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Thread: Guilty of first degree murder/verdict watch #2

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The door was moved, but there's no evidence that it was closed. There are blood smudges on the wall near the floor in the area behind the door if the door were open. Those may have been made by a 2 year old twisting her feet behind the door, or by a 2 year old that half closed the door when she was trying to clean her feet - but leaving blood on the toes ... certainly not something Jason would do if he wanted to hide the fact that the child was awake at the time of the murder.

    How did the child's feet get clean, but not clean enough to eliminate the possibility that she stepped in the blood? What's the point in half cleaning the feet ... unless a child is cleaning her own feet and doesn't quite finish the job.
    I disagree.

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  3. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellbell View Post
    This entire case is mind boggling!
    No doubt about that!! But I firmly believe he is guilty.

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  5. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The door was moved, but there's no evidence that it was closed. There are blood smudges on the wall near the floor in the area behind the door if the door were open. Those may have been made by a 2 year old twisting her feet behind the door, or by a 2 year old that half closed the door when she was trying to clean her feet - but leaving blood on the toes ... certainly not something Jason would do if he wanted to hide the fact that the child was awake at the time of the murder.

    How did the child's feet get clean, but not clean enough to eliminate the possibility that she stepped in the blood? What's the point in half cleaning the feet ... unless a child is cleaning her own feet and doesn't quite finish the job.
    I would like to know why no diaper or underpants were not put back on her. There is no way I believe she went that long without needing to potty and if she was knocked out by meds, she would have had no control in her sleep.

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  7. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellbell View Post
    I agree! He sure seemed to do a lot in a short amount of time. Thankfully, she was only 2.5 when this happened to her mom, she will never remember what she witnessed.
    He had an hour and 5 minutes by my calculations ... and we need to include the stop at the gas station if we're going by the prosecution's theory. In one hour and 5 minutes, he had to change into different shoes for the murder, but he didn't need to change shirt and pants (he wasn't anticipating a messy murder but he changed shoes because he was anticipating a messy murder), got a weapon but attempted strangulation, strangulation failed so he used his weapon but the medical examiner said that it couldn't have been a flash light because it's too light (never mind the speed and force with which is is used). Then, he sees his daughter, he has to settle his daughter down, so he locks his daughter in the bathroom. Then, he washes his daughter's feet with the back yard hose, takes her to her room - all the while she is not outwardly upset - he drugs her, rocks her to sleep in the baby rocker that is adjusted, turns on the music, takes her to his side of the bed and leaves her there out cold. Then, he changes his shoes ... that he has to get out of the closet - apparently because the size 12 hush puppies that he was wearing in the cracker barrel are now in the closet, or he's getting another pair of shoes because the size 10s hurt his feet and the hush puppies he wasn't wearing are also covered in blood ... and he deliberately does not give the shoes he got from the closet to the police - which means he's guilty for not proving that he's innocent ... and then he has to get gas, get into the hotel unseen, get his bill, grab breakfast and head to a meeting ... getting lost on the way.

    I don't know ...
    Last edited by otto; 03-07-2012 at 03:31 AM.

  8. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky89 View Post
    I disagree.
    You referenced a picture that clearly shows the door was closed. Would you happen to have a link?

  9. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellbell View Post
    I would like to know why no diaper or underpants were not put back on her. There is no way I believe she went that long without needing to potty and if she was knocked out by meds, she would have had no control in her sleep.
    She only wore diapers during the night and was toilet trained during the day. She could have taken off her own diaper and known to put it where it belonged ... isn't that something parents teach their 2.5 year old mostly toild trained children ... putting the overnight diaper in the right place? Were there no used diapers in the entire house, or did the prosecution expect to find it in the middle of the floor?

    Quite right ... if she was knocked out by drugs from 4 am - 1 pm, she would have had an accident .. so she probably wasn't out cold from being drugged during that time.

