JP's grandmother Ouita - of "you'll never see your mother again" fame - is buried with her husband Vacil in Grandview Cemetery, Yakima. A lot of this seems to have started with them. Maybe there's a plot there.
Not a burial matter, but: Does anyone know how Mormon theology understands the afterlife of Joshua and Susan and their children? In my limited understanding, the father of a family is the priesthood holder, and he and his wife and unmarried children spend eternity together, but also somehow in contact with other relatives.
Did Josh Powell effectively resign from the church with his horrendous actions? Is he presumed to be in Hell and away from Susan and their boys? Can he be rescued from his fate at some future time with a baptism-by-proxy ritual or did he prevent that remedy by consciously rejecting the church?
As we all should know by now, TOS prevents the bashing of Mormons and this is not an invitation to debate their beliefs. I would merely like to understand what they believe, if anyone here knows.
(ETA to Bessie: after I posted the above, I read your admonition for us to stay on topic. My questions don't seem to require a new thread and it seems related because it deals with issues of whether JP and his victims will share proximity after death. I'm merely asking about their souls now that the issue of their bodies seems to be resolved (well, except for Susan's, of course).)
Last edited by Nova; 02-18-2012 at 10:43 PM.
Whether that could happen in a next life is probably up to a God. I don't know whether the church consciously does baptisms for the dead for those convicted of or suspected of serious crimes. My understanding is that baptisms for the dead are solely to give people an option who did not have the opportunity in this life. Clearly, JP had an opportunity and blew it - at least from what we can see and know. Living on earth is supposed to mean something, a chance to get a body and learn through living in that body and having experiences that can only happen here. I'm not sure whether people who blow that as utterly as he did get a "do-over."
BTW, Brigham Young - if I remember correctly - believed that some of the very wicked would not continue as souls but would be taken apart and reorganized in some way. While Mormons believe that the soul has a personality that existed before earth, and exists after earth (and will be reunited with its perfected eternal body after the 2nd coming), he seemed to think that there were souls so depraved that they were beyond help and they would need to start from scratch. Kind of wild, but when you think about all we are learning about DNA....maybe that just makes it wilder but somehow fitting when we read about people who really seem beyond help. Even Jeffrey Dahmer said he knew he was just completely unable to be helped.
BTW, if I remember correctly, Mormon theology would teach that Susan will be able to raise her boys - that the boys will be able to have a full life.
Maybe this happens in the millenium, the thousand years of peace after Christ's return...can't recall.
Also, because they died at that age, they are considered to have died completely without sin.
Thank you very much, dovebar. I really appreciate you sharing your recall. I'm always interested in what people think and why.
JP, we probably know less about who he might be with or where he is.
BTW, I believe the church is not so pro-cremation - unless it is part of the member's culture (Polynesian, FI?) - because they believe that the body will literally be revived after the Second Coming. Maybe cremation would make this more challenging. :-)
since he was known to hate the mormon faith, did he take on any other faith?
Does SP practise any other faith?
Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
Justice for Hailey!!!!
No Justice for Caylee Marie..........
I ran across this death certificate on inside edition site. Not sure if it's real though.Says cod is carbon monoxide poisoning. Also says he's cremated
I see nothing in your eyes, and the more I see the
less I like. Is it over yet? In my head
I know nothing of your kind and I won't reveal your
evil mind. Is it over yet? I can't wait
~Breaking Benjamin~ "Breath"
I am of the LDS (or "Mormon") faith. We believe that had Josh lived up to the principles of our church, he would have lived in eternity with Susan and the boys. Basically, since he committed such a horrific crime, he will never see Susan or the boys again. Susan will be able to raise her beautiful boys; and she will have the opportunity to find a deserving husband. She has true happiness now and so do the boys.
Dovebar is correct in many the explanation that he/she has provided.
Josh would not have a "baptism for the dead" performed for him. That is saved for those that did not have the opportunity here on this earth to be taught the LDS belief. I will not continue on about our religion, but I just wanted to answer the basic questioned asked.
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I must admit when I heard it said, I thought I misunderstood. That is the belief? It's quite comforting actually. I never thought we could raise our children or find a new spouse after death. Most interesting. I guess I just thought we'd live in eternal happiness without worldly ties. Not that I really give it much thought. I'd rather be surprised.
Maybe this is why the Coxes appear to have a certain calm about them.
Thanks also to dovebar for the insight. While I know a few LDS members, and even use their local family history center for research, we've never spoken about beliefs. Thanks for sharing.
If JP was cremated, I think it was a good choice.
Last edited by Zoe Bogart; 02-21-2012 at 11:34 PM. Reason: typos
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Please pardon any typos. I'm a lousy typist and an even worse proofreader.
Big Brother and the Thought Police have arrived
1984 by George Orwell (1949)
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Justice is the constant and perpetual will to allot to every man his due. Domitus Ulpian
best money i ever spent for those little souls to have a peaceful resting place - so good of the local area crimestoper's and sheriff's office to get this going!
Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........
Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?
"Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight