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  1. #1
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    **Verdict watch weekend discussion thread** 3/3-4/2012

    Deliberations began Friday at 1016am and we are officially on verdict watch! Deliberations will not continue until Monday...
    _____


    This thread is for weekend discussion of the case.


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  3. #2
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    You can hold back from the suffering of the world. You have free permission to do so and it is in accordance with your nature.
    But perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could have avoided.
    Franz Kafka

    Be not simply good. Be good for something.
    HDT


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  5. #3
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    Thanks for the new thread ... bringing my comment from the other thread over as I would like to hear how others interpret this list

    I don't think there is absolute proof that Jason was or was not involved. What I see is a prosecution theory where all sorts of circumstantial points have been strung together to reinforce the theory that Jason is guilty.

    What has the proseuction presented:

    - an unplugged camera that cannot be connected to Jason
    - a questionable gas attendant witness that added new information to her testimony after she admittedly didn't remember anything about the customer in her store
    - prints in places that should match Jason, but don't
    - a theory about medicine with nothing to connect the medicine to Jason or the child (no evidence she was drugged)
    - two pair of shoes but no explanation why Jason would wear size 10 shoes to commit a strangulation murder
    - a motive of millions of dollars but at the same time Jason knew that as a suspect he could not claim the millions
    - allegations of a prior murder attempt and an accident investigator that attended the scene stating that everyone was wearing a seatbelt, that it was an accident in a place where accidents had happened before
    - adultery
    - dishonesty about the adultery
    - sexual dysfunction in the marriage
    - two people that participate in loud verbal disagreements in public
    - an unhappy marriage
    - a missing shirt, missing worn out hush puppy shoes, missing size 10 shoes
    - a husband that was advised not to speak to police because he was immediately considered a suspect
    - some investigation into possible suspects at a nearby trailer park that did not produce any leads
    - vehicles seen at the property from 3:30 or 4 AM until about 6 AM.
    - porch and driveway lights on (could have been left on the from the night before)
    - missing items but no insurance claim for those missing items
    - a poor planner that fails to calculate the amount of gas required to make the 510 mile trip but plans other details such as two pair of shoes for a strangulation murder
    - an unfaithful husband that was in contact with his mistress before and after the murder, making no attempt to hide his frequent contact with his mistress
    - no video surveillance on the 10 cameras at the hotel showing all of Jason's movements (morning activity)
    - an unplugged camera
    - no murder weapon
    - a child that acts out the murder with play figures and identifies the mother figure, but not the figure that is "spanking" the mother figure for "biting" (she was familiar enough with both parents to identify both of them if the father was involved)

    Did I miss anything? I don't see the above as proof of murder. It appears to be the case that investigators assumed that Jason was guilty and that they looked for circumstances that would support their theory.


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  7. #4
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    From the other thread ...

    Quote Originally Posted by gritguy View Post
    Wait, Fred you're saying a brutal killer who is there to rob and knows just where to find a wallet without leaving blood evidence of looking for it and who prefers some jewelry to others but yet who DOES NOT tamper with or take MY's purse is an unlikely scenario?

    You're saying that waiting until 6 months after the murder to say, "But wait it was burglary there were some things missing" could merely be an attempt to protect the hiding son?

    If you're saying that, if that's what you're saying - I AGREE!
    Investigators knew right away that the rings were missing because they had the body and Meredith was communicating with them. They also knew about the missing tooth container through Meredith (this was a family heirloom). It was later that the wallet with $500 was noticed mising. There was no 6 month delay before investigators knew that items were missing from the master bedroom.


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  9. #5
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    After a quick glance at your post, otto, I immediately saw 2 things I disagree with

    Missing worn out hush puppy shoes ???

    Who said he intended to be a suspect if his original plan worked out? That $4MM life insurance was sitting out there as a straight flush and he was willing to gamble.

    I see many of your others add your subjective slant on the evidence...personally I see it in a totally different light.