  10. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky89 View Post
    No doubt about that!! But I firmly believe he is guilty.
    I go back and fourth with it. I think he is too because there is no other obvious person, but there are still so many questions, that I know will never be answered. But at the same time you have to wonder how he did all he did in the amount of time he had. He left hotel, drove home, brutally killed his wife, cleaned daughter, washed her clothes,cleaned himself up, made sure not to leave any evidence, ransacked closets, changed clothes, packed all bloody evidence in trash bag, stopped for gas, cursed Gracie, drove back to the hotel, entered hotel got his bags, changed for meeting, grabbed receipt and newspaper, left again unnoticed all before his cell phone pinged off that tower at 7:40 am. I guess I have always had a hard time understanding how someone could kill his wife, much less a baby, even knowing how often this happens.

  11. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    He had an hour and 5 minutes by my calculations ... and we need to include the stop at the gas station if we're going by the prosecution's theory. In one hour and 5 minutes, he had to change into different shoes for the murder, but he didn't need to change shirt and pants (he wasn't anticipating a messy murder but he changed shoes because he was anticipating a messy murder), got a weapon but attempted strangulation, strangulation failed so he used his weapon but the medical examiner said that it couldn't have been a flash light because it's too light (never mind the speed and force with which is is used). Then, he sees his daughter, he has to settle his daughter down, so he locks his daughter in the bathroom. Then, he washes his daughter's feet with the back yard hose, takes her to her room - all the while she is not outwardly upset - he drugs her, rocks her to sleep in the baby rocker that is adjusted, turns on the music, takes her to his side of the bed and leaves her there out cold. Then, he changes his shoes ... that he has to get out of the closet - apparently because the size 12 hush puppies that he was wearing in the cracker barrel are now in the closet, or he's getting another pair of shoes because the size 10s hurt his feet and the hush puppies he wasn't wearing are also covered in blood ... and he deliberately does not give the shoes he got from the closet to the police - which means he's guilty for not proving that he's innocent ... and then he has to get gas, get into the hotel unseen, get his bill, grab breakfast and head to a meeting ... getting lost on the way.

    I don't know ...
    I just posted almost the exact same thing... I have no clue how all this played out. I sure wish if he is guilty he would have an epiphany and tell everyone what happened.

  12. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    He had an hour and 5 minutes by my calculations ... and we need to include the stop at the gas station if we're going by the prosecution's theory. In one hour and 5 minutes, he had to change into different shoes for the murder, but he didn't need to change shirt and pants (he wasn't anticipating a messy murder but he changed shoes because he was anticipating a messy murder), got a weapon but attempted strangulation, strangulation failed so he used his weapon but the medical examiner said that it couldn't have been a flash light because it's too light (never mind the speed and force with which is is used). Then, he sees his daughter, he has to settle his daughter down, so he locks his daughter in the bathroom. Then, he washes his daughter's feet with the back yard hose, takes her to her room - all the while she is not outwardly upset - he drugs her, rocks her to sleep in the baby rocker that is adjusted, turns on the music, takes her to his side of the bed and leaves her there out cold. Then, he changes his shoes ... that he has to get out of the closet - apparently because the size 12 hush puppies that he was wearing in the cracker barrel are now in the closet, or he's getting another pair of shoes because the size 10s hurt his feet and the hush puppies he wasn't wearing are also covered in blood ... and he deliberately does not give the shoes he got from the closet to the police - which means he's guilty for not proving that he's innocent ... and then he has to get gas, get into the hotel unseen, get his bill, grab breakfast and head to a meeting ... getting lost on the way.

    I don't know ...
    If this whole situation wouldn't be so serious and sad, it would almost be comical trying to figure this out.

