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  1. #1
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    The beautiful roundabout of Context, Veracity, and JUSTICE
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    State vs Jason Lynn Young 2-27-12

    You can hold back from the suffering of the world. You have free permission to do so and it is in accordance with your nature.
    But perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could have avoided.
    Franz Kafka

    Be not simply good. Be good for something.
    HDT

  2. #2
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    sipping coffee at the Purple Rose Theatre
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    bumping up (thanks to ynot for the new thread!)

    everyone play nice today and remember TOS... ;-)

  3. #3
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    Jun 2011
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    Good morning everyone.

    Does anyone remember who the DT called first in the first trial?

    TIA
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    Good morning everyone.

    Does anyone remember who the DT called first in the first trial?

    TIA
    good morning Talina.

    Last time it was Pat Young, followed by JY's stepfather, followed by his sister Heather and then her husband, JY's brother-in-law. I wonder if it will follow the same this time.

  5. #5
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    What's the court schedule for the day?

  6. #6
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    I believe it starts at 11 this morning. I have a business meeting so I will miss this morning. Thank goodness for having the testimony to watch later. Have a good day, everyone.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by iucpa View Post
    What's the court schedule for the day?
    11am est start time.

    Defense should be calling their first witness this morning.

    IMO
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  8. #8
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    I made it! Looks like I'll be holed up in my hotel room for the day. I'm looking forward to the prosecution resting its case and hearing why the defense asks for a motion for directed acquittal.

    I'll hit the casino during lunch.
    The greatest trespasser on justice still wishes it done to him.

    EDWARD COUNSEL, Maxims

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaMoon View Post
    I made it! Looks like I'll be holed up in my hotel room for the day. I'm looking forward to the prosecution resting its case and hearing why the defense asks for a motion for directed acquittal.

    I'll hit the casino during lunch.
    BBM

    That already happened on Friday.

    Today we start off with the defense calling their first witness.

    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Looking forward to a week of new evidence, and figuring out where the defense is going with their case.

    I have to say, after reading and participating in the weekend thread, I do hope that the jurors are as passionate about justice, and as analytical with the evidence as the posters on this site. They have a tough job ahead of them, and I do not envy their position. Whatever their verdict may be, I hope they will share with the public the basis of their decision.


  11. #11
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    Apr 2011
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    Post Food for thought on the shoe print

    I am a little late to the retrial and did some catching up over the weekend focusing on the major pieces to the case. There seems to be some confusion regarding one of the key pieces of physical evidence: the size 12 Hush Puppies (HP) print.

    FACT: Only 197 HP Orbital brown leather size 12 shoes were made by HP.
    FACT: this shoe had the outsole which could have made that print.
    FACT: JY (evidenced by DSW records) bought a pair in 2005.

    NOT A FACT: only 197 shoes could have made that print.

    Many of you may understand the rest of what I am going to post, the intention is to inform those who do not.

    The outsole (shoe bottom) which made that print was used for 2 production line HP shoe models in 2003 and 2004: the Bellville (a lace-up), and Sealy (slip-on). The outsole was also used for a boot-type shoe (I think it was the Bridgeport).

    Hush Puppies sold 19,000,000 (nineteen million) pairs of shoes in 2006. I do not have figures for 2003-2004 when the Bellville and Sealys were in the main product line, but assuming a steady increase from those years (and not a decrease), lets say 15,000,000 in 2004 and 13,000,000 in 2003.

    So the guesstimate is that HP sold [28,000,000] pairs of shoes in 2003 and 2004.

    In 2003 and 2004 (thanks to wayback machine) I found that HP carried approximately 100 production shoe models per year (mens, womens, kids). 2 of those models were the Bellville and Sealy. So, [2%] or 2/100 shoe models had the outsole which could have made that print.

    If every model sold equally (they most likely did not), then there would have been 560,000 Sealy/Bellville shoes sold in 2003 and 2004. I have no idea how well those models sold, but lets say for a conservative argument's sake they sold at a lower rate than other models, maybe even 50% less - so 280,000 outsoles which could have made that print, even on the assumption they were a low selling shoe.

    More limiting questions: How many of those were size 12? (and 11 if the those sizes shared the same outsole) How many of those were sold in the U.S.?

    I am not going to apply any more guess math, but will lend some general info:

    Size 9-12 are the vast majority of shoes made for men.

    HP does sell intenationally in several countries. I read that in Chile, 1 out of every 8 citizens owns a pair . The U.S. is the largest footwear market in the world - about 40%.

