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Thread: **Verdict watch weekend discussion thread** 3/3-4/2012

  1. #901
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerGirl43 View Post
    No not Franklins.. Would have been better if they were.. They hardly had any shoes.... But the fact remains he could NOT fit in foot into a size 10 comfortably.....

    And I stand by what I have always said NOT every person is the same... So what Mr. Gracielee can do or ur hubbys players doesn't mean it will work for Jason.. Everyone is different..... For example I wear a size 8.... When my grandmother passed I was given some of her things.. Some were shoes.. She wore a 6... My foot would not fit in the shoe unless my heel was hanging off...
    I say JY big boat oar foot would NOT have fit into the size 10.... His foot looks just like hubbys...


    MOO MOO MOO
    Oh man, what I would have done to see this in court!!

    Shades of Jason grimacing like Cinderella's step~ sisters trying to put their foot in the glass slipper,
    no way the Size 10 shoe would fit him.



    Hey, I wonder if the Jurors could still ask for such a demonstration!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gracielee View Post
    And I stand by my experiment with mr gracielee. He wore my size 8 Ryka's, walked around our kitchen for a couple minutes without losing his balance. If anybody locally wants to bring their camera over here and video him, I can probably get him to demonstrate, but I refuse to allow him to beat me over the head as he's doing it. Balance was NOT an issue at all. We have two big dogs chasing after him, thinking it was some sort of game. Still he did not lose his balance. But he's normally a pretty active guy. He does a lot of gardening, yard work, and does not look his age at all. He's kept active all his life, and luckily doesn't have any problems with either arthritis, balance issues, or any sort of back problems.
    And I stand by my story with MrSteeler.... Just proves my point that EVERYONE is different.... What may work for ur hubby my not work for others & vice versa...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerGirl43 View Post
    And I stand by my story with MrSteeler.... Just proves my point that EVERYONE is different.... What may work for ur hubby my not work for others & vice versa...
    Yep!!

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  7. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerGirl43 View Post
    No not Franklins.. Would have been better if they were.. They hardly had any shoes.... But the fact remains he could NOT fit in foot into a size 10 comfortably.....

    And I stand by what I have always said NOT every person is the same... So what Mr. Gracielee can do or ur hubbys players doesn't mean it will work for Jason.. Everyone is different..... For example I wear a size 8.... When my grandmother passed I was given some of her things.. Some were shoes.. She wore a 6... My foot would not fit in the shoe unless my heel was hanging off...
    I say JY big boat oar foot would NOT have fit into the size 10.... His foot looks just like hubbys...


    MOO MOO MOO
    BBM... so the experiment is basically a moot point, since all manufacturers sizes do vary slightly. The hubs said back then he wore a 10 1/2, but with Franklins would be a size or so bigger depending on the shoe type. His size has increased to a 12 or more depending on the shoe since his feet were both crushed in a motorcycle accident in his late 20s after his competitive playing days were over.

    And hey, we actually agree on something... everyone is different! From opinions & theories of what actually happened, to how we view the evidence, to whether or not we can shove our foot into a smaller shoe and actually wear them for a short time.

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  9. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post
    She also had to endure a therapeutic abortion a week or so after finding out the pregnancy was no longer viable, which she found out a week after the accident. I've had miscarriages and it does take a long time to recover from them, and you are generally advised to let your body heal for 3 months or longer before TTC again. I believe she probably ovulated a couple of weeks after her procedure without having a normal period first. It happens, but it is rare.


    everytime I tried to google anything related to M YOUNG and miscarriage, half my results were about Michelle DUGGAR! ~ It was makin me mad

    I had read she found out several weeks later at a regular doctors appt and I had read it happened in 2005, then with JY's mom explaining about a parade JY was avoiding the day that the accident happened was actually 2 days earlier...

    well I thought I wuz in the T W I L I G H T zone!

    OH~ and about the shoes! lol
    I was not seeing the problem BUT!!! I danced in toe shoes
    for 5 years! I know foot pain well. I know what it feels like
    to cram your foot in a wooden box and leap!
    Good thing I'm not on the jury!

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  11. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerGirl43 View Post
    And I stand by my story with MrSteeler.... Just proves my point that EVERYONE is different.... What may work for ur hubby my not work for others & vice versa...
    Very true. As mr gracielee said, one has far more incentive to 'make it work' if one has just brutally beaten his wife to death and really *needs* those size 10 footprints to *work*.

    When I first brought my size 8 Ryka's downstairs and asked mr gracielee to put them on, he said 'no way, I can't squeeze my feet into those.' But I persisted, 'just give it a try'. 'We are attempting to see if JLY could wear a smaller size shoe and leave footprints in blood.' So mr gracieless, patiently sat down on one of our kitchen chairs and pushed his foot as far inside my size 8's as he could. Then he stood up and began walking around the kitchen. He even shifted his body up on his toes and back down on the whole foot again. That's when he said 'I wouldn't want to walk a mile in your shoes, but wearing them long enough to commit a crime, no problem, especially if my freedom depended upon it.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post
    BBM... so the experiment is basically a moot point, since all manufacturers sizes do vary slightly. The hubs said back then he wore a 10 1/2, but with Franklins would be a size or so bigger depending on the shoe type. His size has increased to a 12 or more depending on the shoe since his feet were both crushed in a motorcycle accident in his late 20s after his competitive playing days were over.