  13. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellbell View Post
    I just posted almost the exact same thing... I have no clue how all this played out. I sure wish if he is guilty he would have an epiphany and tell everyone what happened.
    Thanks ... I just saw that ... the prosecution's theory has him doing a bit too much for him to be able to do it all in the space of time that he had. I'd like to see the timeline that the jury used ... drive home, murder, change shoes or settle child, wash child in back yard or drug her, wash her feet or leave them half bloody, lock her in the bathroom but she has two shoes in bed, weaing size 10 for murder, get the size 12s messed up, barge into the closet to switch shoes and ...these are supposedly now the size 12 (which he also was wearing when he arrived in Raleigh and then refused to turn over to police) ... drive back, skip the gas attendant and both timelines and mileage work?

    If he was wearing the size 12 hush puppies at the cracker barrel and in the bedroom, and he had to get another pair of shoes from the closet, then the shoes he was wearing when he arrived in Raleigh would not have had blood on them. Did he go into the closet to get the size 10 shoes and where did they come from? If he was planning murder with a five hour drive, surely he would have had the size 10 in his back pocket or on his feet. Still, police did not request Jason's shoes when he arrived in Raleigh and he didn't think to offer them. Police had a warrant for the shoes 2 years later when they wanted to search a storage locker belonging to Jason.

  14. #336
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    I'd like to thank Cammy for her knowledgable contribution to this case ... Cammy, you had all sorts of links and information at your fingertips. Thank you!

    I'd like to hear your thoughts on the big picture. What do you think of the timeline according to everything the prosecution alleged in their storytelling theory?

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  16. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellbell View Post
    I would like to know why no diaper or underpants were not put back on her. There is no way I believe she went that long without needing to potty and if she was knocked out by meds, she would have had no control in her sleep.
    I think he wouldn't want to take the chance of fingerprints on a diaper. From my memory (my youngest is 7) pampers and most store brands have an adhesive tape to adhere the diaper. Huggies has a velcro type material. The sticky tape is the most likely the best way to get a fingerprint. Don't think you could put a diaper on easily with gloves either. Remember he was in a hurry.
    Don't know why he didn't do panties though.

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  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I think she walked to the bathroom herself (from the master bedroom to the bathroom with clean feet), got a wash cloth, tried to get bandaids, went back to her mom, got blood on her feet, went back to the bathroom, tried to wash the blood off her feet, got most off the bottoms but not around the toes (surely a father would want to get all the blood off the childr's feet, not just some of it!), while getting her feet wet with the washcloth she sat on the floor and put her feet on the wall (no other footprints in the bathroom but definite water on bloody feet on the wall). I suppose she then went into her bedroom, got two shoes that didn't match, went back to her parent's bedroom, dropped a doll over the edge of the bed onto her mom, hid under the covers and was found by Meredith several hours later.

    He didn't have time to wash her clothes ... that's a fact.

    As for the jeans and shoes, the video shots were too grainy for anyone to be sure of anything.

    No washcloth was found. She did not clean herself.



    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    She only wore diapers during the night and was toilet trained during the day. She could have taken off her own diaper and known to put it where it belonged ... isn't that something parents teach their 2.5 year old mostly toild trained children ... putting the overnight diaper in the right place? Were there no used diapers in the entire house, or did the prosecution expect to find it in the middle of the floor?

    Quite right ... if she was knocked out by drugs from 4 am - 1 pm, she would have had an accident .. so she probably wasn't out cold from being drugged during that time.

    No dirty diapers were found. She did not clean herself.

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  20. #339
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    I need a new trial to follow. Any suggestions?

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  22. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamityjane831 View Post
    I need a new trial to follow. Any suggestions?
    Here in NC, we're going to have the Jason Williford case up soon (April) out of Wake County. Judge Gessner is his trial judge. In Durham, Raven Abaroa is coming up soon as well. We may have a trial date for Grant Haze and his wife Amanda Haze this year as well. I believe Boz is on that case. At one point Klink was Grant Haze's attorney, but I know he's been through so many now, I am not sure who his current attorney is.

