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Thread: **Verdict watch weekend discussion thread** 3/3-4/2012

  1. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grammy Jean View Post
    Could you post a link to Gen saying she thought Josh did not believe her. I really have no recollection of that. I certainly felt Josh did believe her. He testified to how upset she was when she came to the door.
    IIRC her testimony wasn't that Josh didn't believe it happened. I believe her testimony was that Josh didn't believe it was as violent and threatening towards Gen as Gen believed it to be. Josh didn't say he didn't believe it didn't happen and certainly testified that she was very upset.

    I felt from watching her testimony that she felt Josh thought she was over reacting when describing what JY had done to her.

    IMO
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

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  3. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grammy Jean View Post
    Could you post a link to Gen saying she thought Josh did not believe her. I really have no recollection of that. I certainly felt Josh did believe her. He testified to how upset she was when she came to the door.
    It is in the beginning of her testimony from this trial, that Josh did not seem to think it was that bad.
    I was shocked to hear her say that, as she did not say it last time.
    She mentioned then going in the room to talk to Julie Dalton ..

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  5. #1078
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    Quote Originally Posted by cody100 View Post
    I do not know where they are. If the pic was better and they were HP, then I am fine with the assumption that he was at the scene. And he moves to the Guilty side. I just have trouble assuming they were HP Orbitals. LOMom, they may well be. To be honest, it frustrates me. I surely wish those images were better.
    The hush puppy witness who said they shoes in the pic are "consistent with" hush puppy orbitals was in CYA mode. He wasn't going to use more direct language because he couldn't be sure they were indeed hush puppy orbitals or the HPs in question.

    What shoes did JY say he was wearing? Was he asked that when he testified?

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  7. #1079
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromageball View Post
    The hush puppy witness who said they shoes in the pic are "consistent with" hush puppy orbitals was in CYA mode. He wasn't going to use more direct language because he couldn't be sure they were indeed hush puppy orbitals or the HPs in question.

    What shoes did JY say he was wearing? Was he asked that when he testified?
    Isn't "consistent with" language that is customarily used by expert witnesses as nothing is ever 100%?

    IMO
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

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  9. #1080
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    Quote Originally Posted by cody100 View Post
    I know and I so do not want it hung. I believe this was probably the reason the first trial was Hung. And, I am afraid it may be another Hung Jury this time. Perhaps they might reach a compromise of G second degree even though it does not fit that category by definition. I think that is why JS put it in. He doesn't want a Hung Jury again either. I bet there probably is one of both of us sitting on that jury. LOL
    Cody, don't think of the shoes JLY was last seen wearing as HP's. Just think of them as *round-toed shoes*. They were on his feet along with the dark colored shirt with the white stripe on his body. Both of those items were missing from his luggage when he returned to Fuquay. Everyone involved in the case, JLY's mother, step father, sister, all testified NOTHING was removed from his vehicle. Meredith, Pat, Linda, all testified those shoes were NOT on his feet when he arrived in Fuquay. The police did not find them in his vehicle, just like they didn't find the dark shirt with the light stripe. Shoes & shirt he was last seen wearing are missing.

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  11. #1081
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post
    Thanks! The thing I'm seeing says they were 0 seconds all the way up to 278 seconds, so she definitely ignored a bunch of them and IMO would of incited anger on his part that she was refusing to speak to him.

    I'd love the detailed call reports, and don't know if they are in evidence; but another source I'm seeing he NEVER called home that much ever... why on this night, right before she ends up beaten to death.

    His last call home was 11:04-11:09, so they did talk then.
    Jason called a few times when Shelle was still there and she testified that Michelle asked him to call back when Gray's Anatomy was over.

    We knw they must have had a pretty good conversation, because Shelle said everything seemed fine, and Michelle must have told Jason the plot of GA, because MM said he was teasing her about it and going to tell her how it ended.

    Sound like a guy with murder on his mind???

  12. #1082
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    The HP bother me, but the missing shirt is the smoking gun.

    If the missing shirt cannot be reasonably explained (and it wasn't), then that is clear evidence that JY covered up the crime. WHERE IS THAT SHIRT???

    It's like the PT said in closing, if JY's story was true that he testified to on the stand in June, then it should have been easy for him to tell that story from the very beginning and help LE find the killer(s) of his wife and unborn son.

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  14. #1083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
    It is in the beginning of her testimony from this trial, that Josh did not seem to think it was that bad.
    I was shocked to hear her say that, as she did not say it last time.
    She mentioned then going in the room to talk to Julie Dalton ..
    Hindsight being what it is, I'd be surprised if Josh has that opinion today.

    Josh did say in his testimony that he immediately went to speak to JY in his room and left Gen there with Julie. To me, that does suggest that he did take it seriously.

