Orthodox Circumcision Ritual Leads to Baby's Death

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This particular practice is not universal. Using a different method does not invalidate the bris. I have been blessed with several sons who had Orthodox brises, but none involved this procedure. Some groups hold tight to their specific traditions, however.

Honestly, it only very rarely results in a health problem or death--but why take that chance when it is so very preventable? (Like wearing a bike helmet--it is rarely necessary, but when it is, it can save a life.)
 
Etilema said:
This particular practice is not universal. Using a different method does not invalidate the bris. I have been blessed with several sons who had Orthodox brises, but none involved this procedure. Some groups hold tight to their specific traditions, however.

Honestly, it only very rarely results in a health problem or death--but why take that chance when it is so very preventable? (Like wearing a bike helmet--it is rarely necessary, but when it is, it can save a life.)
Click to expand...

I happen to agree with you- but it's not the first time a mohel has spread herpes to a baby! It's either in North Jersey or in Brooklyn where 3 babies died for the same reason. I'm waiting to hear if it's the same guy who has been banned from performing them...

I know it's not necessary to do it this way but try telling that to the ultra-orthodox! They're afraid banning the practice will bring it underground.
 
My grandmother's first son died from a circumcision as well. FROM GANGRENE! He was 6 months old... :( When she had my dad she did it again! (we are not Jewish so it's really a cosmetic choice) No way I would have! *not after losing a baby that way, but she felt like my father would NOT get the same infection.She was right. He was fine.
I used to work for a Dr. that worked with babies on medicaid. He did them in his office for $80.00 cash. With a plasti-bell, not one of my favorite jobs! I was out of there in less than a year.

NEVER ONCE thought about transmitting herpes~ geez!
 
Wow. Wish I had not read about this.

Unless I am misunderstanding, an adult male of purported "orthodox religion" uses his mouth to suck the blood from a baby boy's penis, after circumcision.

No words.

I'll try: sounds vampiric, blood fantasy, child molestation, child abuse, pedophilic, severe privacy invasion on a vulnerable innocent, I am out of words.

I honor most religions that I've studied or read about...moreso, everyone's spirituality (or not) and their right to express it, but GEESH. Really?

Someone please tell me the "right and OK" with this. Much appreciated.
 
Cazzie said:
Wow. Wish I had not read about this.

Unless I am misunderstanding, an adult male of purported "orthodox religion" uses his mouth to suck the blood from a baby boy's penis, after circumcision.

No words.

I'll try: sounds vampiric, blood fantasy, child molestation, child abuse, pedophilic, severe privacy invasion on a vulnerable innocent, I am out of words.

I honor most religions that I've studied or read about...moreso, everyone's spirituality (or not) and their right to express it, but GEESH. Really?

Someone please tell me the "right and OK" with this. Much appreciated.
Click to expand...

I agree with you this seem's so wrong, I respect peoples religions but this seems wrong.
 
Yes, you understood correctly. He uses his mouth.
I don't care how religious or what religion it is, it's disgusting.
 
Cazzie said:
Wow. Wish I had not read about this.

Unless I am misunderstanding, an adult male of purported "orthodox religion" uses his mouth to suck the blood from a baby boy's penis, after circumcision.

No words.

I'll try: sounds vampiric, blood fantasy, child molestation, child abuse, pedophilic, severe privacy invasion on a vulnerable innocent, I am out of words.

I honor most religions that I've studied or read about...moreso, everyone's spirituality (or not) and their right to express it, but GEESH. Really?

Someone please tell me the "right and OK" with this. Much appreciated.
Click to expand...

I am an observant Jew, but I agree that it would be an unpleasant practice, even if it didn't cause disease and death, which makes it an unacceptable practice, in my opinion. I think in previous times it might have been a good choice, because of the lack of better hygiene methods. Even now, one of the first things most people do if they cut their finger is to suck on it!

So I'm saying that it wouldn't have seemed nearly so creepy in former times, when it may have imparted a benefit over alternatives. The problem in an orthodox religion is that practices appropriate to certain milieux get ossified and brought along through changes in time and become a hill to die on, which they never, ever should have been.

In the Jewish religion, LIFE holds the highest value in almost every case, and there is no way this practice should be taking precedence over the risk to newborns. Just my passionately-felt opinion.
 
I also would like to clarify that the blood-sucking, itself, is extremely quick (less time than someone would spend sucking on a cut finger), and perfunctory. And the blood is spat out, not swallowed. So it's not a sexual thing or a vampiric thing.

However, considering it has been implicated in cases of herpes infection in neonates, including leading to brain damage and several deaths, I think it should definitely be discontinued.
 
