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The Killing Season - Websleuths

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This page is dedicated to A&E's The Killing Season - an immersive true crime series following filmmakers, Joshua Zeman and Rachel Mills, as they uncover a real-life American nightmare while investigating the Long Island Serial Killer and other unsolved cases across the country.

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  1. #61
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by rotten dingo View Post
    Hi all I've been lurking for quite a while on this and some other WS topics that haunt me. I greatly enjoy reading all of your posts and appreciate the time and effort you all spend on these cases.

    I come from a professional tech background myself. Just wanted to chime in with my unsolicited 2 cents. I can see why some might assume the sk, whoever it is, to be tech-savvy. However, I don't know that we have enough info to really lead us to that conclusion. There are many ways you can cover your tracks (internet, cells, etc) and that info is not hard to get.

    I think as we sit on the sidelines and wonder why a case as horrific as this hasn't been solved, it's easy to assume the sk must be brilliant, tech savvy, extremely cunning, whatever. We (perhaps subconsciously) think he must be intelligent in one or more ways to get away with this for so long. I wonder though, is he just lucky? With it being fairly easy to be anonymous, both in the land of technology and the world of sex-trade, perhaps he is nothing more than an average tech user with some dumb luck? Since most of these cases were not investigated properly/thoroughly upon the victims going missing, he also has time on his side. Perhaps he's just a run-of-the-mill sicko with average tech skills and time and some luck on his side, choosing victims who many regard as disposable... This is a frustrating thought, but I don't believe that makes it any less of a possibility. JMO at this time.

    Anyhow, thanks for all the sleuthing you all do on behalf of victims who are total strangers. It's nice to see so many who feel that all victims deserve justice!
    One doesn't have to look any further than Gary Leon Ridgway to know that you don't have to be a genius to be a serial killer and one that doesn't get caught for over 20 years at that!

  2. #62
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    craigslist killed the killer

    Quote Originally Posted by rotten dingo View Post
    Hi all I've been lurking for quite a while on this and some other WS topics that haunt me. I greatly enjoy reading all of your posts and appreciate the time and effort you all spend on these cases.

    I come from a professional tech background myself. Just wanted to chime in with my unsolicited 2 cents. I can see why some might assume the sk, whoever it is, to be tech-savvy. However, I don't know that we have enough info to really lead us to that conclusion. There are many ways you can cover your tracks (internet, cells, etc) and that info is not hard to get.

    I think as we sit on the sidelines and wonder why a case as horrific as this hasn't been solved, it's easy to assume the sk must be brilliant, tech savvy, extremely cunning, whatever. We (perhaps subconsciously) think he must be intelligent in one or more ways to get away with this for so long. I wonder though, is he just lucky? With it being fairly easy to be anonymous, both in the land of technology and the world of sex-trade, perhaps he is nothing more than an average tech user with some dumb luck? Since most of these cases were not investigated properly/thoroughly upon the victims going missing, he also has time on his side. Perhaps he's just a run-of-the-mill sicko with average tech skills and time and some luck on his side, choosing victims who many regard as disposable... This is a frustrating thought, but I don't believe that makes it any less of a possibility. JMO at this time.

    Anyhow, thanks for all the sleuthing you all do on behalf of victims who are total strangers. It's nice to see so many who feel that all victims deserve justice!
    If there is a skill that the LISK has that is worthy of recognition, it is social not technical. Until 2007 he was able to select individuals from our population that would not easily be missed. These individuals belonged to a select group known as runaways, and our sk knew how to determine if his potential victim was one.

    In fact, I think his downfall was a direct result of technology; his victim selection deteriorated considerably once his process went online. In person you can observe a million things about someone that you can't see over the phone. It's like buying a sweater off amazon, it may seem perfect on that true HD screen and when you read about it, except that isn't a sweater it's a simulacrum, and you are about to buy a crappy sweater that you have never seen, felt, or tried on. Craigslist may be convenient, but it ended the LISK's career. lisk dot dumb.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph View Post
    I think it's plausible for, say, an immigrant whose family still lives in another country, or for someone without family connections. I have seen it posted somewhere that the woman's name was Gia, which could be a foreign name or nickname.

    [This is all rumor, or my own opinion.]
    Oh?
    I never heard a name for her at all, can you find that info? It may help.
    thanks

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskanblue View Post
    . And I'm just writing off the top of my head, perhaps someone else has mentioned this--the real reason I think he can't be the SK is the killer doesn't ever want to deal with a woman who has a driver/pimp. It'd be way too sloppy and risky for him to have her delivered like JB did. He usually picks them up in places where there aren't any prying eyes, then whisks them away. I think all of the Gilgo4 were picked up in this manner.
    RSBM.

