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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrainneDhu View Post
    Makes me wonder if LM's FB password was easily guessable. Or if her email password was easily guessable (which would make it easy to get the FB password re-set).

    These were posts of SC's so he could have deleted his own messages, regardless of where he posted them.
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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
    That is one of the things I don't get... Destiny has at least two tattoos.
    The one you see her getting in the pictures (posted right after her 16th birthday) and the one described in the articles on her other leg.

    I would not let my 16 year old daughter get a tattoo, because they don't need to be deciding on something that is going to be there forever.

    I had thought maybe she had it done without permission, though she didn't seem like the type to do that.

    It appears she had permission. IF that is the case... and she had parental permission... then I'm even more confused.
    Why is Destiny capable of deciding to put two tattoos on her body, which will be there forever...
    Yet not capable of choosing her own friends or relationships... when to spend time with them... who likely won't be around forever.

    I guess maybe not everyone sees tattoos as a big deal... but sees friendships as potentially more damaging?
    Maybe the friends have more of an impact on the education area of things?
    I would just personally rather them not make any major decisions until they are older.
    I don't know... the responsibility of choosing a tattoo but not responsible enough to choose friends has just been bugging me...
    This may well not apply at all but FWIW...

    I know from personal experience that when dealing with a really unhappy adolescent, it's easier to give way on things you might not ordinarily consider, like unusual piercings or tattoos, just because the kid is so unhappy that giving way on a few things to make them happy is an attempt to build a bridge to them.

    And really, neither piercings nor tattoos are permanent. You can remove body jewellery and get laser treatment for tattoos.

    If your kid was choosing friends who were heavily into doing and dealing drugs, might you not feel that a tattoo or two would be less damaging? I know I would.


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  5. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by GrainneDhu View Post
    This may well not apply at all but FWIW...

    I know from personal experience that when dealing with a really unhappy adolescent, it's easier to give way on things you might not ordinarily consider, like unusual piercings or tattoos, just because the kid is so unhappy that giving way on a few things to make them happy is an attempt to build a bridge to them.

    And really, neither piercings nor tattoos are permanent. You can remove body jewellery and get laser treatment for tattoos.

    If your kid was choosing friends who were heavily into doing and dealing drugs, might you not feel that a tattoo or two would be less damaging? I know I would.
    Also, tats are simply not a big deal for some people, and don't carry any negative connotations or raise special concerns. It's just something you do. In my family of origin, the idea of having a baby's ears pierced carried all sorts of negative connotations, but in other families it's done all the time. It looks like this may be just a tattoo-loving family.
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  7. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
    That is one of the things I don't get... Destiny has at least two tattoos.
    The one you see her getting in the pictures (posted right after her 16th birthday) and the one described in the articles on her other leg.

    I would not let my 16 year old daughter get a tattoo, because they don't need to be deciding on something that is going to be there forever.

    I had thought maybe she had it done without permission, though she didn't seem like the type to do that.

    It appears she had permission. IF that is the case... and she had parental permission... then I'm even more confused.
    Why is Destiny capable of deciding to put two tattoos on her body, which will be there forever...
    Yet not capable of choosing her own friends or relationships... when to spend time with them... who likely won't be around forever.

    I guess maybe not everyone sees tattoos as a big deal... but sees friendships as potentially more damaging?
    Maybe the friends have more of an impact on the education area of things?
    I would just personally rather them not make any major decisions until they are older.
    I don't know... the responsibility of choosing a tattoo but not responsible enough to choose friends has just been bugging me...
    I am 31 now, and things may have changed - but when I was 17, I got a tat in Chicago without my parent's permission. It wasn't at some back-alley place - it was a regular tattoo shop on the Southside. So, FWIW, her parents may not have been a party to the decision.
    Last edited by Simply Caustic; 03-06-2012 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Maybe I should READ THE WHOLE POST first. You stated she may have not had permission/but likely did! My bad.