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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    ... It appears to be the case that investigators assumed that Jason was guilty and that they looked for circumstances that would support their theory.
    That's what I fear too Otto. If you look hard enough you can find links. Whenever Internet history comes up in these cases, for example, I shudder to think what assumptions would be made about me if my Internet history was presented a certain way. On another Internet board, my avatar is Frances McDormand holding a gun In a Fargo shot. One day, someone accused me of being a gun toting redneck! I've never held a gun in my life - I just love that movie! I like Pulp Fiction too - perhaps if I change to Uma Thurman I could be viewed as a heroin addict ... I think I'd like that better than a gun toting redneck! But, I digress ...

    I think we all bring different life experiences to the table. Some of us just think that there's a decent chance he didn't do this ....


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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    From the other thread ...



    Investigators knew right away that the rings were missing because they had the body and Meredith was communicating with them. They also knew about the missing tooth container through Meredith (this was a family heirloom). It was later that the wallet with $500 was noticed mising. There was no 6 month delay before investigators knew that items were missing from the master bedroom.
    It was up to the homeowner to file an inventory of missing items "stolen" from the home. The fact no personal property was claimed in addition to $27,000 property damage is highly suspect.


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  15. #8
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    Bringing this over from the last thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post

    Probably because....

    JY found out his FIL was not coming into town that weekend (opportunity)

    JY left Raleigh and decided to only drive 170 miles to a hotel for an appointment that was 310 miles away

    JY checked into the HI in a light colored shirt

    JY was seen an hour later in a dark colored shirt on HI cameras - that shirt has never been found despite numerous search warrants served on Young's residences & storage lockers

    JY wasn't seen on any cameras after the last one caught him close to midnight, and a camera was unplugged at 11:20 p.m.; and then shoved skyward at 6:35 a.m. Why? Yes it happened 9 years before, but why tonight? Timeframe proves he could have gone to Raleigh & back in the times those cameras were tampered with

    JYs phone goes totally silent in the hours the murder happened

    JY said he had the continental breakfast at the hotel, when infact the breakfast was bagged that morning

    JY was 35 minutes late to a first time appointment, and I'm not buying he got lost because he did have a map (construction or not, he knew which exit to take - those searches tell you turn by turn - the map is in evidence) and based on the first phone call at 7:40 a.m., that tells me that's when he got in the car to make the drive from Hillsville to Clintwood, which takes 2 hours & 56 minutes... perfect timing!

    JY was more concerned with calling his mistress 980 times in october than in fixing his marriage

    JY had sex with two women other than his wife in October

    JY upped the life insurance without Michelle's knowledge, she thought $1m was excessive could you imagine her reaction to $4m

    JY would be happy if Michelle just let him have women on the side

    JY & MY were fighting more often in the month before her death

    I could go on & on... but those are huge for me!

    I'd love to hear an explanation of how the twig makes him not guilty. He got back to the hotel and noticed it was removed, he had to have an excuse as to why he did that. Also the hotel door. If someone would have closed it during the night, he would have had to just say he got locked out. No one noticed, because even if they do they are not going to pull it closed incase you meant to leave the door like that while going for ice, etc... he just lucked out on the room door, IMO.
    As of noon on the day of the business trip, Jason did know that his father in law was not visiting. The business trip was not planned and booked by him. He had other friends visiting that weekend. How does that go to opportunity?

    What does driving halfway to the meeting place have to do with the murder? The rest of the route was a winding road that he was unfamiliar with ... good idea to drive it during daylight.

    Jason went outside to smoke a cigar on a cold, windy night ... why wouldn't he put on an extra shirt?

    Nothing connects Jason to the camera except the fact that he was at the hotel and his wife was murdered that night. He did not try to avoid being seen by the cameras at midnight when he was stepping out to smoke and no cameras captured him arriving in the morning. If his door was not latched through the night, why wasn't it noticed either time that the night audit clerk interacted with the room door?

    Jason didn't use his phone at the time when he said he was sleeping. Silent phones in the middle of the night don't mean anything.

    Invesitgators also got lost using Jason's mapquest map, supporting Jason's claim that he got lost.

    I think that Jason and Michelle had both given up on their marriage. Jason sought other women, Michelle sought counselling to help get her life back on track.

