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The Killing Season - Websleuths

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This page is dedicated to A&E's The Killing Season - an immersive true crime series following filmmakers, Joshua Zeman and Rachel Mills, as they uncover a real-life American nightmare while investigating the Long Island Serial Killer and other unsolved cases across the country.

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Post your PROFILE

    Everyone has a theory or is developing theories. Let's see what people are coming to believe. Over time and through tons of research and data posted here and in the MSM, a tremendous amount of information has surfaced. So here we go. IMO

    Manorville and GB4 are Two Separate and Distinct Killers.

    Manorville is violent, chaotic, although not necessarily disorganized and may even exhibit qualities of a rage killer. The women are beheaded and mutilated, naked and dumped like trash. In one case, one the males is said to have been brutally attacked.

    Having said this, the killer seems to have designated drop sites. He chose Manorville (Wildlife Sancuary) for the bodies and torsos and for the body parts he puts them in plastic bags and scatters them along the OP. It is uncertain how long he holds on to the body parts. The bodies and torsos are dumped below the LIE and between exits 68 & 70 of the LIE. Interestingly enough, one report suggests that at least one of these exit ramps was a notorious "hookup" location for gay men. That is also true of the Parking Lot 6 at Jones Beach. Fire Island has long been known as a "gay friendly" destination.

    But the Manorville killer may have simply lived somewhere right in between the two locations (Manorville and the shore.)

    He may also already be confined and/or convicted of another crime.
    (Example: Evan Marshall, 31 in 2006, from Glen Cove, NY.)

    The baby, the mother and the male, dressed as a female and possibly beaten, may or may not be his victims but in the cases where body parts were found in plastic bags the Manorville Killer may be responsible.

    If the first JD case (1996 Fire Island/legs & Head at JFK Wildlife Sanctuary) is related and it may be because her toenails were painted on only one foot and JT had a unique decal on only one of her toes, then he was likely in his early 20s when he committed this crime. If this JD 1996 is related then it would be a good idea to look at the case of "Cherries," "Peaches" and/or any of the cases between 1996 and 2006 where victims were dismembered and parts put into containers and dumped in parks and sanctuaries.

    December is a time when college students come home for winter break. JD 1996, Fire Island, could have been killed by EM, if he came home for the holidays. By the time she was found, he could have been back in Arizona.

    GB4 & AC4
    GB4 (2007-2010 Memorial day through Labor Day) is most likely related to AC4 (Late October through November 2006) The victims are all Caucasian prostitutes, natural brunettes but some have dyed or bleached hair, small in stature, and most have been said to have some substance abuse issues.

    In both cases, there is the generally even spacing of the bodies in a row and along or near an expressway but in between two highly trafficked lanes or highways.

    In AC, they are dressed.
    In GB4, they naked but are wrapped in burlap.

    In both cases the victims were strangled. (From all MSM reports, none were dismembered.)

    In both cases there may be religious overtones. (IN AC, bare feet and face down with heads turned to the East. In GB4, burlap may be seen as a religious form of atonement as in a hair shirt.)

    Because of the phone calls to the GB4 family and friends, his use of social networking and accessing the voicemail of some of the victim's phones, it appears that he is a stalker and possibly a cyber stalker. He may get to know these women over several dates and once he has their trust he kills them. He is highly structured and organized.

    The killer drives a vehicle that would not draw attention if it is seen by the side of the road.

    IMO, there are at least Two Killers and maybe more.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    907
    Good Job Just K!

    Please post in the IT thread more often. We could use insight from all of the tech people we can. Even if you disagree with the angle!

    Thanks for starting this thread!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Long Island
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    Construction worker who has been working on the Robert Moses Bridge project since its inception since the early 1990s. Construciton often follows warm weather.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Long Island
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    The previous post is for the LISK. I believe CPH killed Ms Gilbert.

    Sorry.
    Last edited by LINative13; 03-05-2012 at 08:43 PM. Reason: initials only please for non-victims, i.e. CPH, etc

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Denmark
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    Great thread

    Im not capable to post my theorie fully due to WS's ruels, I'm not allowed to name my POI beacuse he has not been mentioned as a suspect or POI by LE or media.

    But Ill try to share a little bit of info connected to my theorie, hope this is allowed admin?

    I can say that I belive that the Atlantic City serial killer case and the LISK is related, and that I belive that somone who knew of one of the AC4 victims make a possible POI.

    This person is a construction worker who travel the east coast up and down and also somtimes work on and have close ties to Long island, also Atlantic City, Brooklyn/NY and south Florida.
    This person is also VERY active on the internet, lots of dating profiles, and seem to be interested in and skilled with phones and computers.
    This person also have many contacts with young woman on the internet, several of them woman connected and convicted of prostitution, dugs and other cirmes.
    The person is himself convicted for agraveted assult and also have case of domestic violence + some minor cases for drugs (marihuana) but also use stronger drugs himself.
    He also seems to have been in the right areas, when at least 3 of the 4 Gilgo Beach murder victims disappeared, MBB, MB, and MW.
    He also frequent concerts at Jones Beach.
    He is a womanizer, who easley can act as a charming and great guy.
    He has befriened many of the very close relatives of the LISK murdervictims, as well as the AC case relatives, also been very active in the media concerning the AC case.
    He has a FB female friend who is listed 0.6 miles from Melissa Barthelemys address in the Bronx.
    I have SO VERY much more, but it is hard to share without violating the WS ruels so this has to be it for now.

