent there is disbelief of the GJ presentment which makes the discussion difficult since I'm not looking purely from a legal or defense viewpoint but from the children's viewpoint, wanting justice for them. I believe their testimony.

    If there had been just 1 or maybe even 2 complaints that were made recently with no witnesses, I might have doubts too, and want to wait until JS is convicted to restrict his contact with his grandchildren and other kids. It's been a long time but I've worked cases of these types of complaints that were made during a divorce or for other personal reasons and CPS workers were cautioned to take that into account.

    In this case there are multiple boys over a 15 year period, most of whom did not know each other, were different ages, and most of whom had never reported or threatened JS with telling what he had done to them in all those years, until they were ID'd and tracked down by the GJ and persuaded to testify. And there are reliable witnesses to JS's conduct with these kids. That leaves, to me, very little room for a conspiracy or plot against JS as he, his wife and his lawyer are alleging.

    I'm sorry, but after reading the presentments several times there is just no 'maybe' to me about JS being attracted to little boys and grooming and attacking them sexually, and his continuing desire to do so again. This is not a personality blip; this is a sickness for which there is no cure, and as Concerned Papa said, he will continue as long as allowed.

    How it will turn out legally remains to be seen of course but even if he is acquitted I will still think he is a predator. If that shows a bias, so be it, it's a bias for the children that I think have been victims of this man, and I have a right to my viewpoint as everyone else does.

    As far as the last sentence, again this is not correct about what has happened with this DIL. She is also being used by the defense to cast doubt on the charges since her report about what JS did to her son could not be verified sufficiently for a charge of molestation. I'm again inclined to think that really happened since there IS outside confirmation. Per the link posted above by Dr. Fessel, the child has been to a counselor and the counselor is the one who brought up the grooming of the child by JS.

    Thomas said she reported her sonís claim to authorities, who decided there was not enough evidence to charge Sandusky with a crime. But a psychologist who worked with her son after the revelation said Sandusky may have been grooming the boy for sexual abuse, Thomas said.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-any-children/


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  13. #157
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    Sandusky and his lawyer are both reckless if they allow any visits with his grandchildren until the trial is over. At the very least.

    I personally don't care about them putting Mr. Sandusky at risk for further (unwarranted) allegations. But I care terribly about protecting those grandchildren. So, if they insist upon visits, and the Sandusky children are reckless enough to agree to visits, I think the only way to handle those, which protects the children and the legal interests of Sandusky is something like this:

    Visits in a neutral place, with an experienced supervising professional, and with a parent. Furthermore, JS and visiting children must remain within view and armslength of the Supervisor at all times. AND there is both video and audio recording made and kept of all visits. With backup copies kept elsewhere.

    That would protect Mr. Sandusky, and if his attorney truly is representing his best interests, then he should jump at the chance to handle visits this way.

    Children should further receive prior education about good touch/bad touch. I'm so worried that some of Sandusky's children are not in a psychological position to represent their children's best interests in this matter.

    And, was the TRO issued against Sandusky lifted once it was determined there was insufficient evidence to charge him wrt the child of Matt and Jill? Since there's a custody issue, and now this question of visitation with JS, is the guardian ad litem for that child still in place?


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  15. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    The trial will be happening quickly, and Sandusky gets time to prepare a defense.

    The fact that another adult is present should eliminate that possibility.
    BBM and respectfully shortened

    One of the victims stated that he turned around in the locker room's restroom to see Jerry standing there ogling him with an erection.

    Jerry now has permission to wander into any public bathroom where young boys can be located as long as he is supposedly investigating with his detective. The detective was not ordered by the judge to "babysit" Jerry in public places where Jerry has a legitimate excuse to have his pants unzipped.

    Imagine what a young victim will feel and think if Jerry exhibits another paraphilia in the Walmart bathroom. (Remember sexual deviants often have more than one paraphilia.) Imagine having to explain to your son what "that weird man" was doing in the bathroom and why "that weird man" seemed to want him to watch what he was doing. Imagine answering your son's 50 questions/day for the next month about "that weird man". Imagine having to tell your son why he shouldn't repeat this story to all the kids at school/the kids in his church youth group/grandmother/his Cub Scout friends. Because kids can't keep a secret, imagine CPS arriving at your son's school and removing him from class in front of everyone to interview him about why he watched a "weird man". Imagine CPS appearing without notice on your porch to interview you and make a complete assessment of the cleanliness of your home, dig into your mental and physical medical history, and assess your financial ability to care for a child.

    Indirect sexual abuse is very unhealthy in many ways.


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  17. #159
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    Pennsfan is close to what I feel and has followed the possibilities further.

    The school kids are living their days next door to a real live bogeyman. Imagine trying to explain to your kid in a reasonable way just why adults and other kids don't trust the man next door. This occurs on other places too, if your luck is bad. But imagine the fifth grade kids telling each other scary stories and the words they use. Oh, but maybe they're all like Paterno, they don't know about that, that scary stuff.

    Then imagine Sandusky imagining what those kids are imagining. Getting off on it? Maybe.

    Yes, If I were a parent or teacher at that school. I'd be angry. I'd be trying to weigh whether the bogeyman effect has crested in four months or whether longer exposure- say a year- will make it cumulatively worse, and I should move my kid. It's not learning a few facts about sexual perversity that I'm thinking of, it's the sense of the proximity of evil.