    If Michelle thought that one million in insurance was excessive, she wouldn't have taken a policy through her profesional organization for that amount. We don't know what she did not agree with upping the amount ... we only have the testimony from a friend who admittedly never liked Jason.

    I missed the information about breakfast ... are you saying that there was no breakfast at the hotel that morning ... only take out bags?


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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Thanks for the new thread ... bringing my comment from the other thread over as I would like to hear how others interpret this list

    I don't think there is absolute proof that Jason was or was not involved. What I see is a prosecution theory where all sorts of circumstantial points have been strung together to reinforce the theory that Jason is guilty.

    What has the proseuction presented:

    - an unplugged camera that cannot be connected to Jason
    - a questionable gas attendant witness that added new information to her testimony after she admittedly didn't remember anything about the customer in her store
    - prints in places that should match Jason, but don't
    - a theory about medicine with nothing to connect the medicine to Jason or the child (no evidence she was drugged)
    - two pair of shoes but no explanation why Jason would wear size 10 shoes to commit a strangulation murder
    - a motive of millions of dollars but at the same time Jason knew that as a suspect he could not claim the millions
    - allegations of a prior murder attempt and an accident investigator that attended the scene stating that everyone was wearing a seatbelt, that it was an accident in a place where accidents had happened before
    - adultery
    - dishonesty about the adultery
    - sexual dysfunction in the marriage
    - two people that participate in loud verbal disagreements in public
    - an unhappy marriage
    - a missing shirt, missing worn out hush puppy shoes, missing size 10 shoes
    - a husband that was advised not to speak to police because he was immediately considered a suspect
    - some investigation into possible suspects at a nearby trailer park that did not produce any leads
    - vehicles seen at the property from 3:30 or 4 AM until about 6 AM.
    - porch and driveway lights on (could have been left on the from the night before)
    - missing items but no insurance claim for those missing items
    - a poor planner that fails to calculate the amount of gas required to make the 510 mile trip but plans other details such as two pair of shoes for a strangulation murder
    - an unfaithful husband that was in contact with his mistress before and after the murder, making no attempt to hide his frequent contact with his mistress
    - no video surveillance on the 10 cameras at the hotel showing all of Jason's movements (morning activity)
    - an unplugged camera
    - no murder weapon
    - a child that acts out the murder with play figures and identifies the mother figure, but not the figure that is "spanking" the mother figure for "biting" (she was familiar enough with both parents to identify both of them if the father was involved)

    Did I miss anything? I don't see the above as proof of murder. It appears to be the case that investigators assumed that Jason was guilty and that they looked for circumstances that would support their theory.
    Thanks for bringing your post over. A few you didn't mention that I think are some of the strongest pieces of CE are:

    -Cassidy was picked up and carried to bathroom, cleaned up, and diaper removed (no stranger would do that)
    -The shirt he was wearing when he left the hotel at midnight (that there is video proof of) was not on his person the next day, in his car, or in his luggage....so where is it? And the HP shoes?
    -Sister in law was called by JY(for the first time EVER) to go INTO their home ASAP to get a print out on the printer. (he needed her to rescue CY and discover the body).
    -Cameras tampered with at 11:20pm, shortly after JY arrived and shortly before he left the hotel. Retampered with at 6:37am when lines up perfectly with the timeline of JY's return to the hotel. Mind you the cameras haven't been tampered with in YEARS!
    -Doors that JY would use at hotel were propped open so key card wasn't needed.
    -Spontaneous trip to Brevard that was out of the way. (He didn't want to go straight home until someone had found the body.)
    -"Robber" walked right by MY's pocketbook TWICE and didn't steal from it!
    -OVERKILL stongly indicates someone who knew the victim and did not like them.
    -No forced entry, dog not harmed and left in house, CY not harmed....again, very likely not a stranger who did this.

