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  1. #1
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    BIG DISCOVERY- GB4 WERE NOT placed 500 feet apart!

    Melissa and Amber's remains were found 259 feet away from each other!

    Please see the attached photo.

    I am not sure why not a single reporter or a victim's family member caught on to this.

    Melissa's remains were found at GPS coordinates 40.624423/73.37661.

    Amber Lynn's remains were found at GPS coordinates 40.624138/73.37747.

    These locations are 259 feet away from each other.


    The detectives painted giant orange arrows on the side of the road to indicate where some of the victims (not all of them were found). They did this for Amber and Melissa. This made it easy for me to locate where their remains were found using mapping software with images that were taken in the Spring. The software is accurate to +/-8 inches.

    All anyone in the area had to do was to record the locations of these two orange painted arrows with a GPS and they would have discovered this while on the scene. This discovery completely changes the profile of the SK.

    If Truthspider or another member happen to travel down Ocean Parkway this week, maybe you can stop at the locations where the other two GB4 victims were found (from what we see on the news, there are flowers/memorials marking their locations) and please record the coordinates.

    I am willing to bet that we learn that not one of the victims were placed exactly 500 feet apart as was inaccurately reported to us!

    This is HUGE!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Seaslug44 View Post
    Melissa and Amber's remains were found 259 feet away from each other!

    Please see the attached photo.

    I am not sure why not a single reporter or a victim's family member caught on to this.

    Melissa's remains were found at GPS coordinates 40.624423/73.37661.

    Amber Lynn's remains were found at GPS coordinates 40.624138/73.37747.

    These locations are 259 feet away from each other.


    The detectives painted giant orange arrows on the side of the road to indicate where some of the victims (not all of them were found). They did this for Amber and Melissa. This made it easy for me to locate where their remains were found using mapping software with images that were taken in the Spring. The software is accurate to +/-8 inches.

    All anyone in the area had to do was to record the locations of these two orange painted arrows with a GPS and they would have discovered this while on the scene. This discovery completely changes the profile of the SK.

    If Truthspider or another member happen to travel down Ocean Parkway this week, maybe you can stop at the locations where the other two GB4 victims were found (from what we see on the news, there are flowers/memorials marking their locations) and please record the coordinates.

    I am willing to bet that we learn that not one of the victims were placed exactly 500 feet apart as was inaccurately reported to us!

    This is HUGE!

    Good find. I was always a little suspect about the exact numbers.

    I'm not sure what this new info tells us. How does it change the profile of the LISK?

    We know he got pretty good at identifying the exact location. It's been reasoned that he uses odometer readings, signage, or even counts "bumps" along the parkway. He could easily be using a handheld GPS as well.

    My sense is that his ability to re-find the exact spot got better and better over time. His first dump, JD#6 or Baby Doe, was actually east of Cedar Beach. All the remaining dumps with only 2 exceptions are between Cedar and Gilgo Beaches, the latest demonstrating some form of precision.

    We know he told Melissa's sister he was "going to watch her body rot" so presumably at that point he knew exactly how to ID her location.

    I'd bet before all the publicity, he used to do drive bys or actually pull over, get out of the car and reminisce.

  3. #3
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    I remember when Shannon was first found. In the days after, I was driving past the location and you can see a small trail leading from Ocean Parkway into the location where shannon was found. I am not sure if that trail was there before or after she was found (almost positive it was always there though). A car pulled over in front of me and someone go out of the car and started walking towards the trail, and a NYS trooper pulled out of from the brush somewhere and flashed the guy getting out of his car. I was going 60 MPH so I do not know what was said to the guy nor did I hear anything in the local news so it was probably nothing. BUt that may tell us something: either the police believe the killer does return to the sites, or the police were just guarding a possible crime scene. But all of the police had left the scene by the time I drove past.

  4. #4
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    I'm sorry to go off topic but can someone answer a question for me please or maybe two questions:

    1-Who was the first victim?

    2-How was the first victim killed and was it staged?

  5. #5
    shadowraiths's Avatar
    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
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    Amazing how confirmation bias works, eh? That is, people require patterns to fit their particular theories. In this case, the media created that pattern, with help from LE, no doubt. In any event, I pointed out the 500M myth back in May.
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
    ... notably, the 500 meters apart appears to be a myth.
    Attaching SCDA pic again. Exact distances are across the bottom.

