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  1. #16
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    JMHO, but 2 1/2 year olds rarely have reached gender identification. In their world, everyone is the same and there is not two separate genders. Yes we know Mommy & Daddy, but that's just by words not by gender identification. It's not until much later in their early years that they discover that men and women have different looking sexual organs; and by age 7 they develop the understanding that men and women are infact a lot different physically. CY chose a doll that looked like her Mommy with dark hair, and then a doll that was bigger than mommy with grayish hair that happened to be a woman. In her 2 1/2 year old mind, the gender of the dolls didn't matter. It was the bigger doll giving mommy a spanking for biting that is important. Whoever did this to mommy was bigger & stronger. Whether CY assumed it was for biting, or told it was for biting we'll never know. But at 2 1/2 it's pretty typical to be in trouble for biting another person... so did her little 2 1/2 year old mind rationalize her mothers beating as that? Or was she told that? My only hope is that she will never remember that horrible night.

  2. #17
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    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    My hope is that if she does remember all or part of that horrible night, she's believed and won't be subject to criticism or suggestions her memories have been planted by others. Bad enough she had to experience that night, it would compound the cruelty if she weren't believed.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    My hope is that if she does remember all or part of that horrible night, she's believed and won't be subject to criticism or suggestions her memories have been planted by others. Bad enough she had to experience that night, it would compound the cruelty if she weren't believed.
    Exactly. If she remembers anything, it's her perception of it that is important, and as you said, 'to be believed'. She should never be burdoned by a need for *proof* of her own perceptions. As someone who experienced extreme trauma's from that young age, the images may become buried over time, but they remain inside, sometimes triggered by something at a later date. It can be a sound, a smell, a glimpse of something similar. And when they come, hopefully she will have someone to help her understand what's inside her. I feel confident that with the Fisher family, especially her aunt Meredith, she will come through and find peace and security. I think Meredith will always make sure she has a professional who can help her through whatever lies ahead. Covering things up, attempting to bury them deeper, only causes more pain, fear, & insecurity.

  4. #19
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    For the life of me,I cannot find the video of Michelle and Cassidy where she is sitting in high chair playing their huh game. at the end Cassidy says"I love you Mommy" Can someone plz help me? Thanks so much.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by suz1729 View Post
    For the life of me,I cannot find the video of Michelle and Cassidy where she is sitting in high chair playing their huh game. at the end Cassidy says"I love you Mommy" Can someone plz help me? Thanks so much.
    http://www.wral.com/news/local/video...1/#/vid2044551


    2nd birthday 3/2006
    http://www.wral.com/news/local/video...5/#/vid2044715

  6. #21
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    What a horrible, horrible loss. For what? JLY's selfishness. His irrational anger. And his total and complete lack of care, concern, empathy for the needs of anyone but himself. Mama's boy cared not a whit about robbing his own child of *her* beloved mommy.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella5 View Post
    JMHO, but 2 1/2 year olds rarely have reached gender identification. In their world, everyone is the same and there is not two separate genders. Yes we know Mommy & Daddy, but that's just by words not by gender identification. It's not until much later in their early years that they discover that men and women have different looking sexual organs; and by age 7 they develop the understanding that men and women are infact a lot different physically. CY chose a doll that looked like her Mommy with dark hair, and then a doll that was bigger than mommy with grayish hair that happened to be a woman. In her 2 1/2 year old mind, the gender of the dolls didn't matter. It was the bigger doll giving mommy a spanking for biting that is important. Whoever did this to mommy was bigger & stronger. Whether CY assumed it was for biting, or told it was for biting we'll never know. But at 2 1/2 it's pretty typical to be in trouble for biting another person... so did her little 2 1/2 year old mind rationalize her mothers beating as that? Or was she told that? My only hope is that she will never remember that horrible night.

    I totally agree with this post and have thought this all along. The doll she chose as Mommy had a pony tail. And the other doll had very short puffy hair not much unlike her dads. Also wearing pants and a jacket. To me it was very clear and logical that she chose those two dolls and chose the male looking one as the one doing the hitting. jmo
    My prayers are for the innocent.

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  8. #23
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    What was most telling for me is, she never gave any sort of *name* to the second doll. She didn't display any fear or confusion over the second doll. It wasn't a monster or a bad man. Fearful children are usually found hiding under the bed or in a closet, not watching the bad man *spank* mommy.