    In my opinion, JY is either the unluckiest guy in the world for all of the coincidences or he had something to do with the murder of MY. (Just my respectful opinion). I do appreciate the dialog from either side of the fence, so I'm always open to hear both arguments. IMO, it's a good thing none of us at WS are on this jury b/c it seems most of us have our heels dug in and can't be budged! There's no way I would switch to NG with the evidence at hand, but I may be willing to compromise with the NG side to 2nd degree even though I feel it's first degree. For the record, I am stubborn. I hope the jurors aren't (unless of course they are on the G side ) JMO


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  19. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just the Fax View Post
    After a quick glance at your post, otto, I immediately saw 2 things I disagree with

    Missing worn out hush puppy shoes ???

    Who said he intended to be a suspect if his original plan worked out? That $4MM life insurance was sitting out there as a straight flush and he was willing to gamble.

    I see many of your others add your subjective slant on the evidence...personally I see it in a totally different light.
    Me too. All the evidence in this case screams guilty to me. Absolutely nothing points to anyone but Jason. jmo

    ETA: And the camera wasn't just unplugged. And the cameras hadn't been messed with for how many years yet they just happened to be on that particular night when Jason was at that particular hotel and his wife was beaten to death.


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  21. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just the Fax View Post
    After a quick glance at your post, otto, I immediately saw 2 things I disagree with

    Missing worn out hush puppy shoes ???

    Who said he intended to be a suspect if his original plan worked out? That $4MM life insurance was sitting out there as a straight flush and he was willing to gamble.

    I see many of your others add your subjective slant on the evidence...personally I see it in a totally different light.
    Per the prosecution theory, two pair of shoes are missing: a size 10 pair and a size 12 pair. The size 12 pair were associated with a receipt for the purchase of a pair of similar size 12 shoes from 1.5 years earlier. The size 10 shoes are not connected with Jason. Since the size 12 shoes were everyday shoes, I'm assuming that they were worn out after 1.5 years.

    How could he possibly believe that he would not be a suspect after increasing the insurance a couple of months after it was purchased; a couple of months before the murder. It has "motive" written all over it, as does the frequent, regular contact he had with his mistress and his adultery in the month prior to the murder.


  22. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post

    I don't think there is absolute proof that Jason was or was not involved. What I see is a prosecution theory where all sorts of circumstantial points have been strung together to reinforce the theory that Jason is guilty.

    It appears to be the case that investigators assumed that Jason was guilty and that they looked for circumstances that would support their theory.
    Yes otto, a very long string of CE, when taken in it's entirety, shows JLY murdered MY. IMO, far beyond a reasonable doubt.

    "Looked for circumstances" to support their theory?
    Ahh, yea they sure did. Those circumstance were not made up, they happen to be fact. Should all that damning evidence be ignored because LE focused on him? Not sure what your point is?


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  24. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just the Fax View Post
    It was up to the homeowner to file an inventory of missing items "stolen" from the home. The fact no personal property was claimed in addition to $27,000 property damage is highly suspect.
    It really doesn't matter who has to notify the insurance company that items were mssing from the home. The point is that investigators were well aware of missing items right after the murder ... there was no six month delay.


  25. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    From the other thread ...



    Investigators knew right away that the rings were missing because they had the body and Meredith was communicating with them. They also knew about the missing tooth container through Meredith (this was a family heirloom). It was later that the wallet with $500 was noticed mising. There was no 6 month delay before investigators knew that items were missing from the master bedroom.
    Jason's own Mother testified to not telling because she was mad at the investigators.


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  27. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Per the prosecution theory, two pair of shoes are missing: a size 10 pair and a size 12 pair. The size 12 pair were associated with a receipt for the purchase of a pair of similar size 12 shoes from 1.5 years earlier. The size 10 shoes are not connected with Jason. Since the size 12 shoes were everyday shoes, I'm assuming that they were worn out after 1.5 years.

    How could he possibly believe that he would not be a suspect after increasing the insurance a couple of months after it was purchased; a couple of months before the murder. It has "motive" written all over it, as does the frequent, regular contact he had with his mistress and his adultery in the month prior to the murder.
    Sorry otto, you have no idea how often JLY wore those shoes.
    The only time I saw them on his feet was at the cracker barrel and leaving the hotel on 11-3-06. Do you have other sightings?

    Increasing insurance to $4,000,000 2 months before his wife is murdered shows clear motive. He was clever enough to increase his limits at the same time....



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