    Yes, but at least a few of the Gilgo 4 knew some rich guy out on Long Island who seemed to be part friend, part client.

    If JB is this person and the killer, then of course it would be okay for Shannan to bring her driver on her first visit. That's when he would be building trust with her. Hence staying for three hours when she'd been hired for two. Playing cards. Boundary-blurring.

    Maybe he lost control around Shannan or slipped up and revealed that he was dangerous. Or maybe he and Shannan just didn't hit it off, which seemed to be the case from interviews he has given -- that is, assuming we can believe what he says. She was there for longer than he'd hired her for, so she can't have been all bad, right?

    Plenty of his statements seem self-serving and disingenuous to me. JB has said that he didn't like Shannan's appearance, which has always seemed to me an oddly disrespectful thing to say about someone who, after being a guest in your home, is missing and presumed dead. He said he didn't think she looked like her online photo and has even said he suspected that she was "really" a man, which I think is absurd.

    I do think it's worth pointing out that the Gilgo 4 have a "girl next door" aspect to them that one could argue Shannan lacked -- she seemed more glam than they did. (The LISK asked one of the Gilgo 4 to dress down and she left for her final date wearing jeans and a hoodie.) Shannan was also part Hispanic (if I remember correctly) and this may have been more apparent in person than in whatever photo she was using online. If the killer is a racist, as he seems to be, presumably that would have put him off.

    But again, this may all be smoke and mirrors. Whether he is the killer or not, JB has obviously been trying to distance himself from Shannan, to the point of making disrespectful remarks. One could speculate on his motives for doing that all day long.

    Moo.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by the quiet girl View Post
    Oh?
    I never heard a name for her at all, can you find that info? It may help.
    thanks
    I can't find it in my browser history, but I think it was in the comments of that article with a title something like, "Long Island Serial Killer Suspect May Have Done Nothing Worse Than Just Hiring A Hooker." It had a sort of "hey dood" tone to it. Do you know the one I mean?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph View Post
    I can't find it in my browser history, but I think it was in the comments of that article with a title something like, "Long Island Serial Killer Suspect May Have Done Nothing Worse Than Just Hiring A Hooker." It had a sort of "hey dood" tone to it. Do you know the one I mean?
    ah I just read that one this week
    or one similarly titled but a bit more distasteful.
    thanks

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph View Post
    RSBM.

    If JB is this person and the killer, then of course it would be okay for Shannan to bring her driver on her first visit. That's when he would be building trust with her. Hence staying for three hours when she'd been hired for two. Playing cards. Boundary-blurring.


    Moo.
    Please excuse the snip....can't bold on the iPad.

    I remember reading a quote by JB where it sounded like he was surprised that Shannan brought a driver and he did not sound happy about it. It was a long time ago, but I'll try to find a link. It seems important. Anyone else remember that?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan1122 View Post
    Please excuse the snip....can't bold on the iPad.

    I remember reading a quote by JB where it sounded like he was surprised that Shannan brought a driver and he did not sound happy about it. It was a long time ago, but I'll try to find a link. It seems important. Anyone else remember that?
    Now that you mention it, I do vaguely remember that.

  9. #69
    SmoothOperator's Avatar
    SmoothOperator is offline Sadly what connects all these puzzles is that there's a victim@the heart of each
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    Yes I, too would be interestEd to see that JB was somehow shocked/dismayed to see that Shannan was delivered to his house via her personal driver.. Because in seeing that he didn't provide the transportation for her from Manhatten to Oak Beach(over an hour away) I would find it odd for him to be in the least bit surprised/dismayed to see that she arrived with a driver.. IMO I would think that would have been learned at the onset when setting up the "date" as in he's not providing transportation so I'd believe he'd have known there was a driver and there would actually have to be address/directions that were even given at this time.. Of course unless JB was not a first time client, but from what I gather he was not a repeat or regular john because he claimed to not be pleased with her looks and possibly even questioning her gender which definitely points to the fact that he did not know Shannan or had not met Shannan prior..

    So I'd be interested to see that he was somehow surprised and possibly even dismayed at her showing up with a personal driver..

    Tia if you come upon where you saw that info please post

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph View Post
    RSBM.

    Yes, but at least a few of the Gilgo 4 knew some rich guy out on Long Island who seemed to be part friend, part client.

