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Thread: JonBenet Ramsey's father calls beauty pageants "very bizarre"

  1. #26
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    "It's very bizarre". ... And it wasn't back then?

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    Was Patsy abused as a child? I keep seeing hints at this around...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stef88 View Post
    Was Patsy abused as a child? I keep seeing hints at this around...?
    Yeah, thats being tossed out there that possibly Pats' dad molested JB too. All kinds of theories out there.

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  7. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stef88 View Post
    Was Patsy abused as a child? I keep seeing hints at this around...?
    There has long been suspicion that this was the case with Patsy and possibly her sisters.

    When asked this very question by police, Patsy's voice trailed off and became very "small" and childlike when she answered "No". She did not answer it in the manner of someone who felt vehemently that this was not true, and she vener answered that question in a polygraph.

    Patsy's mother Nedra made on odd comment about JB's evidence of abuse. She said that JB was "only a little bit molested"- as if only a little bit of sexual contact with a child is no big deal.
    Nedra was of the generation that DID sometimes look the other way when these things happened, considering them a family matter or the kind of thing that happens sometimes.
    Sometimes the shame keeps the secret. Sometimes the secret is kept because it would be too damaging to the family or the molester (pillars of the community/church often turn out to be the worst offenders). It was thought the child would "get over it"- no real harm done, etc.

    Sexual exploration among children, especially siblings, is fairly common and not what we are talking about here, but sexual exploration between siblings that results in injury (bruising, bleeding, hymenal erosion) and/or death is certainly NOT common, usual or acceptable.
    And of course, ANY sexual contact between an adult and child is NOT acceptable and ALWAYS illegal, regardless of who the molester is or whether any physical harm is done to the child.

    Some people feel the complete silence of Patsy's OTHER sister as far as the death of her niece was most unusual, and I agree.
    Patsy's sister P, who also was a Miss West Virginia, never married or had kids, and became obese was also molested- and although these "signs" are common in abuse survivors, there is no way to prove that any of the sisters were molested by someone in their family.
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  9. #30
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    Hi there,
    Can I ask where your source is for Nedra having said that Jonbenet was only a little bit molested? Do I understand this correctly? Is that what you are reporting having read?
    Can you tell me where that came from please?

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  11. #31
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    I watched Toddlers & Tiaras. I also read a lot of what both Patsy and Steve Thomas thought about pageants- two very different perspectives.
    I wonder if pageants back in 1996 were the same as what we have today or slightly different? I got the feeling that a lot of the stage mothers I see want their daughters to be the next JBR. But I am not sure that what it was back then when she was in it was as disturbing as what we see today.
    Maybe he was just not that keen on performing. Maybe each parent wanted different things for JBR? It happens.

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  13. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myself View Post
    I watched Toddlers & Tiaras. I also read a lot of what both Patsy and Steve Thomas thought about pageants- two very different perspectives.
    I wonder if pageants back in 1996 were the same as what we have today or slightly different? I got the feeling that a lot of the stage mothers I see want their daughters to be the next JBR. But I am not sure that what it was back then when she was in it was as disturbing as what we see today.
    Maybe he was just not that keen on performing. Maybe each parent wanted different things for JBR? It happens.
    Welcome to you Myself!

    You might want to check Youtube for various videos of JonBenet and her pageants.

    Also, there is evidence, iirc, found in Death of Innocence telling quite a bit about Patsy's view. The three major books have various info and viewpoints but it seems obvious that JonBenet did have her hair lightened, wore artificial teeth (called a flipper) and that Patsy spent thousands on costuming, dance and talent lessons. She went through the "pageant scrub" according to sister Pam and Patsy, which is a thorough cleansing of the external body which I'm not sure how to interpret.

    I don't know about Boulder but that is way over the top for 1996 where I live. Around here "Little Miss (fill in the blank) County" at the county fair was about as far as anyone took their children. We've produced two Miss Kentucky winners and, knowing both of their families, I will say they did not act like Patsy. One was in the 1970s and the in 2003.

