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Thread: IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthropos View Post
    hi all. first time commenter, long time (sporadic) lurker.

    i am an indiana native, and just graduated from iu bloomington in 2010. i'm super interested in this case given my close connection to bloomington.

    i've read and re-read so much about this case that i've recently wondered if the following is probable. given that the spierers have recently put a lot of pressure on CR and informally cleared JR, i wonder if LS left JR's house in a reasonable state of mind, but realized she didn't have her keys and returned to CR's so she could get back into her apartment. i've always been bothered about LS leaving if she didn't have anything with her-- where the heck was she planning on going? is it a possibility that she did in fact leave, and then turned around and headed towards CR's as she was en route to her apartment?

    secondly, i know MB had a paper due that day. part of me wonders if he would have left to go to the library to finish it after all the commotion, or even left briefly to print it off. the IUB library is open 24/7, and this is common. i don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist (especially on my first post), but it seems possible that he's covering up where he might have been so as not to unintentionally place any blame on CR by showing he had an open window.

    any thoughts on this scenario?
    Welcome, anthropos! I do wonder whether JR actually saw LS leave, but then she turned around and returned to 5 North after the fact. Maybe to find her keys or maybe because she decided to crash there after all. While I don't get why she went with him to 5 North in the first place, she might have even decided to go and check on CR. That opens up different scenarios ... her going back to CR/MB's place, being intercepted by someone else along the way, or being taken by someone else in the building even.

    IMO, MB's "paper alibi" doesn't seem that solid. Who knows how far along he was on the paper, to begin with. CR/MB could be tag-teaming here, based on that ... MB says CR crashed; CR doesn't see MB because he did so.

    That said, IDK how CR/MB could have disposed of LS in the given timeframe, especially if CR was indeed wasted or injured.

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  3. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammi89 View Post
    Hi, I've only posted a few times but check up often. Sad to see nothing new has really been happening.

    I think that is plausible and would explain a lot of the recent pressure back on CR. I know girls on my campus that get so wasted that they have to have someone else read their texts to them and often ask others to hold onto their things if they do not have pockets or a purse. I wouldn't be surprised if LS had asked CR to hold onto them earlier in the night and returned to get them.

    Another scenario: what if CR had supplied her with something or put something into her drink? Maybe he really did pass out, and something happened with MB? He was certainly lucid enough to think straight and CR would have reason to assist/keep quiet. Although, I still think CR's lawyering up and choice of lawyer is interesting, especially since most attention was not on him initially.

    I really would be shocked if she really did leave JR's and did not return to CR's at some point.
    One thing that has always bothered me about JR's story is why JR would let LS call DR from his phone, allegedly looking for her own, and then let her leave without lending her his phone. Actually, what difference would it have made it DR had her phone? She would have still had to walk alone to get it. She supposedly had a "friendship" with JR ... and I just don't get why he'd let her leave so defenseless. I guess that's the difference between a friend who has your back and one who doesn't.

    It would make more sense that she called DR because she didn't have her keys, thinking he could let her in. And then maybe because she couldn't reach him, she backtracked her steps to find her keys? Although I'm still more inclined to think that JR made the call ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by imkeylime View Post
    One thing that has always bothered me about JR's story is why JR would let LS call DR from his phone, allegedly looking for her own, and then let her leave without lending her his phone. Actually, what difference would it have made it DR had her phone? She would have still had to walk alone to get it. She supposedly had a "friendship" with JR ... and I just don't get why he'd let her leave so defenseless. I guess that's the difference between a friend who has your back and one who doesn't.

    It would make more sense that she called DR because she didn't have her keys, thinking he could let her in. And then maybe because she couldn't reach him, she backtracked her steps to find her keys? Although I'm still more inclined to think that JR made the call ...
    i agree about calling DR about keys or getting inside, rather than her phone. if she was coherent enough to realize she had neither, she probably would have remembered texting JW while at the bar, thus ruling out leaving her phone at DR's. I question whether security was actually there at night-- after all, security never intervened with the initial altercation at smallwood, nor did they approach CR and LS stumbling in and out of the building. i can't remember what i've read about how people can access smallwood after hours without a key. but if she called DR to get in, i would also think she would call HT if DR didn't answer. if JR knew HT well enough, i would suspect he would have her phone number, but this may not be the case. maybe he didn't have it.

    again, lots of unanswered questions. having even a few answers could help piece the puzzle together. i suspect the spierers and LE know more than we do, though.