    Eta ~ here are the exact breakouts, in meters

    Distances:

    Costello & Barthelemy: 0.16 mi = 257.495 m
    Barthelemy & Barnes: 0.05 mi = 80.4672 m
    Barnes & Waterman: 0.07 mi = 112.654 m
    Waterman & John Doe: 0.28 mi = 450.616 m
    John Doe & JT: 0.62 mi = 997.793 m
    JT & Jane Doe 6: 1.43 mi = 2301.361 m
    Jane Doe 6 & Baby Doe: 0.04 mi = 64.3737 m

    The above is why I think LE put out the 500m myth.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by shadowraiths; 03-05-2012 at 01:43 PM.



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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lera213 View Post
    I'm sorry to go off topic but can someone answer a question for me please or maybe two questions:

    1-Who was the first victim?

    2-How was the first victim killed and was it staged?
    If I'm not mistaken, the first known is Jane Doe 9098. Her legs washed up on Fire Island in 1996.

    examiner.com
    Victim of Long Island serial killer
    linked to 1996 Fire Island Case
    Cindy Adams
    http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-nat...and-case-video

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaslug44 View Post
    Melissa and Amber's remains were found 259 feet away from each other!

    Please see the attached photo.

    I am not sure why not a single reporter or a victim's family member caught on to this.

    Melissa's remains were found at GPS coordinates 40.624423/73.37661.

    Amber Lynn's remains were found at GPS coordinates 40.624138/73.37747.

    These locations are 259 feet away from each other.


    The detectives painted giant orange arrows on the side of the road to indicate where some of the victims (not all of them were found). They did this for Amber and Melissa. This made it easy for me to locate where their remains were found using mapping software with images that were taken in the Spring. The software is accurate to +/-8 inches.

    All anyone in the area had to do was to record the locations of these two orange painted arrows with a GPS and they would have discovered this while on the scene. This discovery completely changes the profile of the SK.

    If Truthspider or another member happen to travel down Ocean Parkway this week, maybe you can stop at the locations where the other two GB4 victims were found (from what we see on the news, there are flowers/memorials marking their locations) and please record the coordinates.

    I am willing to bet that we learn that not one of the victims were placed exactly 500 feet apart as was inaccurately reported to us!

    This is HUGE!
    Good work Seaslug--interesting info! And Shadowraiths for the initial observation (although I apparently never noticed the post) and confirmation that not ONE of the victims were indeed placed exactly 500 yards apart! It does change the LISK profile somewhat, he isn't precise, exacting killer that we've thought he was. For someone to place victims spaced exactly apart in that manner, he'd have to be a highly organized, attention-to-minute-detail oriented person. And this "order" would be very important to him. This shows that he most likely was using an odometer (not the most precise method) or one of "sight" methods inspectr wrote about. And it's obvious that he wasn't using a GPS. I'm sort of amazed at how different the distances are from Costello through Waterman-not even close! Completely all over the place...

    LINative13--interesting situation that you saw on the Ocean Parkway near the path. Most likely the police were just protecting the crimescene, but maybe they thought they could get lucky and perhaps nab the killer returning to the scene. Highly doubtful, though, this would be a result of him not being aware of her discovery via all of the media.

    Inspectr--I think you're right, he probably visited the Gilgo Beach 4 quite often and relived the murders before they were discovered. He could've possibly driven there during the day as well and gotten quite a thrill as motorists passed him by, completely oblivious to his secret.

  8. #8
    shadowraiths's Avatar
    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
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    Not sure why I had meters stuck in my head, but here's an updated breakout (miles, feet, yards, & meters)

    Original Map:

    Costello & Barthelemy 0.16 mi = 844.8 ft = 281.6 yds = 97.5 m
    Barthelemy & Barnes 0.05 mi = 264.0 ft = 88.0 yds = 30.5 m
    Barnes & Waterman 0.07 mi = 369.6 ft = 123.2 yds = 42.7 m
    Waterman & John Doe 0.28 mi = 1478.4 ft = 492.8 yds 170.6 m
    John Doe & JT 0.62mi = 3273.6 ft = 1091.2 yds = 377.8 m
    JT & Jane Doe 6 1.43 mi = 7550.4 ft = 2516.8 yds = 871.4 m
    Jane Doe 6 & Baby Doe 0.04 mi = 211.2 ft = 70.4 yds = 24.4 m

    Order of death:

    Jane Doe 6 & JT 1.43 mi =7550.4 ft = 2516.8 yds = 871.4 m
    JT & Barnes 0.95 mi = 5016.0 ft =1672.0 yds = 578.9 m
    Barnes & Barthelemy 0.05 mi = 264.0 ft = 88.0 yds = 30.5 m
    Barthelemy & Waterman 0.12 mi = 633.6 ft = 211.2 yds = 73.1 m
    Waterman & Costello 0.38 mi = 2006.4 ft = 668.8 yds = 231.55072 m

    NB: I left out baby doe & john doe in the latter as there is no clear indication regarding their date of death.