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  15. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myself View Post
    Hi there,
    Can I ask where your source is for Nedra having said that Jonbenet was only a little bit molested? Do I understand this correctly? Is that what you are reporting having read?
    Can you tell me where that came from please?
    Yes you understand it correctly.

    Although this quote has long been discussed on the forums, mine came from ST's book.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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  17. #34
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    I have read Steve Thomas' a number of times & don't recall that comment, I will go back & read.
    I take on board the comments about JonBenet & how she looked/ was prepared for the pageants and I suppose it was a little over the top. From reading various books I had the idea that John wasn't as keen on the pageants as Patsy, didn't attend as many of them, nor the preparation and he travelled a lot, so maybe had limited interest in shat was happening with his daughter's pageantry at that stage.
    Maybe afterwards he was horrified, who knows? I know he commented in Death of innocence that it is not a wise move having a public life for a child.

    I have read a number of discussions on various boards.
    I suppose I left it all because I found the discussion to be heated & personal. That was a number of years ago so maybe people's manners have changed since then.

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  19. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stef88 View Post
    Was Patsy abused as a child? I keep seeing hints at this around...?
    You're not the first to ask, Stef88. My brother thinks she was. I can't dismiss it, either.
    All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!

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  21. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    There has long been suspicion that this was the case with Patsy and possibly her sisters.

    When asked this very question by police, Patsy's voice trailed off and became very "small" and childlike when she answered "No". She did not answer it in the manner of someone who felt vehemently that this was not true, and she vener answered that question in a polygraph.

    Patsy's mother Nedra made on odd comment about JB's evidence of abuse. She said that JB was "only a little bit molested"- as if only a little bit of sexual contact with a child is no big deal.
    Nedra was of the generation that DID sometimes look the other way when these things happened, considering them a family matter or the kind of thing that happens sometimes.
    Sometimes the shame keeps the secret. Sometimes the secret is kept because it would be too damaging to the family or the molester (pillars of the community/church often turn out to be the worst offenders). It was thought the child would "get over it"- no real harm done, etc.

    Sexual exploration among children, especially siblings, is fairly common and not what we are talking about here, but sexual exploration between siblings that results in injury (bruising, bleeding, hymenal erosion) and/or death is certainly NOT common, usual or acceptable.
    And of course, ANY sexual contact between an adult and child is NOT acceptable and ALWAYS illegal, regardless of who the molester is or whether any physical harm is done to the child.

    Some people feel the complete silence of Patsy's OTHER sister as far as the death of her niece was most unusual, and I agree.
    Patsy's sister P, who also was a Miss West Virginia, never married or had kids, and became obese was also molested- and although these "signs" are common in abuse survivors, there is no way to prove that any of the sisters were molested by someone in their family.
    DD, you've been reading my notes again.
    All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!

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  23. #37
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    speaking from experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    Yeah, thats being tossed out there that possibly Pats' dad molested JB too. All kinds of theories out there.
    If Nedra was of the opinion that JB was a little bit molested which is what she stated than it should not be considered unusual that perhaps DP was a molester and NP turned and looked the other way. If I knew that my grand daughter was being abused I wouldn't sit still for one minute of it.

    And yes, JB was being primed for Miss America. Been there, done that and understand the rebelliousness JB felt and those little girls in T & T. Honestly why do they allow shows like that on t.v. To me it is child abuse in and of itself.

    Moms living vicariously through their daughters. And honestly Dad's to busy to care about what is really going on ... unless they are the abusers as well

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  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    If Nedra was of the opinion that JB was a little bit molested which is what she stated than it should not be considered unusual that perhaps DP was a molester and NP turned and looked the other way. If I knew that my grand daughter was being abused I wouldn't sit still for one minute of it.