    Hope I didnt violate ant WB ruels by posting this?, if I did Im sorry and expect this to be deleeted.
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear over with me

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Denmark
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    Here is additional info on my theories:

    I would like to add my thoughts on what I belive might connect the AC and the 4GB victims.


    AC4, Nov 2006: 4 prositutes killed and dumped 4 in a row

    GB4 2007/2010: 4 prositutes killed and dumped 4 in a row





    IMO the AC4 and GB4 are significat lookalikes:




    IMHO the killer possibly choose the GB4 victims through Craigs List, by LOOKS, because he wanted them to be look-alikes of the AC4 victims.

    Kim Raffo- Amber Costello

    Barbara Breidor- Maureen Brainer-Barnes

    Molly Jean Dilts Megan Waterman

    Tracy Ann Roberts- Melissa Barthelemy



    IMO the SK copied:

    numbers of victims, 4 victims

    sex of victims, all woman

    type of victims, all prostitutes

    looks of the victims

    the way he killed the victims
    the way he dumped the victims





    I belive the AC4 SK was on "a mission"
    I belive the GB4 SK is on "a mission"

    IMO His "mission" is motivated by his hatered towards prostituetes.
    He IMO possibly hates prostitutes because he feels that they ruin the lives of their loved once, husbands/boyfriends and children.
    He IMO possibly saw himself as a victim of a woman who let him, and their children, down by choosing to become a prostituet
    He IMO want to punish/eliminate prostituets and scare other girls/woman/mothers from become prostitutes.
    I belive this is possibly what got him started, in Atlantic City
    He IMO then became obsessed by the actual killing and the power it made him feel.
    After the AC4 "mission" he possibly developed into a combined mission SK and a lust SK.

    Both the AC4 and the GB4 murders seems, to some degree, to be ritualistic oriented, in the sence of:

    AC4 murders:
    motive- "a mission"
    killed by: asphyxiation or strangulation or suffocation
    remove shoes and socks on all 4 victims-leave them barefoot (possible religious meaning: "mourning")
    remove all jewlery/cell phones/purses etc
    place all 4 bodies- face down-heads to the east
    place all 4 bodieis in a row
    dump the bodies in a way so that they would be found pretty quickly
    all 4 victims were mothers
    all 4 victims were partly placed IN water (drainage ditch )

    GB4 murders:
    killed by: asphyxiation or strangulation or suffocation
    motive- "a mission" + lust/power murder
    Remove all clothes/jewlery/cell phones/purses etc.
    I don't know if the bodies were face down or not, neither which way their heads were facing?
    wraped all 4 naked bodies in burlap (possible religious meaning: penitent and atonement)
    dumped Miss Barthelemy body in a way so that it would be found pretty quickly, knowing that the other bodies would be found as well.
    "She (Miss Barthelemy ) was found a FEW FEET into the brush off the parkway, police said. )
    2 victims were mothers 2 was not mothers.
    all 4 victims were placed BY water
    Thise 4 victims were SIGNIFICANT lookalikes of the 4 AC victims.

    Personaly I doubt that the rest of the "Long island serial killer" victims/and Manorville victims, and Shannan Gilbert, are victims of the killer of the GB4 and/or the AC4 victims.

    All, just my opinion of course.
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear over with me

  7. #7
    My theory is this guy is loving all the confusion and multiple theories.
    meaning he was successful at ditching the law

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    87
    Thankyou Theforeigner for posting your theory!
    You present a compelling case here for the link between LISK and AC murders - I have long thought that there is a connection.
    I have also thought that there is a significant facial likeness between the women.
    Interesting that in the AC case all four women were mothers - I wasn't aware of this!!
    Thankyou for posting your theory!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Texas
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    I think I now tend to agree with Peter that the Manorville killer is not the same as the SK of the Gilgo 4.

    On the Gilgo 4, I firmly believe Gilbert's death is by the same killer. I keep going back to the fact that after Gilbert's disappearance, Waterman & Costello were instructed (or convinced) not to bring their phones along. IMO that strongly suggests that the killer is/was acutely aware of Gilbert's 911 call.

    And in that vein, we know for a fact that Brewer & Pak were both aware of her call...but we don't really know if Coletti or anyone else knew that Gilbert had called 911 herself. Of course, Gilbert could have run into another person after she ran from Barbara Brennan's home...and simply told that person that she had already called 911.

    CPH's calls, statements & letters are certainly perplexing...but I can't help but wonder about a few other surrounding residents there too.

    The Oak Beach police officer Brunkard owns the home next door to CPH. I'm curious if he was privy to any radio calls that morning.

    Still too many unanswered questions.....especially Gilbert's cause of death.