    It could be that Gen completely read Josh's reaction wrong and Josh was trying to stay calm to defuse the situation.

    All my speculation, of course.
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

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  16. #1084
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
    I am saying that after the murder happened, and if CY was crying and upset ,
    that someone could have taken her from the home, take her fro a drive to calm her down.

    That would also explain the car sightings with a car similiar, if not, the same as Michelle's.

    In Michelle's car was CY's carseat.

    The other person stayed behind and cleaned up, and when CY was brought back, the 2 people left the house together..

    You may not understand the logic, but apparently LE did because they also thought CY was taken from the home, and issued a s/warrant for Michelle's Lexus.

    Hope this helps.
    This does not help me see it your way. Again I see no logic here. You think a random killer and accomplice entered the Young household and one brutally killed MY or do you think they both did the killing. Somehow CY got blood all over her bathroom and the random accomplice decided to be kind and take CY for a drive to calm her down and used MY's car because it had a car seat but there is no blood in MY's car. Nope no matter how far I try to stretch my thinking this makes no sense.

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  18. #1085
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    Quote Originally Posted by gngr~snap View Post
    Pros:
    Not asking any questions about what happened
    Calls to MF sil
    Daddy gave me fruit

    Defense:
    No transfer to his vehicle
    ?
    ?
    I am trying!!!
    The Daddy gave me fruit snacks was after CY"S nap, and was not allowed into trial , as CY was talking about animals in a barn and other things that did not make a lot of sense.

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  20. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grammy Jean View Post
    This does not help me see it your way. Again I see no logic here. You think a random killer and accomplice entered the Young household and one brutally killed MY or do you think they both did the killing. Somehow CY got blood all over her bathroom and the random accomplice decided to be kind and take CY for a drive to calm her down and used MY's car because it had a car seat but there is no blood in MY's car. Nope no matter how far I try to stretch my thinking this makes no sense.
    It was LE's theory as well, pursuant to the search warrant issued July 24, 2007.

  21. #1087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
    Jason called a few times when Shelle was still there and she testified that Michelle asked him to call back when Gray's Anatomy was over.

    We knw they must have had a pretty good conversation, because Shelle said everything seemed fine, and Michelle must have told Jason the plot of GA, because MM said he was teasing her about it and going to tell her how it ended.

    Sound like a guy with murder on his mind???
    BBM

    Yes. JY was calling Michelle to make sure no one was going to spend the night with her. He had to make sure she would be the only adult in the house for his plan to work.

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  23. #1088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    Isn't "consistent with" language that is customarily used by expert witnesses as nothing is ever 100%?

    IMO
    I think so, but here I don't think it means much because he was looking at a grainy photo where the shoes can barely be made out.

    I think prosecution asked a couple other questions about square toe/other attributes and had him confirm those, which made the shoe "consistent with" the same attributes of HP orbitals, but I don't think we can take that as anywhere near certainty that JY was wearing the HPs in those pics.

  24. #1089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
    It was LE's theory as well, pursuant to the search warrant issued July 24, 2007.
    A theory that they apparently ruled out. I'd venture to guess that LE had more than a few theories they ruled out during the investigation. That is what SW and other parts of a thorough investigation involved. Then they follow the evidence, wherever it leads.

    In this case, the evidence led them to JY.

    IMO
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

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  26. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
    What was different in the civil case that enabled the jury to find him responsible for the death?
    The burden of proof is not as high, but, the real reason is because Jason did not show up .

    The civil suit was won by default.

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  28. #1091
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    I hope and pray that when JY left Brevard Sunday afternoon to head back to Raleigh that he saw Brevard for the very last time in his life.

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  30. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarheel8600 View Post
    I hope and pray that when JY left Brevard Sunday afternoon to head back to Raleigh that he saw Brevard for the very last time in his life.
    Did they go back to Brevard for the week-end? I just assumed they'd stay in Raleigh.

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  32. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracielee View Post
    Yes, even if you can't agree they were hush puppy's, they were round-toed shoes. No round-toed shoes in JLY's luggage. None. And they weren't on his feet. So where are the round-toed shoes? Where is the dark colored shirt he was wearing. You don't have to call 'em hush puppies. Just call 'em round-toed shoes. Regardless of what you call them, they are MISSING.
    This is a key point. Even if one believes JY either no longer had those HP shoes or he 'lent them out' I guess to the soon to be perp, the ones he was wearing in the CB video and on the video as he is exiting the hotel at midnight (same rounded toe) were not in his luggage, not in his vehicle, not at his mother's home, and not left in the hotel. That, along with his missing dark pullover, have no innocent explanation. I believe his pants are missing as well--the ones he wore while checking into the hotel.