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  19. #160
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    So....if I understand correctly.....in simple terms.....the judge gave the okay for the grandchildren to visit with Sandusky IF their parents have no problem with visitation. It's not a mandate that they HAVE to.....right? Where it's getting sticky is with Matt & his wife, who are in the divorce process, and the parents are NOT in agreement as to visitation with Jerry?

    If my father--in-law had been accused of what Jer's been accused of I would NOT want my kids/grandkids around him, supervised or not, and I'm pretty sure my hubby would feel the same way if the tables were turned and it was my dad that had been accused.

    It's better to err on the side of caution especially when there are children involved....it's just NOT worth any risk. I'm sorry but pedophiles are a sneaky bunch by their very nature and I wouldn't trust none of them even right in front of my own eyes.

    I realize the Judge has to make decisions within the guidelines of the law (which need some SERIOUS tweaking imo) but it's hard not to wonder if that Judge would want his grandkids hanging out at Jer's house even under "supervision"?
    Everyone sees who you appear to be ... few really know who you are.


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  21. #161
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    [QUOTE=pinktoes;7601886]Sandusky and his lawyer are both reckless if they allow any visits with his grandchildren until the trial is over. At the very least.

    I personally don't care about them putting Mr. Sandusky at risk for further (unwarranted) allegations. But I care terribly about protecting those grandchildren. So, if they insist upon visits, and the Sandusky children are reckless enough to agree to visits, I think the only way to handle those, which protects the children and the legal interests of Sandusky is something like this:

    Visits in a neutral place, with an experienced supervising professional, and with a parent. Furthermore, JS and visiting children must remain within view and armslength of the Supervisor at all times. AND there is both video and audio recording made and kept of all visits. With backup copies kept elsewhere.

    That would protect Mr. Sandusky, and if his attorney truly is representing his best interests, then he should jump at the chance to handle visits this way.

    Children should further receive prior education about good touch/bad touch. I'm so worried that some of Sandusky's children are not in a psychological position to represent their children's best interests in this matter.

    And, was the TRO issued against Sandusky lifted once it was determined there was insufficient evidence to charge him wrt the child of Matt and Jill? Since there's a custody issue, and now this question of visitation with JS, is the guardian ad litem for that child still in place?[/QUOTE]

    BBM

    Not sure about the TRO but in the court order about the visitation, the judge states that the guardian ad litem sent a letter that he thought visits with the DILs children would be in their best interests with certain conditions. The judge did not list the conditions and then referred the matter back to the custody judge to handle.


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  23. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    This just misconstrues what I meant in my post...there is no comparison to mutual adult sexual inclinations/acts, even illegal ones, and those of an adult with a child. This is comparing apples to oranges because it's a whole other mindset and pathology.

    BBM

    With the 'maybe' it's apparent there is disbelief of the GJ presentment which makes the discussion difficult since I'm not looking purely from a legal or defense viewpoint but from the children's viewpoint, wanting justice for them. I believe their testimony.
    Legally, and that is what the judge goes by, there is a lack of belief, because it is yet to be proved. That is simply the way justice in the US is administered, and has been since before the Constitution was adopted.

    Some of the charges, I expect, will be fairly easily proven in court. I would not be surprised if some of the others, those relating to 2000, for example, will difficult to prove.

    Since we have yet to hear their testimony, I don't know if we can believe it or not. Where there are more independent people saying the same thing, it makes me more likely to believe it. In some of these cases, that isn't going to happen.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  25. #163
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    My thoughts are why even bother with visitation under those "abnormal" conditions? Kids aren't stupid and they know when "things aren't right". I just don't see the benefit to the kids.....Jer may enjoy it and get something from it but the kids are definitely going to "sense" that things are odd/unusual/not quite right. A 15 or 30 minute "awkward" visit is not going to be of any benefit to a child. It may make Jer/Dotty feel better but I just don't see anything positive for a kid coming out of a visit like that. You know wherever/however it's done.....the kids are going to sense something is wrong/stressed/abnormal. I just don't think it will be enjoyable for them honestly.
    Everyone sees who you appear to be ... few really know who you are.


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  27. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahmoo View Post

    It's better to err on the side of caution especially when there are children involved....it's just NOT worth any risk. I'm sorry but pedophiles are a sneaky bunch by their very nature and I wouldn't trust none of them even right in front of my own eyes.
    In all seriousness, what risk is there? Presumably the parents will prevent anything from happening, and they can say no. There has no suggestion that Sandusky's children and their spouses sat around and said, **Let's have kids so Pops can molest them.**

    I realize the Judge has to make decisions within the guidelines of the law (which need some SERIOUS tweaking imo) but it's hard not to wonder if that Judge would want his grandkids hanging out at Jer's house even under "supervision"?
    If he was there with them, his answer might very well be yes.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


  28. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahmoo View Post
    My thoughts are why even bother with visitation under those "abnormal" conditions? Kids aren't stupid and they know when "things aren't right". I just don't see the benefit to the kids.....Jer may enjoy it and get something from it but the kids are definitely going to "sense" that things are odd/unusual/not quite right. A 15 or 30 minute "awkward" visit is not going to be of any benefit to a child. It may make Jer/Dotty feel better but I just don't see anything positive for a kid coming out of a visit like that. You know wherever/however it's done.....the kids are going to sense something is wrong/stressed/abnormal. I just don't think it will be enjoyable for them honestly.
    Children of convicted murderers must think the same thing, even if they know their parent did it (even to the other parent).


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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