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  9. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
    That is one of the things I don't get... Destiny has at least two tattoos.
    The one you see her getting in the pictures (posted right after her 16th birthday) and the one described in the articles on her other leg.

    I would not let my 16 year old daughter get a tattoo, because they don't need to be deciding on something that is going to be there forever.

    I had thought maybe she had it done without permission, though she didn't seem like the type to do that.

    It appears she had permission. IF that is the case... and she had parental permission... then I'm even more confused.
    Why is Destiny capable of deciding to put two tattoos on her body, which will be there forever...
    Yet not capable of choosing her own friends or relationships... when to spend time with them... who likely won't be around forever.

    I guess maybe not everyone sees tattoos as a big deal... but sees friendships as potentially more damaging?
    Maybe the friends have more of an impact on the education area of things?
    I would just personally rather them not make any major decisions until they are older.
    I don't know... the responsibility of choosing a tattoo but not responsible enough to choose friends has just been bugging me...
    I can see the decision on allowing DG to get tats as a minor two ways. In one way it may appear as being too permissive. On the other hand, it may be a means to be permissive in one area as a means of making up for being too protective in another.

    I wish we knew more about the relationship between DG and LM prior to their disappearance. More specifically, what about the relationship were DG's parents so unhappy with? What types of complaints were made that lead to her termination?


    At 17, DG was close to embarking on adult life. She was scheduled to graduate early (according to family posts on the bring DG back FB page.) In real life 'networking' is a big plus to get business contacts, job openings and the like. If DG's college and career interests were in line with those LM had networking contacts, what exactly was the problem with their relationship? At least according to DG's parents?

    I tend to get the impression, there were some adult decisions DG was allowed to make, while in other ways she was still handled with kid gloves. Possibly because she was the baby of the family. According to the FB pages it appears DG's older half siblings are all grown adults with their own family. Is this a case mama and papa G didn't want to let their baby fully grow up?

    Something precipitated such an extreme decision as running off together, what is it?

    I realize legally DG is not yet an adult. Not legally able to sign a contract or do a number of things... Was there any family discussions regarding this relationship between LM and DG? Were there any discussions where DG was permitted to have a voice in any of this or was it just her parents decision?

    As difficult as it is for parents, the teen years are years where kids need to start learning independence. Was DG allowed this independence? If she was going off to college and going to be living on campus, she needed to be learning how to be independent responsibly. Is it possible they ran off because DG was smothered in this area?

    I'm not saying what they did was right. It clearly is not. I'm simply trying to understand the circumstances which led to such an extreme decision.
    ~JMO~

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  10. #51
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    I have quite a different approach on a 17 year old and these are just my opinions. Having a 17 year old who is now in an 'emotional crisis' and who not only went to that school but now is in another alternative school, I feel these are tough schools with kids who have problems and issues. I never wanted to send my daughter there originally as she is a complete follower and the kids at these types of school are into a lot of wrong things (not all of them and I'm not talking directly about D). I hold my 17 year old extremely close and know that if I didn't she would be sitting in jail right now as she has made some bad decisions. I monitor all my daughter's friends and would think it is very abnormal for a teacher to be contacting my daughter outside of school in any form (fb, phone, twitter, etc). I would be on the phone immediately with the school stopping it. The main reason is why would a 'normal' teacher (of any adult age) want to hang out with a 17 year old - unless there was an issue with the adult. I thought I'd just put it out there as another way to think about a 17 year old. My daughter and I are very close but I truely believe she would have left with 'someone' too and not thinking about 'forever'. My daughter's comment was 'how is shaving her legs' - lol!!!

    We keep praying daily and hope for her safe and speedy return!!