    3 items of clothing that were never seen again, on the same night his wife is murdered, for which we do have visual confirmation he owned and wore.

    Where are those items?

    They didn't come marching into court.

    The conclusion is neither a stretch nor a twist. He got rid of them between midnight and 3:30pm 11/3/06.

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  34. #1094
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracielee View Post
    Did they go back to Brevard for the week-end? I just assumed they'd stay in Raleigh.
    My information is that they go home on the weekends. If I find out differently, I will let you know.

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  36. #1095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
    It was LE's theory as well, pursuant to the search warrant issued July 24, 2007.
    Yes, I know they even at that time thought perhaps MF took her away in that car. So as I said before that was LE checking out everyone close to MY as a suspect. MF answered all questions and took and passed a polygraph. So that theory did not hold up. Of course again BC still tried to cast suspicion on MF in his cross examining of her trying to make her out to be untruthful in the 911 call. I call that desperate and despicable and can not believe even one juror would suspect MF of any involvement.

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  38. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    This is a key point. Even if one believes JY either no longer had those HP shoes or he 'lent them out' I guess to the soon to be perp, the ones he was wearing in the CB video and on the video as he is exiting the hotel at midnight (same rounded toe) were not in his luggage, not in his vehicle, not at his mother's home, and not left in the hotel. That, along with his missing dark pullover, have no innocent explanation. I believe his pants are missing as well--the ones he wore while checking into the hotel.

    3 items of clothing that were never seen again, on the same night his wife is murdered, for which we do have visual confirmation he owned and wore.

    Where are those items?

    They didn't come marching into court.

    The conclusion is neither a stretch nor a twist. He got rid of them between midnight and 3:30pm 11/3/06.
    Yes, and all on the same night that a security camera is tampered with twice at the hotel where JY was staying. How is even believable that these incidents are not related??

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  40. #1097
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    Quote Originally Posted by borndem View Post
    I was in toe shoes as well, gngr -- and even though they "fit," they hurt!! But you do it -- talk about scrunched-up toes -- straighten them out -- get over it!! And no pedicures allowed...

    The toe end of the shoe that your toes are in is called a "box"! Gel pads help a little for a while -- you can put a few down feathers or lamb's wool in between -- but you dance anyway. And your feet are knarled, bruised, and they stay mad at you however long you do en pointe. And for me, heyell was a new pair of pointe shoes! And calluses are a dancer's best friend -- I can spot an en pointe foot from 5 feet away, can't you, gngr?
    yes ma'am a foot that folds 4 ways! Top to bottom and side to side!
    we didn't have gel inserts on the ark! Just lambs wool! lol

    No shoes no shirt no weapon no clue! Just a murder scene with little more than the DNA and fingerprints (a few hairs and prints) of the only three family members known to live in that house one is dead the other was 2)

    lucky/unlucky remains to be seen I guess depending on who ya are!
    All posts are MOO

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  42. #1098
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOMom View Post
    You are 100% speculating as to why a search warrant was issued for the Lexus. I don't ever recall that LE believed that CY was taken from the home and they never put forth that they believed Michelle's car was used by the killer in the commission of the crime. Was there a possibility that JY hid evidence in the car? Yeah, so they're going to check it out.


    No speculation at all !!

    This is what it said, and I have posted this over and over.

    The search warrant was issued because:

    "Due to the situation with the child's bloodied footprints vs. the clean condition of the child's feet, when found,the confusion over the keys to the decedent's vehicle and how they came to be placed on the kitchen table, and MF's keys being found on the on the hood of the decedent's vehicle, it is believed that the 2000
    Silver Lexus RX 300 could have been used to transport the child from the scene.
    If this was the case, there may have been transference of blood from the scene to the vehicle using the child for conveyance"

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  44. #1099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfpack View Post
    Actually, that was the reason they wrote for executing the warrant. So, whether or not LEO actually thought it was a possibility, they put it in writing.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerGirl43 View Post
    Actually Cammy is correct... The warrant says In order to maintain the clean condition the child was discovered, removal from the scene would have been the simplest action...
    Thank you, I just reposted again, what the search warrant said.

  45. #1100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cammy View Post
    No speculation at all !!

    This is what it said, and I have posted this over and over.

    The search warrant was issued because:

    "Due to the situation with the child's bloodied footprints vs. the clean condition of the child's feet, when found,the confusion over the keys to the decedent's vehicle and how they came to be placed on the kitchen table, and MF's keys being found on the on the hood of the decedent's vehicle, it is believed that the 2000
    Silver Lexus RX 300 could have been used to transport the child from the scene.
    If this was the case, there may have been transference of blood from the scene to the vehicle using the child for conveyance"
    What I continue to find disturbing is that a search warrant had to be issued to begin with.

    iMO
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

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