    And yes, JB was being primed for Miss America. Been there, done that and understand the rebelliousness JB felt and those little girls in T & T. Honestly why do they allow shows like that on t.v. To me it is child abuse in and of itself.

    Moms living vicariously through their daughters. And honestly Dad's to busy to care about what is really going on ... unless they are the abusers as well
    I'm not saying I think it's impossible for JB to have expressed an interest in pageants, but the way John talked about it (IIRC), it was all JB's idea. All at her presistence. I could see her being interested in dress-up at her age but I've often wondered just how much of a push the maternal side of the house was giving.

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  27. #39
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    John also spoke to Inside Edition back in March. I can't find the video but they have an article on their website about it. Apparently, John says that pageants are "child abuse".

    http://www.insideedition.com/news/78...hn-ramsey.aspx

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  29. #40
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    Maternal push was HUGH

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    I'm not saying I think it's impossible for JB to have expressed an interest in pageants, but the way John talked about it (IIRC), it was all JB's idea. All at her presistence. I could see her being interested in dress-up at her age but I've often wondered just how much of a push the maternal side of the house was giving.
    Here's a push taken from ST pg 100: One room in the large brick home of Patsy's parents, Don and Nedra Paugh, in the Atlanta suburb of Roswell is a shrine to beauty pagents, filled with pictures and articles and with trophies and crowns won by Patsy and Pam. Nedra seemed obsessed by pagents. Only a few minutes into the interview and she couldn't stop talking about beauty contests. She told us that JB had started on the runways at the age of four for exactly the same reason children begin training for the Olympics at an early age. If you don't start them young, she said, "They fall miserably behind."

    Once in a restaurant JB was cold and wanted to put on her sweater and PR said no, "You are still on show."

    ST pg.364: I thought I had heard it all, but JR out did himself by saying that JB herself had launched the beauty pageant career and "was more insistent than Patsy." JB had seen a newspaper advertisement , he said, and told her parents she wanted to do that. ST thought it unusual for a four year old to be paging through the newspaper and reading the ads. **JB still was not reading well when she entered the first grade.

    JB was a tomboy my nature. She loved mother earth. The pageants were something that was drilled into her that she must do and that was that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    John also spoke to Inside Edition back in March. I can't find the video but they have an article on their website about it. Apparently, John says that pageants are "child abuse".

    http://www.insideedition.com/news/78...hn-ramsey.aspx
    ty for the link, eileenhawkeye,
    So, it's child abuse, but not when PR engaged in it, because she didn't take it seriously?
    Egad.

    "It's child abuse, frankly," Jon Ramsey told INSIDE EDITION.

    Ramsey, author of the new memoir, The Other Side of Suffering, watched a controversial scene from Toddlers and Tiaras where a mom gives her little girl "go-go" juice, a mixture of Red Bull and Mountain Dew, to energize her performance.

    INSIDE EDITION's Diane McInerney asked, "What would you say to these moms?"

    Ramsey responded, "Let little girls be little girls."

    .....


    "Patsy and JonBenet had fun with it. They didn't take it seriously," said Ramsey"

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  33. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadpole12 View Post
    ty for the link, eileenhawkeye,
    So, it's child abuse, but not when PR engaged in it, because she didn't take it seriously?
    Egad.

    "It's child abuse, frankly," Jon Ramsey told INSIDE EDITION.

    Ramsey, author of the new memoir, The Other Side of Suffering, watched a controversial scene from Toddlers and Tiaras where a mom gives her little girl "go-go" juice, a mixture of Red Bull and Mountain Dew, to energize her performance.

    INSIDE EDITION's Diane McInerney asked, "What would you say to these moms?"

    Ramsey responded, "Let little girls be little girls."

    .....