    I would feel confident suggesting that there were at least 25,000 shoes (perhaps as many as 60,000 if the shoe at least sold at a median rate with the rest of the production models) sold in the U.S. with an outsole which could have made that print.

    note: this post is not a defense of JY or a suggestion someone else left that print, just my attempt to clear up a misconception.

    ETA: is it any wonder the State did not have Riha prepared with the actual figures for Sealy/Bellville? He was asked by Def. and replied he didn;t know.

  12. #12
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    Feb 2012
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    The more I think about the defense strategy, the more I think they should start with JY. Get him out in the open, and use their other witnesses to bolster his stories. That way, if things go sour, they don't end with him. And end with Cindy Beaver and anything to bolster her. But I don't think they'll do that, just what I think they *should* do!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrb0124 View Post
    I am a little late to the retrial and did some catching up over the weekend focusing on the major pieces to the case. There seems to be some confusion regarding one of the key pieces of physical evidence: the size 12 Hush Puppies (HP) print.

    snipped for space.
    While we have no idea if any of those numbers (other than the number of Orbitals testified to in this trial) to be accurate or not - an in some instances you, yourself, state you are making assumptions, here's where I venture off in a different direction.

    The HP rep said the other models of shoes that had this sole were not sold by DSW. He said HP shoes were not sold by major stores in Raleigh. He said HP shoes were sold by a couple of boutique stores but didn't know if they sold those two shoes or not when they were being marketed. They did not sell the Orbital. It was only sold by DSW.

    Based on that, I think that severely narrows down the opportunity that very many of these particular shoes (Orbitals or the original style that had this sole style) made their way into the mens closets in Raleigh, NC.

    For sure, in my mind, it is far, far below the number estimated in your post.

    IMO
    Last edited by Talina; 02-27-2012 at 11:11 AM. Reason: correction of redundant sentence
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  14. #14
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    Mar 2011
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    198
    Wow. Thank you for this. Very helpful. Wonder if the defense will call someone to the stand with this same information. You should share it with the defense team.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrb0124 View Post
    I am a little late to the retrial and did some catching up over the weekend focusing on the major pieces to the case. There seems to be some confusion regarding one of the key pieces of physical evidence: the size 12 Hush Puppies (HP) print.

    FACT: Only 197 HP Orbital brown leather size 12 shoes were made by HP.
    FACT: this shoe had the outsole which could have made that print.
    FACT: JY (evidenced by DSW records) bought a pair in 2005.

    NOT A FACT: only 197 shoes could have made that print.

    Many of you may understand the rest of what I am going to post, the intention is to inform those who do not.

    The outsole (shoe bottom) which made that print was used for 2 production line HP shoe models in 2003 and 2004: the Bellville (a lace-up), and Sealy (slip-on). The outsole was also used for a boot-type shoe (I think it was the Bridgeport).

    Hush Puppies sold 19,000,000 (nineteen million) pairs of shoes in 2006. I do not have figures for 2003-2004 when the Bellville and Sealys were in the main product line, but assuming a steady increase from those years (and not a decrease), lets say 15,000,000 in 2004 and 13,000,000 in 2003.

    So the guesstimate is that HP sold [28,000,000] pairs of shoes in 2003 and 2004.

    In 2003 and 2004 (thanks to wayback machine) I found that HP carried approximately 100 production shoe models per year (mens, womens, kids). 2 of those models were the Bellville and Sealy. So, [2%] or 2/100 shoe models had the outsole which could have made that print.

    If every model sold equally (they most likely did not), then there would have been 560,000 Sealy/Bellville shoes sold in 2003 and 2004. I have no idea how well those models sold, but lets say for a conservative argument's sake they sold at a lower rate than other models, maybe even 50% less - so 280,000 outsoles which could have made that print, even on the assumption they were a low selling shoe.

    More limiting questions: How many of those were size 12? (and 11 if the those sizes shared the same outsole) How many of those were sold in the U.S.?

    I am not going to apply any more guess math, but will lend some general info:

    Size 9-12 are the vast majority of shoes made for men.

    HP does sell intenationally in several countries. I read that in Chile, 1 out of every 8 citizens owns a pair . The U.S. is the largest footwear market in the world - about 40%.

    I would feel confident suggesting that there were at least 25,000 shoes (perhaps as many as 60,000 if the shoe at least sold at a median rate with the rest of the production models) sold in the U.S. with an outsole which could have made that print.

    note: this post is not a defense of JY or a suggestion someone else left that print, just my attempt to clear up a misconception.

    ETA: is it any wonder the State did not have Riha prepared with the actual figures for Sealy/Bellville? He was asked by Def. and replied he didn;t know.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    251
    Glad you clarified the fact more then 197 pairs of shoes could have made this print. Lots of mis information on this.

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