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyingeagle View Post
    I have quite a different approach on a 17 year old and these are just my opinions. Having a 17 year old who is now in an 'emotional crisis' and who not only went to that school but now is in another alternative school, I feel these are tough schools with kids who have problems and issues. I never wanted to send my daughter there originally as she is a complete follower and the kids at these types of school are into a lot of wrong things (not all of them and I'm not talking directly about D). I hold my 17 year old extremely close and know that if I didn't she would be sitting in jail right now as she has made some bad decisions. I monitor all my daughter's friends and would think it is very abnormal for a teacher to be contacting my daughter outside of school in any form (fb, phone, twitter, etc). I would be on the phone immediately with the school stopping it. The main reason is why would a 'normal' teacher (of any adult age) want to hang out with a 17 year old - unless there was an issue with the adult. I thought I'd just put it out there as another way to think about a 17 year old. My daughter and I are very close but I truely believe she would have left with 'someone' too and not thinking about 'forever'. My daughter's comment was 'how is shaving her legs' - lol!!!

    We keep praying daily and hope for her safe and speedy return!!
    Thank you flyingeagle. By no means am I trying to discount DG's parents choices in my previous post. Or place blame other than were it is due, and that is squarely on LM, imo. I'm trying to ask the questions to leave no stone left unturned in an attempt to find answers.

    We don't know the reasons why DG was placed in an alternative school. We do know that she was succesful enough to be ready to graduate early. That takes some self discipline, imo. We also know she was looking forward to college. (Based on family and friends posting on the We Want Destiny Gruba Back! FB page) She appears to have been making some strides ahead of schedule for her age group.

    If DG was 'mentally instable' in some sort of way, her missing persons report would have been classified differently. (Previous postings regarding the legal standards for kidnapping iirc.... ) Based on what we know, DG did not qualify, or fit into whatever those higher standards were.

    Again, answers are what we are seeking. Answers to help bring ALL 5 home safely. And few people are talking. It's unusual based on my experience here at WS to see so little of family talking, by that I mean LM's family. Usually we'll see something on FB or in MSM comments. Sometimes family finds us and seeks our assistance. We have countless family members who are members here at WS.

    DG's family appears to be treating her as much younger than 17. They appear to be treating her as someone incapable of making appropriate choices for a 17 yr old, why?

    It is definately NOT normal for any adult, particularly a teacher, to run off with a student. It's beyond comprehension, imo, that LM's life partner appears to be oblivious to whatever emotional problems she was suffering or kept well hidden. She cut of her mother, than earlier this year her friends. That is NOT normal behavior. It's hard to say what the source is, mental illness, a drinking problem, a combination of both? But it should have raised some alarms, why didn't it?

    It's also hard to tell how many of LM's supportive friends are friends she has here in her real life now, or are these many friendships from back east before she moved to Chicago to start college?

    So many unanswered questions. And I hope these friends and family are aware LE is probably spending very little time on this case. In a community of close to 10 million people, LE simply does not have the time or resources to spend countless hours looking for a single mom and her kids (because technically she is not married and there is no custody agreement) or a teenage runaway. In these cases it really IS up to the family to hit the pavement and push for more media involvement and more awareness. And sadly, we are seeing very little of that.......

    Last edited by Cubby; 03-06-2012 at 12:32 PM.
    ~JMO~

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  14. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    *snip8 It is definately NOT normal for any adult, particularly a teacher, to run off with a student. It's beyond comprension, imo, that LM's life partner appears to be oblivious to whatever emotional problems she was suffering or kept well hidden. She cut of her mother, than earlier this year her friends. That is NOT normal behavior. It's hard to say what the source is, mental illness, a drinking problem, a combination of both? *snip*
    IMO, it is not all that abnormal to have cut people off if they were very disapproving of (and possibly hounding her about) something monumental in her life that she felt very strongly about, or if she imagined they would feel or behave that way (rightly or wrongly) and couldn't find a way to interact comfortably without telling them about it.

    I am speaking completely theoretically and hypothetically here, because we don't know what the situation is. For the moment, let's use similar facts and in addition, add to our hypothetical facts that there is a romantic love attachment. Putting aside anyone's views on homosexuality in general, what would make it wrong? The two main things are (i) one party is legally a minor and (ii) one party was the other party's teacher.

