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  1. #1
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    ATLANTIC CITY SK: possible link to LISK and GB4?

    Forgive me if this has already been addressed, but has either LI or AC LE ever come out and given one good reason why they have ruled out a connection between the 2? I know they don't have to. But I'm just curious. We know SKs often travel and those areas really aren't that far all things considered.
    Related threads:

    Possible connection between the GB4, AC and other murders

    NJ NJ - Atlantic City Murders, 4 Women Found Dead behind Motel, Egg Harbor Twp, Nov 2006
    Last edited by bessie; 03-18-2015 at 03:01 PM. Reason: added links

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc20015 View Post
    Forgive me if this has already been addressed, but has either LI or AC LE ever come out and given one good reason why they have ruled out a connection between the 2? I know they don't have to. But I'm just curious. We know SKs often travel and those areas really aren't that far all things considered.
    Nope.
    People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. ~ Bob Dylan

  3. #3
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    Which of us dug into the AC murders and has alot of info on that case they can share? I had alot of info, but lost it all some time back when my computer died on me. Can anyone provide a basic outline of info for those murders?

    Just K, you had something, didn't you?
    People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. ~ Bob Dylan

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat View Post
    Which of us dug into the AC murders and has alot of info on that case they can share? I had alot of info, but lost it all some time back when my computer died on me. Can anyone provide a basic outline of info for those murders?

    Just K, you had something, didn't you?
    Hi MK, I never read much about these murders but found this thread from 2006 from that time not long after the girls were found. The links might be too old to work:


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...c+city+murders

    Also, It takes between 2.5 to 4 hours to make the drive: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_i..._Atlantic_City

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat View Post
    http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=41917

    Several prostitutes in the city have mentioned other street walkers who have gone missing. One woman, who calls herself "Sheri," told AMW producers that two prostitutes, "Heather" and "Peaches," haven't been seen for quite some time.

    Peaches?! Any chance this could be our "Peaches" found in Hempstead?

    http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/...urder-victims/

    But, how long is "awhile"? The AC murders were in 2006, weren't they? 10 years in more that "awhile", imo. Still...curious coincidence.
    I've read now the bodies were found on Monday, Nov 20th, 2006. If it is true the girls were killed the day before they were found that would mean they could have indeed been killed on the weekend. The link to that info BTW is kaput - too old. Here is what it said:
    (CBS/AP) EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. The bodies of four dead women were found Monday afternoon behind a motel outside Atlantic City, authorities said.

    The bodies were found face down in several inches of water in a ditch, said Janet Niedosik, a spokeswoman for the Atlantic County prosecutor's office.

    http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_324214931.html


    I also wrote a post in Nov of 2006 saying: "I heard one was killed 2 months ago, then another one month ago, one 2 weeks and the last a few days up to a week". I would have to have read an article that stated such - most of them are deleted now.

    Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bodies Of 4 Women Found Behind N.J. Motel
    Last edited by bessie; 05-17-2015 at 11:52 AM. Reason: repaired link

  6. #6
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    Atlantic City victims, date when they were last seen in Atlantic City:

    Oct 7:
    Atlantic City murder victim Molly Dilts disappear


    Oct 17:

    Atlantic City murder victim Barbara Breidor disappear


    Nov 15:
    Atlantic City murder victim Tracy Roberts disappear


    Nov 19:
    Atlantic City murder victim Kim Raffo was alleged seen for the last time by Joe Boccino, owner of Papa Joe's, an Atlantic City diner, at 2:30 AM




    Toxicology reports on the four, Nov 20, 2006, Atlantic City murder victims:
    Kim Raffo: large amounts of cocaine

    Tracy Roberts: large amounts of cocaine

    Barbara Breidor: potentially lethal dose of heroin

    Molly Dilts: alcohol (no drugs)



    Cause of death on the four, Nov 20, 2006, Atlantic City murder victims:

    Kim Raffo: strangulation by ligature

    Tracy Roberts: died by asphyxia "by unspecified means."

    Barbara Breidor: condition of the body made an exact cause of death difficult to determine.