    If JB is this person and the killer, then of course it would be okay for Shannan to bring her driver on her first visit. That's when he would be building trust with her. Hence staying for three hours when she'd been hired for two. Playing cards. Boundary-blurring.

    Maybe he lost control around Shannan or slipped up and revealed that he was dangerous. Or maybe he and Shannan just didn't hit it off, which seemed to be the case from interviews he has given -- that is, assuming we can believe what he says. She was there for longer than he'd hired her for, so she can't have been all bad, right?

    Plenty of his statements seem self-serving and disingenuous to me. JB has said that he didn't like Shannan's appearance, which has always seemed to me an oddly disrespectful thing to say about someone who, after being a guest in your home, is missing and presumed dead. He said he didn't think she looked like her online photo and has even said he suspected that she was "really" a man, which I think is absurd.

    I do think it's worth pointing out that the Gilgo 4 have a "girl next door" aspect to them that one could argue Shannan lacked -- she seemed more glam than they did. (The LISK asked one of the Gilgo 4 to dress down and she left for her final date wearing jeans and a hoodie.) Shannan was also part Hispanic (if I remember correctly) and this may have been more apparent in person than in whatever photo she was using online. If the killer is a racist, as he seems to be, presumably that would have put him off.

    But again, this may all be smoke and mirrors. Whether he is the killer or not, JB has obviously been trying to distance himself from Shannan, to the point of making disrespectful remarks. One could speculate on his motives for doing that all day long.

    Moo.
    Extremely intriguing post Aleph-good point on the fact that some of the women did have this rich friend/client out on L.I.. And it is indeed possible that JB was beginning to groom her and build her trust, since it appears that she had never been there before. "Boundary blurring"--that's a very astute way of describing it. Perhaps he didn't mind her having a driver because this is how he usually operated. I'm now really wondering how many times the killer would arrange dates with the women before killing them. Oh to be a fly on the wall and know what transpired in that 3 hours. So is there survelliance footage at the store where they bought the deck of cards?

    I think you're correct on the significance that Shannan was more "glam" than the other victims. She didn't have that "girl next door" thing going on. When I heard about him thinking that she was possibly a man, I thought that was rather absurd as well! He really didn't like her appearance? But she was there for 3 hours? That doesn't make much sense. I wonder what photo(s) she used in the ad-she looked alot different in person? Perhaps I'm being naive, but given the circumstances she was there for, couldn't she have just shown him how wrong he was? You could be right, perhaps her ethnicness bothered him. Considering statements he made during the phone calls to Melissa's sister, it's fairly reasonable to believe that the SK is a racist. Regarding the confusion about whether or not he paid her, all of the women require to be paid up front, correct? Of course he isn't going to tell LE that. If he refused to pay her beforehand, wouldn't she have just left at that point? Could there have been some haggling about how much he owed her for the 3rd hour? Maybe this is when he started losing his cool and started freaking her out. Also is there a chance that he forgot about Pak waiting in his vehicle outside and got belligerent with her?

    MOO


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by nugzter View Post
    After reading your post I had an idea. Dahmer slipped his victims drugs to knock them out. He didn't like the killing but it was a means to an end.
    He was sort of a shy "nerdy" guy. Maybe the LISK is also sort of an unsuspecting "nerdy guy". This would explain ,if he was a customer before he killed, why the girls trusted him enough to let down their guard. A "rich tech nerd" who likes kinky stuff. Just a thought.......
    Shy and nerdy--what a perfect way to appear in order to put the girls at ease.

    MOO

  12. #72

    "About Stalking Angle"

    I know the SK called a victims family member, but I am not aware that he actually stalked the family in person. I know it has been stated by LE, Profilers & several news video & reports that he collects cell phones hence his calls.

    But the Stalking personally can you send the links. I am interested in that fact.
    I was under the impression the images, boyfriend photos, Sister info is information that was stored on her cell phone as collecting them may be a signiture etc.. I do not think he actually stalks family in person. I have had video snip its from my cell phones as well as pictures, family #'s web addresses...text messaging info. Photo album direct web site links Captions to photo's.

    So I do think he is tech savy & I do think they have his craigs list cyber finger print....as I linked a video showing a detective has worked on catching predators by knocking on there doors...they had several news outlets doing the stories via cyber finger print.

    I also believe Joesph Brewer is capable of being the SK as Shannan left claiming she was going to be killed & she was found Deceased, as well as Many other "Missing Girls".