    I submit that love is oblivious to both of those things.

    Attraction to and love for a physically mature 17 year old is not pedophilia and IMO, it is not disordered, even for a 29 year old. In a matter of months, DG will be legally an adult. A person exercising perfect prudence would grit their teeth and wait until December to avoid potential legal issues, but I have seen people do far crazier things in the name of love.

    Being in a position of trust when you develop feelings is also not ideal, but again, I have seen people do far crazier things. Again, a person exercising prudence would find some way to fend off the feelings or wait until the younger person graduated (not very long in this case). But really... what is so different between now, and six or ten months from now? Would either of them be a different person? Would anything really have changed for anyone, other than a few formalities and the status of having passed some arbitrary legal line?

    Running away and hiding (if that is what they are doing) is another story and would be troubling - IF they did it.
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~


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  16. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    IMO, it is not all that abnormal to have cut people off if they were very disapproving of (and possibly hounding her about) something monumental in her life that she felt very strongly about, or if she imagined they would feel or behave that way (rightly or wrongly) and couldn't find a way to interact comfortably without telling them about it.

    I am speaking completely theoretically and hypothetically here, because we don't know what the situation is. For the moment, let's use similar facts and in addition, add to our hypothetical facts that there is a romantic love attachment. Putting aside anyone's views on homosexuality in general, what would make it wrong? The two main things are (i) one party is legally a minor and (ii) one party was the other party's teacher.

    I submit that love is oblivious to both of those things.

    Attraction to and love for a physically mature 17 year old is not pedophilia and IMO, it is not disordered, even for a 29 year old. In a matter of months, DG will be legally an adult. A person exercising perfect prudence would grit their teeth and wait until December to avoid potential legal issues, but I have seen people do far crazier things in the name of love.

    Being in a position of trust when you develop feelings is also not ideal, but again, I have seen people do far crazier things. Again, a person exercising prudence would find some way to fend off the feelings or wait until the younger person graduated (not very long in this case). But really... what is so different between now, and six or ten months from now? Would either of them be a different person? Would anything really have changed for anyone, other than a few formalities and the status of having passed some arbitrary legal line?

    Running away and hiding (if that is what they are doing) is another story and would be troubling - IF they did it.
    Excellent post! I fully agree and you bring up some very important points.

    What I find troubling, is we have to add into the mix, LM has also made the choice to cut her boys off from their father. IF they ran off, somewhere in the mix is the decision to decide against coparenting and making the choice to cut off ALL contact between her sons and their father - IF she has made the choice to end that relationship. We know from an unverified previous poster, LM's mother chose to leave LM's father within a week or two of LM's birth, for reasons only one side can share. At least to our knowledge. As a never married single mother myself, I have seen far too many examples of he said she said to ever take what one says about the other non involved parent as the gospel truth. I'm not saying LM's mother was dishonest, just saying it was an example set for LM, which she could be following now.

    BBM. In additional to avoiding potential legal problems, WHY would any logical person wish for someone to not accomplish their current goals? Goals that we know of being to graduate early, get her drivers license, start college. (at least according to the Bring Destiny Gruba Back! FB group.) I think a well rounded emotionally healthy person, would not encourage someone to throw away those soon to be realized achievements.

    I agree running and hiding it would be another troubling story, if that is what has happened here.



    I just wish they would all come home. There is a way to do this legally without running, if that's the case. And without alienating SC and his children who he has just as much a right to as their mother.
    ~JMO~

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  18. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Excellent post! I fully agree and you bring up some very important points.

    What I find troubling, is we have to add into the mix, LM has also made the choice to cut her boys off from their father. IF they ran off, somewhere in the mix is the decision to decide against coparenting and making the choice to cut off ALL contact between her sons and their father - IF she has made the choice to end that relationship. We know from an unverified previous poster, LM's mother chose to leave LM's father within a week or two of LM's birth, for reasons only one side can share. At least to our knowledge. As a never married single mother myself, I have seen far too many examples of he said she said to ever take what one says about the other non involved parent as the gospel truth. I'm not saying LM's mother was dishonest, just saying it was an example set for LM, which she could be following now.