    Molly Dilts: condition of the body made an exact cause of death difficult to determine.
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear with me

  7. #7
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    The AC girls were Streetwalkers; the LI girls were Craigslist escorts. That’s a big difference. They were all drug users but realistically, I suspect most "working girls" from High end call girls to ghetto "strawberries" are drug users. The bodies were all laid out in the same direction but that is probably because the perp used the same method to drag all of his victims from a car to the dump site. He probably figured out that he had a good dump site but didn't want to attract attention by stopping at exactly the same spot so he deliberately "spaced" them out.

    Overall, I do not see any strong connection between the two clusters. I believe they are unrelated.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat View Post
    http://www.practicalhomicide.com/current/11262006.htm

    Geberth called the ditch where the bodies were found the killer's "totem place," where he could glean a "feeling of superiority" each time he went there and had the opportunity to "validate or relive his crimes."

    Sound familiar?

    How far is AC from Oak Beach...in terms of hours? Wonder if the AC girls were killed on weekends.
    Bolded by me


    The only one we know for sure was killed on a weekend is Kim Raffo as she disappeared on the 19th and was found on the 20th.

    I just don't see any pattern as to when they were taken - 1st kill then wait 10 days to take the next gal - then 29 days til the next and finally 4 days later Kim is taken.
    Last edited by scandi; 01-27-2012 at 11:26 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJGuy View Post
    Morning everyone,

    There is quite a bit of info on AC murders, some of it true, some false info that was reported in the media. Anyway, I know a lot about the AC killings, and that was what initially drew me to the GB4. It would take forever and a day to post all the links and write my own info on AC, but if there are questions, specific or general about the AC murders, please feel free to ask away. I will be happy to help in any way I can. I have visited the physical locations multiple times of the AC and have constructed my own theories and timelines and charts about the killings. So if I can help in any way, I most certainly will
    Hi there, When a gal picks up a guy does she pick the place where they go? That motel right close to where they were found - do you think all 4 used that place? That would make it a close by dump site.

    Also NJGuy, do you know if all 4 girls were moved to that creek at the same time or rather each one put there after being killed? I guess I think of the dump site as being too open to leave bodies there for several weeks without being discovered.

    Thanks

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by scandi View Post
    Hi there, When a gal picks up a guy does she pick the place where they go? That motel right close to where they were found - do you think all 4 used that place? That would make it a close by dump site.

    Also NJGuy, do you know if all 4 girls were moved to that creek at the same time or rather each one put there after being killed? I guess I think of the dump site as being too open to leave bodies there for several weeks without being discovered.

    Thanks
    Two women who were walking back there, IIRC, were the ones to find them. It's a pretty nasty area and it's not the kind of place one might go for a casual or leisurely stroll. Most likely the women either worked at the motel and were out there for some work related reason or they were "working." This area, behind the motel, is a trash strewn ditch. The motel and the ditch sit in between two highways. It is not in the commercial (boardwalk & casino) section of AC...

    I'd have to check on this but the general consensus is that the women who were missing the longest had the most decomp to their faces that were in the storm ditch.