    "Patsy and JonBenet had fun with it. They didn't take it seriously," said Ramsey"
    How could he possibly say this in all truthfulness? The house was covered with trophies, gowns, ribbons, etc. He just keeps the lies coming .....
    Last edited by Flatlander; 05-19-2012 at 12:07 AM. Reason: spelling

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  35. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    JB was a tomboy my nature....the pageants were something that was drilled into her that she must do and that was that.
    Good point, I agree. JonBenet was indeed a very beautiful child, although she never seemed to be "into it" like some of the others.

    JR is attempting to distance himself as much as possible and downplay the significance the pageants had in JBs life as well as the fact that JB was not only encouraged by PR to compete in pageants, it was EXPECTED.

    I have watched T&T a few times, some of those kids are really talented and appear to want to be there, some of the mom's are downright nutty, seems like the only people at the pageants are family/friends of the contestants. I will say though, that little Alana Thompson "Honey Boo Boo Child" does make me laugh, she seems to be enjoying herself, (never saw her on T&T, but did catch her and her mother on the "The Dr. Drew Show"). I don't agree with giving her the "go go juice", but then again, I allowed my kids candy, pixie sticks, etc. and they would get the sugar tweaks, so, I won't judge.
    Last edited by sharkeyes; 05-20-2012 at 03:52 PM. Reason: spelling error
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  36. #44
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    [QUOTE=sharkeyes;7943042]Good point, I agree. JonBenet was indeed a very beautiful child, although she never seemed to be "into it" like some of the others.

    Probably because she was forced into it. JB did get a confidence boost, but they were fleeting moments.

    When my father was alive I told him I studied this case. His comment about JB was "Oh yes, she was the little girl that looked like Marilyn Monroe." When he said this it really hurt me for him to describe a child like this. But then I had to remember I was talking to my abuser that wanted me to be Miss America as well. ):

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  38. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    If Nedra was of the opinion that JB was a little bit molested which is what she stated than it should not be considered unusual that perhaps DP was a molester and NP turned and looked the other way. If I knew that my grand daughter was being abused I wouldn't sit still for one minute of it.

    And yes, JB was being primed for Miss America. Been there, done that and understand the rebelliousness JB felt and those little girls in T & T. Honestly why do they allow shows like that on t.v. To me it is child abuse in and of itself.

    Moms living vicariously through their daughters. And honestly Dad's to busy to care about what is really going on ... unless they are the abusers as well
    Thank you, and with you 100%. And yes, I believe JR abused JBR. God rest her soul.

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  40. #46
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    I think one reason these moms like pageants is their daughters become beauty queens as soon as they win one.

    Watch the first few seconds of this video...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nbhzKaqvA&feature=related"]6 year old BEAUTY QUEEN - YouTube[/ame]

    This kid isn't even cute...yet she's a beauty queen because she's in pageants.

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  42. #47
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    Sorry - but some things have to be said, politically correct or not (and I abhor political correctness).

    She's a snot-nose right now. She'll be a nightmare in her teens. She ain't gonna be no Beauty Queen when she grows up. She'll be a clone of her momma. I feel sorry for these homely little girls when that reality hits then in the face. And it will.
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  44. #48
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    Anderson had Alana and her mom on his show where he made the mom wear the same pageant dress and makeup as Alana. Here's a picture: (They are the second from the right)



    Here's Alana with her "pageant look"


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    Heredity is her destiny. As with us all.

    Photoshop much? I guarantee she doesn't look like that in person, even in her Pageant Look.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    I think one reason these moms like pageants is their daughters become beauty queens as soon as they win one.

    Watch the first few seconds of this video...

    6 year old BEAUTY QUEEN - YouTube

    This kid isn't even cute...yet she's a beauty queen because she's in pageants.
    Alana poor child said "A dollar make me halla, boom boom" and the mother is in the background laughing. I hate to say it she is "a redneck" and she will look like her mother when she grows up. She has an inflauted ego and that can't possibly be good for her at such a young age. She is in for a really hugh let down from society.

    DeeDee249, I beleive she has what they call a flipper in her mouth to make her teeth look better in the photoshop pic.

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