    BBM. In additional to avoiding potential legal problems, WHY would any logical person wish for someone to not accomplish their current goals? Goals that we know of being to graduate early, get her drivers license, start college. (at least according to the Bring Destiny Gruba Back! FB group.) I think a well rounded emotionally healthy person, would not encourage someone to throw away those soon to be realized achievements.

    I agree running and hiding it would be another troubling story, if that is what has happened here.



    I just wish they would all come home. There is a way to do this legally without running, if that's the case. And without alienating SC and his children who he has just as much a right to as their mother.
    Interfering with DG's life goals would be troubling.

    It is possible we do not actually have a clear picture of DG's life goals or what's really important to her.
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~


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  20. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    Interfering with DG's life goals would be troubling.

    It is possible we do not actually have a clear picture of DG's life goals or what's really important to her.

    Thank you. That's one of the things I've been trying to get at here. There is a HUGE difference, imo, between keeping a close eye on our children and providing them opportunities and guiding direction, allowing them to blossom into the person they wish to become based on their individual interests. Versus parents imposing their own interests on their children - whether those children share those interests in what their parents desire for them. I'm not sure what the case is here regarding DG's own interests and family situation. And if that is what perhaps led them to run.

    No stone left unturned.
    ~JMO~

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  22. #57
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    Snipping for length and to address just a few things...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    We don't know the reasons why DG was placed in an alternative school. We do know that she was succesful enough to be ready to graduate early. That takes some self discipline, imo. We also know she was looking forward to college. (Based on family and friends posting on the We Want Destiny Gruba Back! FB page) She appears to have been making some strides ahead of schedule for her age group.
    I don't really understand the 'graduating early' references here and on FB. When would she be graduating? If she's 17, isn't that the normal age for a senior in high school, anyway--at least one born at the time of year DG was? I remember when I was a senior, some of us were 18 at graduation and some were 17. Just wondering about that part because it's had me a little confused.

    Again, answers are what we are seeking. Answers to help bring ALL 5 home safely. And few people are talking. It's unusual based on my experience here at WS to see so little of family talking, by that I mean LM's family. Usually we'll see something on FB or in MSM comments. Sometimes family finds us and seeks our assistance. We have countless family members who are members here at WS.
    LM's family may feel out-of-place posting online about this, because of the circumstances in this case. I'm sure they know of the animosity toward LM for doing this, and may think that talking online about it might make matters worse. They know LM.

    DG's family appears to be treating her as much younger than 17. They appear to be treating her as someone incapable of making appropriate choices for a 17 yr old, why?
    Probably because she's missing, and everything changes when that happens. I don't know what other choices she made in her past, but she is in an alternative school and she did make an inappropriate choice in her relationship with her teacher. So I can understand how they are responding.

    It is definately NOT normal for any adult, particularly a teacher, to run off with a student. It's beyond comprehension, imo, that LM's life partner appears to be oblivious to whatever emotional problems she was suffering or kept well hidden. She cut of her mother, than earlier this year her friends. That is NOT normal behavior. It's hard to say what the source is, mental illness, a drinking problem, a combination of both? But it should have raised some alarms, why didn't it?
    I'm not sure where the notion that LM's life partner is/was oblivious to her problems comes from. I don't think we know that. As to her family and friends... think about it. She was pretty much on her own in Chicago for a long, long time. Her family was far away. Then, about a year ago, her mother moves close by. LM might have felt some of her freedom was gone. If the timeline we've been given is correct, it wasn't long after her mother moved to IL that problems developed in that relationship. Perhaps LM has felt stifled for a long time. Whether SC knew that, I don't know, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he knew what was going on with LM.