  11. #11
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    Hi Scandi, JustK is correct. The are where the hotel is located and where the girls were found is in a bad area. Specifically, the Golden Key is a bad, bad place. Prostitution, drugs, gangs, etc all frequent the hotel. It is known as a seedy, shady place. Further, reports have at least two of the girls working the track (the street right off the boardwalk that is filled with prostitutes. Pacific Ave and Atlantic Ave are the two main streets right off the boardwalk where men and working girls find each other. It is possible to drive on the road and/or walk on the street to find a girl. The hotel is a good distance away from the boardwalk and track, and reports suggest at least 2 of the girls were picked up on the track and driven somewhere, before eventually being discovered behind the hotel. JustK is also correct in that the hotel is situated between the AC Expressway and the Black Horse Pike (which is the road the hotel is actually on) and where the girls were discovered is a fairly narrow, but long stretch of grassy field with a drainage/sewage ditch running through it. Certainly not easy to get to, unless you're familiar with the hotel. It is quite an open area, however, it is also an area where no one will go unless they have a specific reason for doing so. It is unclear if they were all dumped at the same time or one at a time. My hunch, is that they were dumped individually. He would need a place to store all the bodies before dumping them, and that doesn't seem to fit. (Unless he was a local, or kept a place in AC).
    There was also the report of one of the victims (Kim R.) getting into a black Nissan Maxima with out of state plates in the very early morning she went missing. This was reported by a deli owner who often met and knew many of the working girls, including KIm. This deli is near the boardwalk, closer to the casino area than the hotel. Also, there was video at one of the casinos (I believe Caesars) of Kim very early in the morning, however I'm not sure what came of that video.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kemo View Post
    The AC girls were Streetwalkers; the LI girls were Craigslist escorts. Thatís a big difference. They were all drug users but realistically, I suspect most "working girls" from High end call girls to ghetto "strawberries" are drug users. The bodies were all laid out in the same direction but that is probably because the perp used the same method to drag all of his victims from a car to the dump site. He probably figured out that he had a good dump site but didn't want to attract attention by stopping at exactly the same spot so he deliberately "spaced" them out.

    Overall, I do not see any strong connection between the two clusters. I believe they are unrelated.
    BBM

    Not a big difference from my perspective. They were all easy targets, disposable "things" in the mind of our sk, all shared a profession where friends and family are usually not in touch enough to notice them missing right away, and by the very nature of that profession, LE doesn't bother to investigate unless family bugs them or an UB turns up on a beach somewhere. In my mind, those things are strong commonalities. I don't for one second believe our sk limits himself to craigslist exclusively. JMO
    People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. ~ Bob Dylan

  13. #13
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    More random thoughts:

    If the AC murders and the GB murders are connected, what might account for AC being a spree killing and GB being a spaced out killing?

    ~Possible the guy was questioned in connection with the AC murders, and forced himself to become more disciplined? Highly doubt that.

    ~ Possible he's STILL spree killing at time of GB murders, but not dumping the bodies in chronological order at dumpsites? That doesn't feel right to me, but only because it goes against who I think this guy is.

    ~ Perhaps he needed to spree kill in AC because he needed to keep the thrill level high often. Perhaps he found a better way of prolonging the thrill by the time he started the GB murders. How could he accomplish that? Take a victim, keep her alive for awhile, then kill her when the thrill is gone and hunt for another. What scares and sickens me about THIS thought is that it DOES ring true to me. On many levels.
    People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. ~ Bob Dylan

  14. #14
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    The AC murders happened in a relatively short period of time, and the perp kept trophies, i.e. the shoes, of his victims. It just seems ridiculous to think the AC killer started and ended his life of crime with four women that were murdered and dumped in a ritualistic appearing manner (heads facing east, all face down in a drainage ditch, spaced relatively evenly apart). Even before I had ever heard of the GB4, I had thought of the AC killer as someone who had been "on vacation" in AC, but stressed for some reason - thus the 4 murders in a short period of time.

  15. #15
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    Spoiler alert

    The two men from Dark Minds on the ID channel were interviewed on TODAY this morning. The SK that they confer with is called 'Thirteen'.
    'Thirteen' thinks the AC and LI cases are connected. They also said that 'Thirteen' was spot on about some facts especially in the AC case, IIRC.

    I looked for a link to the interview but it's not posted to their site yet.

    This show sounds interesting! IMO Here's a link to the upcoming episode......

    http://investigation.discovery.com/t...-guide-02.html

    Does The Eastbound Strangler have a cross to bear against women he considers "fallen"? Is there a religious basis for the eastward positioning of the bodies? And are the later murders of four prostitutes in Long Island connected?

    To get inside the Dark Mind of this murderer, Phelps must rely on criminal profiler John Kelly — and personal insight from Kelly's secret source, a convicted serial killer code-named "13".



    wm
    Last edited by waltzingmatilda; 01-29-2012 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Add link
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

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