    I do not understand or know how someone can say he is a slob unless you actually live with him, work with him or be him. People have habits, work ethics....one is different outside of home than at home. I do know one thing, I have not ever really seen a Successful business person or family not take care of there business. So it said he has a store ? Is it filthy??? You will not be in business long I know that much.

    I think Joseph Brewer could have been dissatisfied with Wife & that could have been the reason for not maintaining, they were seperated @ the time. Who knows how long?

    I am glad you post & "know someone who knows him" but I do not believe stories that are geared to a specific scenerio. I believe he fits the profile to a tee. He made a mistake amongst many IMO ..... I think killers make mistakes & someone who indulge in Cocaine need to be doing something they get Kinda Paraniod which could create one to be quiet methodical IMO. That's a side effect of cocaine, so it fits the profile well IMO. Refer to the Speed Killers......a 15 yr rampage of killing while doing what you say Josaeph Brewer is "KNOWN For".
    So hopefully the info on cell phone storage can explaine the knowing specifics about family members & boyfriends. Textes can be retrieved & stay for a while on ones cell & he is "KNOWN" to like them...could this be why????

    Has your friend talked about his parties & who attends? Like the Speed Freak Killers....one just got released & hung himself (if it was really a suicide like they say it is?) after his Mentor (which IMO Joseph Brewer could be the same type of guy) drew a map to more victims & may be released to show more burial grounds like those in OB area IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskanblue View Post
    Reannan--First off, I'm beginning to really doubt JB is the SK as well. Yes, I would think that Melissa's sister would be able to recognize his voice if he was.

    goathairjones--always interesting to hear information from you locals! Yeah, it didn't surprise me to hear that JB was into the coke. I do think Kimberly Overstreet is right that the sk is into blow and most likely, booze. I have suspicions that the killer may slip date rape drugs/benzos or quaaludes in the girls drinks. I really don't think JB is the SK either, you're right, he's just not meticulous or smart enough to be the guy. And I'm just writing off the top of my head, perhaps someone else has mentioned this--the real reason I think he can't be the SK is the killer doesn't ever want to deal with a woman who has a driver/pimp. It'd be way too sloppy and risky for him to have her delivered like JB did. He usually picks them up in places where there aren't any prying eyes, then whisks them away. I think all of the Gilgo4 were picked up in this manner.

    I'm also wondering about the stalking angle, I know it's not a new theory. He knew what Melissa's sister looked like, that her bf had tattoos on his back. Said he knew where the Barthelemys lived-that's ultra creepy and chilling! Perhaps he follows these girls for awhile in order to pick up on some of their habits (as well as bf's and/or pimps). Could he have taken one of the girls soon after a "date"? Just thinking out loud...

    MOO

  13. #73
    I believe more & more stories that Joseph Brewer could Be the SK....Cocaine goes hand & hand in lots of paraniod thinking. Kinda like when Joseph keep insinuating Shannan was a male, that was stated on 48 hours & it makes sense to me ....hence the deceased males & one in womans clothing. Plus he grabbed Shannan by the back of her head. That goes along with aggressive behavior IMO.....hmmm in fact Joesph Brewer Stated to 48 hour reporter that he had no intention of paying so much circumstantial evidence already IMO people have had less than I see currently & have been convicted. Now Imagine what we don't know

  14. #74
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    Quick rant. I was spoofing phone calls using a linesman phone and building red boxes when I was in 8th grade.

    My friends daughter is 5 and navigates the ipad with no problem.

    My grandma posts on craigslist and facebook.

    This guy isn't anymore skilled then a 5 year old with a plan, the internet to research how to cover his tracks, and a couple of bucks to make it happen.

    Ok, I'm done. =)

  15. #75

    I like the Seperated from wife take he may have used

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskanblue View Post
    Shy and nerdy--what a perfect way to appear in order to put the girls at ease.

    MOO
    I think he may tell them he is seperated from wife & he is conscious about detectives & no devices are to be brought into the gated community Theory. That makes good Sense.....

    I have always been told Watch Out For The Quiet Ones....So I disagree politely, no offense. Just doesn't make any sense unless he uses a subserviant & he is dominate....but than again he would know about cyber finger prints. JMO

    The Drifter????

    I think he would have let a person in who did not recieve much atten & Sociopaths shape them into partners & victims.....like the Speed Freak Killers....Hillside Stranglers.....

    They found a dungeon in Ontario like 50 miles away from buffalo ny.....in an abandon home......Just done recently

    I wish LE just surviellanced it for however long it took to catch the deranged Sadistic criminal....

    Where is that drifter...any1 know?????

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