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  6. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthropos View Post
    i agree about calling DR about keys or getting inside, rather than her phone. if she was coherent enough to realize she had neither, she probably would have remembered texting JW while at the bar, thus ruling out leaving her phone at DR's. I question whether security was actually there at night-- after all, security never intervened with the initial altercation at smallwood, nor did they approach CR and LS stumbling in and out of the building. i can't remember what i've read about how people can access smallwood after hours without a key. but if she called DR to get in, i would also think she would call HT if DR didn't answer. if JR knew HT well enough, i would suspect he would have her phone number, but this may not be the case. maybe he didn't have it.

    again, lots of unanswered questions. having even a few answers could help piece the puzzle together. i suspect the spierers and LE know more than we do, though.
    Lauren last used her cell at 12:16 AM. She was with Hadar and David and
    was still at Smallwood. The account of her being alone at Sports is not true either. She was with Corey.

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  8. #180
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    You would think security would be on duty at night because that's when you need them most. But, there are so many cameras. It is difficult for one guy to monitor all at once. Some motion detectors could have alerted one to the fight.
    Or, was security closed down?

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  10. #181
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    Reading about new developments in the Etan Patz case reminds me of the construction going on by 5 North last summer. I grapple with how LS could have left Bloomington the morning of June 3 with a POI. I wonder if there's any possibility she was hid in a construction zone and somehow moved later? Wasn't there other construction going on in town during that time as well? If so, what type of equipment was around? Cement mixers? Steel drums? Anything?

    (http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/22/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1)

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  12. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthropos View Post
    i agree about calling DR about keys or getting inside, rather than her phone. if she was coherent enough to realize she had neither, she probably would have remembered texting JW while at the bar, thus ruling out leaving her phone at DR's. I question whether security was actually there at night-- after all, security never intervened with the initial altercation at smallwood, nor did they approach CR and LS stumbling in and out of the building. i can't remember what i've read about how people can access smallwood after hours without a key. but if she called DR to get in, i would also think she would call HT if DR didn't answer. if JR knew HT well enough, i would suspect he would have her phone number, but this may not be the case. maybe he didn't have it.

    again, lots of unanswered questions. having even a few answers could help piece the puzzle together. i suspect the spierers and LE know more than we do, though.
    I've always thought that JR made the call, perhaps to tell DR that LS was leaving or something. I've also wondered if she could have left 5 North earlier than reported, with intentions of coming back for some reason, and when she didn't, JR called DR.

    I agree that security didn't seem so resourceful that night. Was a security guard supposed to be there but was absent for a time, i.e., on an early coffee/donut run? I'm sure that was thoroughly checked out, though ...

    IMO, LS could have turned around to look for her keys/wristlet on the way back to SW. OTOH, we really don't know if she habitually lost things or left them behind. I've noticed that one of my daughter's friends repeatedly does this, under no special circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imkeylime View Post
    I've always thought that JR made the call, perhaps to tell DR that LS was leaving or something. I've also wondered if she could have left 5 North earlier than reported, with intentions of coming back for some reason, and when she didn't, JR called DR.
    I've wondered this too.

    This reminded me of my very first reaction to those early rumors about possible overdose and unnamed drug dealers... My earliest thoughts about what happened, and the phone call to DR were:

    1) Lauren was in some kind of distress at this point. They knew she had either gotten drugs/ done drugs with DR earlier in the night, and called him to find out what she had done, or what to do... (Or possibly Lauren herself called, for the same reason)

    2) Lauren had left with the intention of coming back, and when she didn't, they called him to see if he knew what happened or if she had ended up back at Smallwood. One thing that comes to mind, given the rumors, is meeting someone to pick up drugs. In my experience at parties in university, drug dealers did not come and drop off the party supplies at the door. Someone would have to go meet them, or drive around the block with them to make the exchange. Girls often did this, even by themselves. (Seems crazy now, but it was assumed at the time that the person was someone that people knew so it was okay) I wondered, early on, if it was possible that Lauren went to meet someone in that parking lot/ alley and never made it back... But then, it seems that if something like that happened, there would have been phone records leading to someone else, and possibly more cooperation from the POI. It also assumes she was in the condition to not only leave by herself but that she wanted to continue partying, which seems doubtful based on the other evidence. And that doubt brings me right back to questioning the stories of the POI... more thinking in circles.

    (I have to add that I don't really like speculating about drugs because I see that her parents have been upset by these rumors and that they have caused some negative backlash against Lauren. At the same time, I've always felt that the early rumors were detailed enough and consistent enough that there may be at least a grain of truth in there somewhere... )

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    Charlene Spierer believes her daughter is no longer alive

    http://www.lohud.com/article/2012042...o-longer-alive

    Excerpt:

    Some of the people she hung out with that night remain persons of interest in the ongoing criminal investigation, and the young woman’s parents continue to question their truthfulness — even after their private investigator interviewed a couple of them.

    “I feel if she never met Corey Rossman, she’d be alive today,” Robert Spierer said of one of the students she was with that night. I believe that too.