  10. #10
    MrsPC, I tend to agree with you here.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,187
    I think they're all done by one serial killer. AC weren't near his home so they weren't undressed and maybe killed in a vehicle. The beach victims may have been near his home and why they were undressed and maybe expecting overnight work. Manorville was probably pretty far from his home and used as a dump site to get rid of the bigger body parts first. Maybe he had more fear of being connected to those victims if they were found quickly. All victims and body parts were inside something and under brush, poison ivy, or water. Some were near water or the beach. I think it's an older man who has become even more unstable and is an alcoholic. A child and mother being found could show that he does gain their trust through several dates or offers of help. There ought to be an aunt, uncle or grandparents out there somewhere looking for the deceased child.

  12. #12
    One killer who changes his MO
    Killing since the late 70s
    Older than average serial killer age 50-60s
    Wealthy with unlimited resources
    Second homeowner on Long Island
    International ties
    Lives in a penthouse where evidence can be found to tie him to the killings.
    Brilliant
    Successful
    Not someone the police would ever suspect
    Bi-sexual
    Split and fragmented personality

  13. #13
    -One Killer but not the killer of SG. She was killed by MP and\or CPH
    -White Male aged early 30s to mid 50s. He is killing white victims and if seen with victims is easily blended in with them and thus forgotten when trying to jog witness memory
    -Heterosexual who had possibly had either a mid-life or an identity crisis and was bi-curious during this time(when he suddenly realized who he was and killed the cross-dressing asian)
    -Is attracted to younger natural brunette white girls with shoulder length or longer brunette hair or brunettes with blond streaks or bleach blonds
    -Is married or divorced as he is comfortable talking to women and persuading them to do various things that are out of their normal behavioral habits as in leaving behind phones
    -Owns his own home and has an isolated area to act as storage or as a trophy room. This could be within his own home or garage or a public storage area no one else knows about
    -Is a well built 180-210lbs
    -Either works in a physical job or works out regularly
    -Not necessarily a techie but browses the internet a lot(enough to read his own press clippings and likely reading this site but not involving himself in discussion)
    -Is a frequent "John." Hires a lot of prostitutes off the street and on-line escorts but doesn't kill them all. He has either met in person or engaged in lengthy telephone conversations many times before meeting each of these girls to kill them
    -Owns an SUV or minivan with tinted back windows. Most likely a minivan to give himself a harmless appearance
    -Lives closer to Manorville than Gilgo Beach. Serial killers operate closer to home when they are inexperienced

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    83
    Michael Pak did say something interesting in the A&E documentary that caught my attention. He said once he entered Brewer's home to retrieve Gilbert, whom was hiding behind a couch shouting "You're trying to kill me", that he thought she was trying to "set him up". After she took off and ended up at Colletti's house, and then fled from there, Pak pursued her in his SUV. That implicates him in my opinion. Plus, the GB4 girls were naked because that would be when they were at their most vulnerable, and that's when the killer slaughtered them. That's what a serial killer does. They derive enjoyment out of a victims vulnerability. As for Manorville? Who knows if it's the same person committing the crimes. It doesn't shock me that a dump site would be located in such a place as a Wildlife Sanctuary. That aspect of the story actually reminds me a lot of the Backpacker Murders that took place in the early 90's in Australia in Belanglo State Forest, which were committed by Ivan Milat. If you have time, look into Milat. Some of his crimes were used as an inspiration for the film "Wolf Creek". You can't really sit here, as a sane person, and rationalize what these guys do and/or think. You'll drive yourself crazy, because that's what they are, crazy.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMan0928 View Post
    Michael Pak did say something interesting in the A&E documentary that caught my attention. He said once he entered Brewer's home to retrieve Gilbert, whom was hiding behind a couch shouting "You're trying to kill me", that he thought she was trying to "set him up". After she took off and ended up at Colletti's house, and then fled from there, Pak pursued her in his SUV. That implicates him in my opinion. Plus, the GB4 girls were naked because that would be when they were at their most vulnerable, and that's when the killer slaughtered them. That's what a serial killer does. They derive enjoyment out of a victims vulnerability. As for Manorville? Who knows if it's the same person committing the crimes. It doesn't shock me that a dump site would be located in such a place as a Wildlife Sanctuary. That aspect of the story actually reminds me a lot of the Backpacker Murders that took place in the early 90's in Australia in Belanglo State Forest, which were committed by Ivan Milat. If you have time, look into Milat. Some of his crimes were used as an inspiration for the film "Wolf Creek". You can't really sit here, as a sane person, and rationalize what these guys do and/or think. You'll drive yourself crazy, because that's what they are, crazy.
    I don't post much, but I read and watch all I can. That caught my ears too concerning the fact that Pak stated that he thought initially that Shannan might have been trying to set him up. I also recall that he seemed to try to stop what he was saying in mid-sentence. I remember thinking that he may or may not look good for being the LISK, but what if Shannan's behaviour made him so angry that he threatened her or actually hurt her? After all, a moral compass is not at the top of the list of traits required.

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