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  24. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarthaM View Post
    Snipping for length and to address just a few things...



    I don't really understand the 'graduating early' references here and on FB. When would she be graduating? If she's 17, isn't that the normal age for a senior in high school, anyway--at least one born at the time of year DG was? I remember when I was a senior, some of us were 18 at graduation and some were 17. Just wondering about that part because it's had me a little confused.



    LM's family may feel out-of-place posting online about this, because of the circumstances in this case. I'm sure they know of the animosity toward LM for doing this, and may think that talking online about it might make matters worse. They know LM.



    Probably because she's missing, and everything changes when that happens. I don't know what other choices she made in her past, but she is in an alternative school and she did make an inappropriate choice in her relationship with her teacher. So I can understand how they are responding.



    I'm not sure where the notion that LM's life partner is/was oblivious to her problems comes from. I don't think we know that. As to her family and friends... think about it. She was pretty much on her own in Chicago for a long, long time. Her family was far away. Then, about a year ago, her mother moves close by. LM might have felt some of her freedom was gone. If the timeline we've been given is correct, it wasn't long after her mother moved to IL that problems developed in that relationship. Perhaps LM has felt stifled for a long time. Whether SC knew that, I don't know, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he knew what was going on with LM.
    In IL one has to be age 5 by Sept 1st to enroll in KG. Based on DG's dob she would be in her junior, not senior yr this year. However we don't know when she was on target to graduate early. Nor do we know which grade level she was at, Junior or Senior this year.

    FWIW, whatever perceived animosity may be out there, it is in no way reason to stay quiet about missing family members, imo.

    My thoughts on people, particularly SC, being unaware of what was transpiring in LM's life is based on how sometimes emotional closeness blinds us in our decision making. It's not at all uncommon for immediate family to not realize the severity of certain situations because they see it every day and become immune to it. Or they are so emotionally close they become paralyzed in a sense to step in when necessary. Or they simply don't know how to help so they don't seek outside resources which can help.

    This didn't happen as a spontaneous event in time. They didn't just suddenly up and decide to run. The events which led to their running didn't happen in a bubble. My hope is if we can uncover what caused them to run, perhaps having that out on the table will help provide alternatives that will lead them home.

    Any animosity towards LM is NOT going to help bring any of them home. In fact, it may be exactly what is keeping them on the run. Presuming they are on the run and a terrible accident has not occured where they have yet to be discovered.
    Last edited by Cubby; 03-06-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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  26. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    This didn't happen as a spontaneous event in time. They didn't just suddenly up and decide to run. The events which led to their running didn't happen in a bubble. My hope is if we can uncover what caused them to run, perhaps having that out on the table will help provide alternatives that will lead them home.

    Any animosity towards LM is NOT going to help bring any of them home. In fact, it may be exactly what is keeping them on the run. Presuming they are on the run and a terrible accident has not occured where they have yet to be discovered.
    sbm

    And that up there ^ is why I think the families need to get together.

    Finding out what was going on with Laurie before they left.
    Finding out what was going on with Destiny before they left.
    Putting those two things together to see if they can come up with anything.

    For example, what if we find out later they DID go out to California.
    Then we find out that both had made comments hinting at that location... but nobody knew that because nobody shared information.

    If they took off because they were not allowed to have contact, or because Destiny's parents were not allowing her to be friends with Laurie...

    Then I guarantee, the fact that Destiny's parents cannot even talk to Laurie's family... is NOT going to encourage them to come back.
    If they do a media interview together, show a united front, show they are working together... that would go a long way.


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  28. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    Also, tats are simply not a big deal for some people, and don't carry any negative connotations or raise special concerns. It's just something you do. In my family of origin, the idea of having a baby's ears pierced carried all sorts of negative connotations, but in other families it's done all the time. It looks like this may be just a tattoo-loving family.
    Good point.

    It could well be and it is true that different cultures (or subcultures) regard things differently.


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