This 'ritual' is far more than a ritual! As a nurse, I can say the risk for infection is so high that it is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe a parent would allow this, much less the law!
 
gngr~snap said:
My grandmother's first son died from a circumcision as well. FROM GANGRENE! He was 6 months old... :( When she had my dad she did it again! (we are not Jewish so it's really a cosmetic choice) No way I would have! *not after losing a baby that way, but she felt like my father would NOT get the same infection.She was right. He was fine.
I used to work for a Dr. that worked with babies on medicaid. He did them in his office for $80.00 cash. With a plasti-bell, not one of my favorite jobs! I was out of there in less than a year.

NEVER ONCE thought about transmitting herpes~ geez!
Click to expand...


(above bbm)
Just want to add my 2 cents' worth: Circumcision's are not necessarily done for cosmetic reasons. My husband was not circumcised until he was 28, due to chronic and recurring infections. Once the extra skin was gone, so were the infections.
 
Okay, I'm confused... how long after the circumcision did this baby die? I tried to go back to the article but it asked for a log in.

Babies are at risk of contracting herpes in the birth canal, too. Has it been proven, beyond all other risks, that it was the mohel who infected them?

I'm appalled by the practice, too, but no more so than other types of religious rituals... yet, for grief's sake, have a dang health check up to make certain your not spreading disease! Is that so difficult?
 
Etilema said:
The problem in an orthodox religion is that practices appropriate to certain milieux get ossified and brought along through changes in time and become a hill to die on, which they never, ever should have been.

In the Jewish religion, LIFE holds the highest value in almost every case, and there is no way this practice should be taking precedence over the risk to newborns. Just my passionately-felt opinion.
Click to expand...

Beautifully stated. I agree 100%. I grew up in (and still live in) a community that is half Jewish and half Catholic. While everyone is aware, tolerant, and respectful of each others' practices and traditions, this one has turned everyone's stomach. We had no idea this went on.
 
Are you kidding me?

The procedure occurs during the circumcision ritual of the bris, as the practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin of the penis and then sucks the blood from the wound to clean it.

And then there's this: (from a different article)

Mezizah: By this is meant the sucking of the blood from the wound. The mohel takes some wine in his mouth and applies his lips to the part involved in the operation, and exerts suction, after which he expels the mixture of wine and blood into a receptacle (see Fig. 4, below) provided for the purpose. This procedure is repeated several times, and completes the operation, except as to the control of the bleeding and the dressing of the wound.


WTH?

I don't care what religion someone is affiliated with that is disgusting and perverted! If doctors or nurses did that in any hospital they would be arrested on site. Ritual or not. No man should have his lips on a newborns penis.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but this poor baby suffered, and no baby should suffer and die at trusted hands. Let me guess - no charges were filed either.

MOO

Mel
 
Mel, it wasn't necessarily "disgusting and perverted" before the invention of antibiotics, when alcohol, saliva and blood flow were the only way to cleanse a wound.

But I agree this is a ritual that needs to be confined to antiquity along with (literal) blood sacrifices.
 
Nova said:
Mel, it wasn't necessarily "disgusting and perverted" before the invention of antibiotics, when alcohol, saliva and blood flow were the only way to cleanse a wound.

But I agree this is a ritual that needs to be confined to antiquity along with (literal) blood sacrifices.
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Blood flow is an important element. When blood flows from a wound, it pushes out contaminants that may have been on the surface of the skin or on the object that made the cut. That is why it is always important that blood flow from a wound (especially a puncture).

But, yes, this method should now be dropped.
 
What part of this procedure makes any sense in this day and age? What would happen if the child were to contract HIV/AIDs; Hep C; gangrene; etc? why on earth would this practice still be honored (ie: oral cleansing) when it clearly places children at risk? I think criminal charges should be brought and pursued against the perpetrator of this act . . . I don't care his motive - the outcome is still the same. I am sorry but this is Sick and WRONG on so many levels - IMO!
 
Nova said:
Mel, it wasn't necessarily "disgusting and perverted" before the invention of antibiotics, when alcohol, saliva and blood flow were the only way to cleanse a wound.

But I agree this is a ritual that needs to be confined to antiquity along with (literal) blood sacrifices.
Click to expand...

Yes, but this is 2012, not 1912. We have the means to circumcise boys safely and there's no need for a ritual which requires an adult mouth on an infant penis. I stand by my disgusting and perverted comment. Because it's hidden behind a religious ritual doesn't make it okay in the least to me.

I really hope the community that practices this so called ritual has some laws placed behind it -- it should be illegal IMHO.

MOO thanks!

Mel
 
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