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  24. #341
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    Young Juror says they figured Jason must have had accomplice and the State may reopen to investigate that theory.
    http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...cal&id=8571108

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  26. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancy View Post
    Young Juror says they figured Jason must have had accomplice and the State may reopen to investigate that theory.
    http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...cal&id=8571108
    Jason had a grudge and a head of steam. No Accomplice necessary.

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  28. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamityjane831 View Post
    I need a new trial to follow. Any suggestions?
    I will probably be following the Raven trial, and the Taft one. And then there are those retrials in Knoxville. Can't recall the names right now, that young couple that was car-jacked, tortured, raped and murdered. All four defendants need to be retried because the judge at the first trials turned out to be a drug addict. Pity is, none of the defendants can be found guilty or punished any worse then what they got during the first trials. Bummer, IIRC only one of the four defendants got the DP first time around.

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  30. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracielee View Post
    I will probably be following the Raven trial, and the Taft one. And then there are those retrials in Knoxville. Can't recall the names right now, that young couple that was car-jacked, tortured, raped and murdered. All four defendants need to be retried because the judge at the first trials turned out to be a drug addict. Pity is, none of the defendants can be found guilty or punished any worse then what they got during the first trials. Bummer, IIRC only one of the four defendants got the DP first time around.
    Messed up isn't it? They get new trials because of an idiot judge and get a better chance at a lesser sentence. Why not start ALL OVER? Two different playing fields.

    The legal system in the US needs to take a new look at victims and their families, instead of breaking its back to make sure MURDERERS get their "Twinkies" every morning. I'm sick of it!

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  32. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamityjane831 View Post
    I need a new trial to follow. Any suggestions?
    I will be following the Drew Peterson trial and hoping for an arrest in the murder of Lisa Stebic and it makes me sad that there hasn't been an arrest yet.

    I will be following the trial of Raven Samuel Peters Abaroa for the murder of Janet Christiansen Abaroa, but no trial date has been set.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." ~ Edmund Burke

    "Safety never takes a holiday" ~Britney Romito

    "It's easier to KEEP Raven happy, than it is to MAKE Raven happy." ~Janet Christiansen (Abaroa)

    "Right now you have the capabilities of being a God" ~Karen Abaroa Bolton

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  34. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracielee View Post
    I will probably be following the Raven trial, and the Taft one. And then there are those retrials in Knoxville. Can't recall the names right now, that young couple that was car-jacked, tortured, raped and murdered. All four defendants need to be retried because the judge at the first trials turned out to be a drug addict. Pity is, none of the defendants can be found guilty or punished any worse then what they got during the first trials. Bummer, IIRC only one of the four defendants got the DP first time around.

    Thanks I just read last night that Raven plead to manslaughter. Awful. That was the one I was hoping the victim was finally going to get justice.

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  36. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamityjane831 View Post
    Thanks I just read last night that Raven plead to manslaughter. Awful. That was the one I was hoping the victim was finally going to get justice.
    Where did you read that about Raven pleading out?

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  38. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamityjane831 View Post
    Thanks I just read last night that Raven plead to manslaughter. Awful. That was the one I was hoping the victim was finally going to get justice.
    You're kidding! I didn't see that. Manslaughter! What a rip-off. What is he getting? Do you know?

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  40. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamityjane831 View Post
    Thanks I just read last night that Raven plead to manslaughter. Awful. That was the one I was hoping the victim was finally going to get justice.
    Can't be Raven Abaroa.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." ~ Edmund Burke

    "Safety never takes a holiday" ~Britney Romito

    "It's easier to KEEP Raven happy, than it is to MAKE Raven happy." ~Janet Christiansen (Abaroa)

    "Right now you have the capabilities of being a God" ~Karen Abaroa Bolton

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  42. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by terminatrixator View Post
    Can't be Raven Abaroa.
    I've looked everywhere, can't find anything about Raven. Although I did see Barbara Stager is coming up for parole in a couple weeks. I doubt she will get it, hopefully not.

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