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  18. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by imkeylime View Post
    Reading about new developments in the Etan Patz case reminds me of the construction going on by 5 North last summer. I grapple with how LS could have left Bloomington the morning of June 3 with a POI. I wonder if there's any possibility she was hid in a construction zone and somehow moved later? Wasn't there other construction going on in town during that time as well? If so, what type of equipment was around? Cement mixers? Steel drums? Anything?

    (http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/22/justic...html?hpt=hp_t1)
    Keylime, this is no exaggeration: I have lived here a long time and I have never seen the amount of heavy construction in Bloomington as there was last summer: Bypass highway around Btown, city streets, huge university buildings, and then all the various apartment projects. Just mindboggling. Deep ditches, fallen trees, bulldozers and other heavy machinery...

    Friday night I drove home via the new bypass for the first time. Nicely paved and quiet, streamlined traffic and I shuddered at the thought.

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  20. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    Keylime, this is no exaggeration: I have lived here a long time and I have never seen the amount of heavy construction in Bloomington as there was last summer: Bypass highway around Btown, city streets, huge university buildings, and then all the various apartment projects. Just mindboggling. Deep ditches, fallen trees, bulldozers and other heavy machinery...

    Friday night I drove home via the new bypass for the first time. Nicely paved and quiet, streamlined traffic and I shuddered at the thought.
    That spooks me, Jupiter! I always wonder about such places ... and given there were so many at the time, something could have been overlooked.

    Last summer, I drove around West Bloomfield, MI (JR and DR's stomping ground). There was also a lot of construction going on there. Having never been to Bloomington, IDK how the lay of the land compares. But I did see chaotic areas that I could imagine a body lost in. That spooked me, too, though I realize it's a long shot.

    I guess we take LS with us, in some respects ...

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  22. #187
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    I'd bet Lauren Spierer is not in Bloomington. She will be found though and the bad boys will face justice. That's a promise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imkeylime View Post
    That spooks me, Jupiter! I always wonder about such places ... and given there were so many at the time, something could have been overlooked.

    Last summer, I drove around West Bloomfield, MI (JR and DR's stomping ground). There was also a lot of construction going on there. Having never been to Bloomington, IDK how the lay of the land compares. But I did see chaotic areas that I could imagine a body lost in. That spooked me, too, though I realize it's a long shot.

    I guess we take LS with us, in some respects ...
    I remember when you made that trip. That we take her with us...that's a good way of putting it. I still do double takes when I'm in a woodsy, natural area...if I see an object that isn't supposed to be there.

    That said, I agree with Jacobite. I think it's more likely that she's not in this area.

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    A new article on www.fox59.com. This is the local channel. Rob says there are new leads but still wants boys to talk.

    Rob Spierer: "I hope their failures haunt them for the rest of their lives."

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  28. #190
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    I'm pretty sure all of us here share Mr. Spierer's sentiments:

    Rob Spierer responded, "I hope that they think about Lauren everyday like we do and I hope that they think about how their failure to act on her behalf had an impact on the circumstances of today. Whether it was a failure to call 911, whether it was a failure to take her to the hospital, whether it was a failure to walk her home, they're all failures.
    emphasis added by me


    http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laure...,396300.column
    HANNAH GRAHAM TIP LINE (434) 295-3851
    EMAIL: CPDtips@charlottesville.org

    __________________________________

    Muddy water in the street
    ; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"



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    I just read Jupiter's post from today(3:21pm)...that's the first time I recall ever reading that JR met up with LS and CR at Kilroys. Makes me wonder if CR and JR were in on something together... This could explain why they might have created a story that gets them both off the hook.

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  32. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    Charlene Spierer believes her daughter is no longer alive

    http://www.lohud.com/article/2012042...o-longer-alive

    Excerpt:

    Some of the people she hung out with that night remain persons of interest in the ongoing criminal investigation, and the young woman’s parents continue to question their truthfulness — even after their private investigator interviewed a couple of them.

    “I feel if she never met Corey Rossman, she’d be alive today,” Robert Spierer said of one of the students she was with that night. I believe that too.
    Wow, what a powerful article.
    Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.
    We are all just trying to make sense of an unimaginable crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mergatroid View Post
    I just read Jupiter's post from today(3:21pm)...that's the first time I recall ever reading that JR met up with LS and CR at Kilroys. Makes me wonder if CR and JR were in on something together... This could explain why they might have created a story that gets them both off the hook.
    Thank you for calling that out. That was not in the piece when I read it originally. I see it was updated late last night; the story also now includes this:

    Rossman said he was punched so hard he lost memory of the night, though video surveillance shows he helped her out of her building.

    This is the first time I've heard of video evidence. All this time the report was that a "friend" helped her out. No name was given.