    And hey, we actually agree on something... everyone is different! From opinions & theories of what actually happened, to how we view the evidence, to whether or not we can shove our foot into a smaller shoe and actually wear them for a short time.


    BBM

    So then MrGracielees would be also.... Both cancel each other out...

    Im sure we would agree more if it were a different case such as the CA case...LOL!!! Most cases I say guilty right away.... I just feel something isnt right with this case & have to vote NG....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just the Fax View Post


    Hard to say for sure...there is a 3/4" white border on the USA Today.
    Too bad the desk clerk could not recall why he was at the front desk.
    The bend on that Atlas or Paper is strange! Looks like his right hand is not holding it, no matter what it is; and I think that would be hard to do no matter what it was. As for Meredith's number being on the Atlas, the Atlas was probably open on his seat and he jotted the number there to repeat to his mother when he called her to have her call Meredith to go get the all important eBay printouts.

    No matter what he's holding here in this photo, the more important questions are where are THOSE shoes? And where is THAT shirt?!?! They couldn't disappear on their own from 12 midnight on 11/3 until the cops seized the SUV at Merediths house later that evening. MOO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grammy Jean View Post
    I just do not see the logic in your thinking. Are you saying you believe some random person was just watching the Young home and after Shelly left they got in and brutally beat MY to death (just because). and this random person had a random accomplice who took CY out for a ride in MY's Lexus. Then both random people left the house without a drop of blood downstairs. To me that makes no reasonable sense.
    Cammy didn't suggest the perp is someone "random." I don't see any logic whatsoever in your assumption that the only possible suspects are either the husband or someone "random."

    There is a possibility it was someone Michelle knew either through work or socially or that it could be someone who targetted her, such as happened in the Pettit murders.


    JMO

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  19. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerGirl43 View Post
    And I stand by my story with MrSteeler.... Just proves my point that EVERYONE is different.... What may work for ur hubby my not work for others & vice versa...
    IMO, I think the more relevant point proved by both experiments is that it was possible for Jason to wear size 10s, since everyone is different.

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  21. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post
    The bend on that Atlas or Paper is strange! Looks like his right hand is not holding it, no matter what it is; and I think that would be hard to do no matter what it was. As for Meredith's number being on the Atlas, the Atlas was probably open on his seat and he jotted the number there to repeat to his mother when he called her to have her call Meredith to go get the all important eBay printouts.

    No matter what he's holding here in this photo, the more important questions are where are THOSE shoes? And where is THAT shirt?!?! They couldn't disappear on their own from 12 midnight on 11/3 until the cops seized the SUV at Merediths house later that evening. MOO
    The part I bolded makes a lot of sense to me.

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  23. #912
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    Just for the sake of putting yourselves in someone else's shoes (bad analogy in this trial), for those that are on the NG side, what do you think are the State's 3 strongest pieces of evidence for GUILT, and for those on the G side, what do you think are the Defense's 3 strongest pieces of evidence for NOT GUILTY. Everyone has pointed out the one's that they think support their position.

    My vote is for GUILTY, but the 3 pieces that I think are the strongest for the Defense are:

    -2 witnesses that saw a SUV near the driveway of home b/w 5 and 6am.
    -Gracie's testimony being questionable
    -clean NTO

    Anyone else willing to play? I think this will give an interesting perspective and may help this group be less divided and snarky ;o)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post

    No matter what he's holding here in this photo, the more important questions are where are THOSE shoes? And where is THAT shirt?!?! They couldn't disappear on their own from 12 midnight on 11/3 until the cops seized the SUV at Merediths house later that evening. MOO
    ^^^This!

    ps........ seat belt is irrelevant as well.



    "She loved him so much that this is what she did to him, there are no mitigating circumstances in this case. None, the only just punishment is death."

    "The time for honouring yourself, will soon be at an end. . .highness"

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  27. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
    Oh man, what I would have done to see this in court!!

    Shades of Jason grimacing like Cinderella's step~ sisters trying to put their foot in the glass slipper,
    no way the Size 10 shoe would fit him.



    Hey, I wonder if the Jurors could still ask for such a demonstration!
    So, Cammy, this is OT but just curious did you believe in the innocence of OJ as much as you believe in the innocence of JY????

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  29. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Just for the sake of putting yourselves in someone else's shoes (bad analogy in this trial), for those that are on the NG side, what do you think are the State's 3 strongest pieces of evidence for GUILT, and for those on the G side, what do you think are the Defense's 3 strongest pieces of evidence for NOT GUILTY. Everyone has pointed out the one's that they think support their position.