    Children that age also have a distinct understanding between the words 'hit & spank'. A *spank* comes from a parent. A *hit* comes from another child. Someone else. Our children/grandchildren don't come running to us and say 'so & so *spanked* me'. They come running and say Johnny HIT me. Emma HIT me. In all my years as a mother & grandmother, I have never heard any of my children or grandchildren, when one of their siblings or another child they are playing with HITS them, to come running and say they were *spanked*. They always use the word HIT in reference to being HIT. Now if one of them did something wrong, they might say 'Daddy's gonna *SPANK* you when he gets home.' They understand the difference. At school or at home they are told 'NO HITTING!' Not 'no spanking each other.' CY specifically used the term SPANKING. Not bad man was HITTING mommy.

  9. #24
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    CY used the word *daddy* in the 911 tape when asked by Meredith 'was anyone here last night?' Meredith herself stated, in testimony, CY made references to 'her father'. That fact was never disputed by the defense team. They didn't jump up and cross examine Meredith about that statement during the trial. They could have cross examined her right there on the spot about what CY said to her, but they didn't.

    As far as CY not referencing the second doll as *daddy* to the daycare worker. Children that age, most times, will not acknowledge the person they see *hurting* either themselves or someone else. It often times takes years of therapy for them to identify, by name, who did the 'bad stuff'.

    As to it being simple child play, the daycare workers testified that CY's behavior after the event had changed. She played by herself. She didn't interact with the other children as she had before the event. She stayed off to herself, remote, distanced.

  10. #25
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    The actual characteristics of the doll figures don't make much difference to me. Where I have some doubt it in the identification of the figures. One was distinctly identified as the mother figure, yet the other figure is unidentified. The two most prominent figures in a 2 year old's life are the mother and father. Why was the child only able to identify the mother?


  11. #26
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    Sorry, I don't believe CY was all up in the attack close enough to see any biting. I think that's what she was told by her daddy as to why mommy was getting a spanking. MOO
    PJ

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The actual characteristics of the doll figures don't make much difference to me. Where I have some doubt it in the identification of the figures. One was distinctly identified as the mother figure, yet the other figure is unidentified. The two most prominent figures in a 2 year old's life are the mother and father. Why was the child only able to identify the mother?
    It might be a stretch and just a guess, but maybe she didn't want to 'tell on' whoever was hurting her mother and causing the red stuff all over her. She didn't want to be a tattle tale. And maybe in her own mind she didn't want it to be daddy. jmo
    My prayers are for the innocent.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The actual characteristics of the doll figures don't make much difference to me. Where I have some doubt it in the identification of the figures. One was distinctly identified as the mother figure, yet the other figure is unidentified. The two most prominent figures in a 2 year old's life are the mother and father. Why was the child only able to identify the mother?
    She witnessed an extremely violent event. Usually they don't identify the person who committed the violence *if* that person is someone close to them. The entire event is too traumatizing to them. Their little minds can't accept that someone they loved and trusted did a bad thing. So their minds shut down. Immediately after the event, CY told Meredith about her daddy. Days later....the person spanking mommy became no one. Not bad man, not monster, no one. Ask a child psychologist if that is not quite normal for a young child, to distance themselves from the person they loved, the person they saw. When I say 'distance themselves' I'm referring to emotionally accepting who and what they saw. I fear that CY did NOT get the proper care immediately afterwards, because she was taken away by the young family. Off to Brevard. Certainly not to a child psychologist who would be able to hear what she might have to say. The young family had an interest in keeping her child-chatter from outsiders, hence the extremely strict visitation rules the fisher family had to endure. Never being left alone with CY.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracielee View Post
    What a horrible, horrible loss. For what? JLY's selfishness. His irrational anger. And his total and complete lack of care, concern, empathy for the needs of anyone but himself. Mama's boy cared not a whit about robbing his own child of *her* beloved mommy.
    Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. He orphaned both his children right there in that one horrible, horrible act. There is nothing more to say.


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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracielee View Post
    She witnessed an extremely violent event. Usually they don't identify the person who committed the violence *if* that person is someone close to them. The entire event is too traumatizing to them. Their little minds can't accept that someone they loved and trusted did a bad thing. So their minds shut down. Immediately after the event, CY told Meredith about her daddy. Days later....the person spanking mommy became no one. Not bad man, not monster, no one. Ask a child psychologist if that is not quite normal for a young child, to distance themselves from the person they loved, the person they saw. When I say 'distance themselves' I'm referring to emotionally accepting who and what they saw. I fear that CY did NOT get the proper care immediately afterwards, because she was taken away by the young family. Off to Brevard. Certainly not to a child psychologist who would be able to hear what she might have to say. The young family had an interest in keeping her child-chatter from outsiders, hence the extremely strict visitation rules the fisher family had to endure. Never being left alone with CY.
    Do you have some sort of link to support the statement that 2 year olds usually don't identify a person committing violence?

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