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    I'm thinking we may be calling checkmate on the bad boy real soon. Maybe we did not
    look in the right place because we couldn't believe anyone could make such a stupid move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mergatroid View Post
    I just read Jupiter's post from today(3:21pm)...that's the first time I recall ever reading that JR met up with LS and CR at Kilroys. Makes me wonder if CR and JR were in on something together... This could explain why they might have created a story that gets them both off the hook.
    You're right! That changes the story quite a bit, IMO.

    It also makes me think back to the fact that the 'unofficial' account from JR's roommate's friend (on the Phish board) was that they all went back to JR's after Kilroys. Hmmm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    Rossman said he was punched so hard he lost memory of the night, though video surveillance shows he helped her out of her building.

    This is the first time I've heard of video evidence. All this time the report was that a "friend" helped her out. No name was given.
    Wouldn't this be the video that was described earlier of Lauren stumbling out of the elevator and CR helping her up and out of the building? This story was the one that challenged CR's first account that LS was helping him.

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  41. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    Thank you for calling that out. That was not in the piece when I read it originally. I see it was updated late last night; the story also now includes this:

    Rossman said he was punched so hard he lost memory of the night, though video surveillance shows he helped her out of her building.

    This is the first time I've heard of video evidence. All this time the report was that a "friend" helped her out. No name was given.

    Can someone clarify.."what building"...Kilroys? North? Smallwood? confused. Thx,

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    Quote Originally Posted by monkey222 View Post
    Can someone clarify.."what building"...Kilroys? North? Smallwood? confused. Thx,
    Smallwood ... after the fight. It was initially reported that LS helped CR home afterward. A video report later surfaced that described LS stumbling out of the SW elevator and falling to her knees. LE said at one point that they "made their way" toward 5 North, so who was helping who has always seemed fuzzy, IMO.

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  44. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbbeyR View Post
    I've wondered this too.

    This reminded me of my very first reaction to those early rumors about possible overdose and unnamed drug dealers... My earliest thoughts about what happened, and the phone call to DR were:

    1) Lauren was in some kind of distress at this point. They knew she had either gotten drugs/ done drugs with DR earlier in the night, and called him to find out what she had done, or what to do... (Or possibly Lauren herself called, for the same reason)

    2) Lauren had left with the intention of coming back, and when she didn't, they called him to see if he knew what happened or if she had ended up back at Smallwood. One thing that comes to mind, given the rumors, is meeting someone to pick up drugs. In my experience at parties in university, drug dealers did not come and drop off the party supplies at the door. Someone would have to go meet them, or drive around the block with them to make the exchange. Girls often did this, even by themselves. (Seems crazy now, but it was assumed at the time that the person was someone that people knew so it was okay) I wondered, early on, if it was possible that Lauren went to meet someone in that parking lot/ alley and never made it back... But then, it seems that if something like that happened, there would have been phone records leading to someone else, and possibly more cooperation from the POI. It also assumes she was in the condition to not only leave by herself but that she wanted to continue partying, which seems doubtful based on the other evidence. And that doubt brings me right back to questioning the stories of the POI... more thinking in circles.

    (I have to add that I don't really like speculating about drugs because I see that her parents have been upset by these rumors and that they have caused some negative backlash against Lauren. At the same time, I've always felt that the early rumors were detailed enough and consistent enough that there may be at least a grain of truth in there somewhere... )
    I've had similar thoughts, Abbey. Due to LS' petite size and heart condition, a small amount of anything with alcohol could have been dangerous—even the fight at SW could have triggered her long QT syndrome, I believe. And of course we've discussed someone slipping her something at Sports or before, which could have had the same effect.

    My biggest fear is that she had a heart-related issue and the POIs thought she was ODing. That would make this tragic story even more tragic.

    Re: girls going to meet DD, etc. IMO, a lot of girls don't think that people their own age would harm them, regardless of the circumstances. And I suppose we inadvertently support that by warning them about "dirty old men," etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbbeyR View Post
    Wouldn't this be the video that was described earlier of Lauren stumbling out of the elevator and CR helping her up and out of the building? This story was the one that challenged CR's first account that LS was helping him.
    I don't know of any account that named CR as the one who helped her up and out. This is the report I'm referring to:

    “She comes stumbling out of the elevator, trips several times toward the corner of the lobby, where she comes to rest in the corner of the lobby, falls to her knees and leans against the wall for support until a male companion comes to her aid, gathers her under his arm and escorts out of the front of the building,” a source who has viewed the video tells the Journal News.

    I've always wondered if one of the boys from the altercation or a Smallwood resident helped her up and out and then she and CR met up outside.
    Last edited by Jupiter812; 04-24-2012 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Add later thought

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