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  9. #9
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    What if all four GB4 were not wrapped in Burlap?

    Now the question remains whether or not the police reports are accurate regarding the burlap.

    What if only one or two of the GB4 were wrapped in burlap?

    What if none of them were?

    It has always bothered me that only one victim's family member received tormenting phone calls from the victim's cell phone. It has always made me think that maybe the GB4 are not all perfectly (and conveniently) packaged as being all the victims of the same killer. the false report about the precise 500 feet spacing along with the report that each of them were wrapped in burlap made it most likely that each of them were placed there by the same person/people.

    If we take both the burlap and the equal spacing out of the equation then we are left with four prostitutes who were dumped in the same known dumping grounds. It opens the door to the possibility of an organized crime involvement too.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaslug44 View Post
    Now the question remains whether or not the police reports are accurate regarding the burlap.

    What if only one or two of the GB4 were wrapped in burlap?

    What if none of them were?

    It has always bothered me that only one victim's family member received tormenting phone calls from the victim's cell phone. It has always made me think that maybe the GB4 are not all perfectly (and conveniently) packaged as being all the victims of the same killer. the false report about the precise 500 feet spacing along with the report that each of them were wrapped in burlap made it most likely that each of them were placed there by the same person/people.

    If we take both the burlap and the equal spacing out of the equation then we are left with four prostitutes who were dumped in the same known dumping grounds. It opens the door to the possibility of an organized crime involvement too.
    I just read this 5 mins ago.

    http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/suff...e-ncx-20110427

    "Levy's upset -- [Dormer] gave out too much information about the burlap bags, that the victims were all on Craigslist, that they were prostitutes," the source said. "[Dormer] embarrassed the department."

    I don't know what to make of it answering your question, but it would not surprise me if there are more incorrect statements from the reporters on this case than factual.
    But if that was the case (as you asked), I'm sure the families would know, and would have said something by now....


  11. #11
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    I took a drive down Ocean Parkway last night.

    I got out of work last night and it was still light out for a change. Terrible day at work so I decided to take a drive down Ocean Parkway to look at burial ground again. The GB4 were all placed on a very unique part of the highway. It is in between hemlock cove and the old coast guard station harbor. People use these coves to park their boats, and have the option to run across the highway to get to the ocean side. Where he put these bodies; there would be significantly lower foot traffic. Also in this area there are numerous oppurtunities to make a uturn and switch directions on the highway (or to circle and wait for a lull in the traffic). I pictured him in my brain last night driving around till the coast was clear.....must be quite the sick game for him. He definitely is very familiar with this area. You can see the houses at gilgo from this spot. Also this spot is really thick and there are probably all kinds of critters in there that help the decompistion process.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LINative13 View Post
    I got out of work last night and it was still light out for a change. Terrible day at work so I decided to take a drive down Ocean Parkway to look at burial ground again. The GB4 were all placed on a very unique part of the highway. It is in between hemlock cove and the old coast guard station harbor. People use these coves to park their boats, and have the option to run across the highway to get to the ocean side. Where he put these bodies; there would be significantly lower foot traffic. Also in this area there are numerous oppurtunities to make a uturn and switch directions on the highway (or to circle and wait for a lull in the traffic). I pictured him in my brain last night driving around till the coast was clear.....must be quite the sick game for him. He definitely is very familiar with this area. You can see the houses at gilgo from this spot. Also this spot is really thick and there are probably all kinds of critters in there that help the decompistion process.

    Hi LINative, Can you please tell me (may be on a google map aerial photo) - which houses at Gilgo can be seen from that location. It would really be interesting. Thanks.

  13. #13
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    This place is real slow lately. Can anyone find the aerial photos that seaslug posted from the seaplane?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindsayLohan6 View Post
    This place is real slow lately. Can anyone find the aerial photos that seaslug posted from the seaplane?
    I think there's some in the Maps & Aerial Photos sticky

    there's also a couple albums here
    http://s641.photobucket.com/user/Sea...?sort=3&page=1

  15. #15
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    Could this thread also include general geographic information?

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