    My vote is for GUILTY, but the 3 pieces that I think are the strongest for the Defense are:

    -2 witnesses that saw a SUV near the driveway of home b/w 5 and 6am.
    -Gracie's testimony being questionable
    -clean NTO

    Anyone else willing to play? I think this will give an interesting perspective and may help this group be less divided and snarky ;o)
    Great idea.

    My vote is NOT GUILTY. These are the strongest pieces for the Prosecution:

    --Hushpuppies
    --JY proven to lie about the little things on the stand.
    --JY leaving the HI, but not seen coming back in or using his key card.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnadot View Post
    IMO, I think the more relevant point proved by both experiments is that it was possible for Jason to wear size 10s, since everyone is different.
    True... But it could also be possible he could NOT wear the shoes.... So the PT if they wanted to prove he wore the size 10 should have brought a size 10 in and made him put the shoes on... Simple as that!!!

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  33. #917
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    24. LARGE item missing from table, could have been possible murder weapon. We'll never know for sure because the defendant didn't walk through the house and identify anything missing.
    Fran, you posted this in the other "hook" thread, and I didn't want to muck it up with questions/arguments. I missed the testimony about something missing from the table. Who testified to this? And how does he/she know something large was missing without knowing what it was?

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  35. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerGirl43 View Post
    True... But it could also be possible he could NOT wear the shoes.... So the PT if they wanted to prove he wore the size 10 should have brought a size 10 in and made him put the shoes on... Simple as that!!!
    That's kind of the point, yes? Maybe he couldn't, but it's possible that he could - simple as that. And no, the PT asking Jason to try on the shoes wouldn't have meant a thing, since it's proven Jason is a liar, I don't believe for one second he would have made an honest go of getting his feet into size 10s for a jury or LE, or just for the PT, etc.

    IMO

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  37. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Just for the sake of putting yourselves in someone else's shoes (bad analogy in this trial), for those that are on the NG side, what do you think are the State's 3 strongest pieces of evidence for GUILT, and for those on the G side, what do you think are the Defense's 3 strongest pieces of evidence for NOT GUILTY. Everyone has pointed out the one's that they think support their position.

    My vote is for GUILTY, but the 3 pieces that I think are the strongest for the Defense are:

    -2 witnesses that saw a SUV near the driveway of home b/w 5 and 6am.
    -Gracie's testimony being questionable
    -clean NTO

    Anyone else willing to play? I think this will give an interesting perspective and may help this group be less divided and snarky ;o)
    I've listed 3, but they're not my opinion of what makes JY look guilty, rather what I think the jury could use to decide he is guilty...and to be honest, I think it will all come down to the first one:

    I think the jury could view the hush puppy shoes as the 'smoking gun' and decide based on them that JY was at the crime scene.

    Testimony from GC(ex-fiance) that JY had a violent incident with her.

    JY's behavior between MY's death and the trial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerGirl43 View Post
    BBM

    So then MrGracielees would be also.... Both cancel each other out...

    Im sure we would agree more if it were a different case such as the CA case...LOL!!! Most cases I say guilty right away.... I just feel something isnt right with this case & have to vote NG....
    Even the CA case at first I didn't think she was guilty... go figure that! I was in the Orlando airport when the story hit, and I felt so bad for this young mother that her baby was missing. Fast forward, and of course my opinion changed dramatically. I try not to jump to a G or NG until I start hearing the evidence, and IMO both the CA case and the JY case have overwhelming CE. Both cases the accused were the only ones with Means, Motive & Opportunity in my eyes. Moo....

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  41. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnadot View Post
    That's kind of the point, yes? Maybe he couldn't, but it's possible that he could - simple as that.
    But until today people have acted like it was the gospel that he could wear the shoes... Now we all know its possible he may not have.. Simple as that ;-) Really none of us know.... You say he could I say he couldnt.... What does the jury think?? Or do they even think about the size 10.. I know I would really be thinking why didnt they expound on the shoes..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfpack View Post
    Fran, you posted this in the other "hook" thread, and I didn't want to muck it up with questions/arguments. I missed the testimony about something missing from the table. Who testified to this? And how does he/she know something large was missing without knowing what it was?
    IIRC, it was Meredith who testified to that. She was the one who did a walk through of the house afterwards, since JLY refused.

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  45. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracielee View Post
    IIRC, it was Meredith who testified to that. She was the one who did a walk through of the house afterwards, since JLY refused.
    Thank you! Do you know the answer to the 2nd half? I assume some sort of dust splotch or something?

  46. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post
    Even the CA case at first I didn't think she was guilty... go figure that! I was in the Orlando airport when the story hit, and I felt so bad for this young mother that her baby was missing. Fast forward, and of course my opinion changed dramatically. I try not to jump to a G or NG until I start hearing the evidence, and IMO both the CA case and the JY case have overwhelming CE. Both cases the accused were the only ones with Means, Motive & Opportunity in my eyes. Moo....
    Really?? WOW!! Yea she was definitely guilty.... I agree with the CE , but theres just something about the JY case that makes me think NG... I cant explain it...

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  48. #925
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    Wolfpack,
    It was MF in the first trial - I think !! I don't recall saying it this time.

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