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Thread: trial thread: 3/15/2012

  1. #1
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    trial thread: 3/15/2012

    New thread for a new day. Please remember the rules






    when posting an opinion please remember to use your or or just IMO or JMO will do nicely.

    --------
    the crown will present its case in chapters:

    Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.

    An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.

    Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

    Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

    Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

    Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."

    "Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

    Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

    Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

    Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

    Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

    Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

    Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

    Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

    Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
    http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html


    reposting Salem's warning from last week:

    Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.

    Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.

    We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.

    Thank you,

    Salem
    This bee my opinion

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    Good Morning!

    Quiet day today. No court.

    Victoria, you are always in our hearts Justice is coming!

    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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    Inside the Mind of a Juror

    http://www.ctv.ca/newschannel/

    Last night on CTV newschannel they had a special report on inside the mind of a juror. It is an interview with someone from the States due to the fact that Juror's in Canada having more limitations on what is actually allowed to be discussed after the case is over with.
    Our memories shape us, providing a backdrop for our daily lives, a context for our actions, a rationale for our sometimes dubious decisions. Who we are today is inextricably woven through with memories of who we were yesterday, and the days before that.

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    Tasha Kheiriddin: Tori Stafford case shows why Canada needs the death penalty


    It is simple, it is basic, it is human; it survives statistics, defences based on horrible childhoods and theories prizing rehabilitation over punishment. It is not a blanket endorsement of the death penalty, but a recognition that in some circumstances, for justice to be truly served, the justice system must exact the ultimate price.
    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...death-penalty/
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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    Christie Blatchford: Tori Stafford knew she was in trouble, Terri-Lynne McClintic testifies

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...nne-mcclintic/


    Photos of TLM at Home Depot at the link
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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    Evidence photos from March 14th, 2012

    http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19503411.html

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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...-bernardo.html

    An interesting audio interview with the lawyer who represented the families of Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French regarding what family members go through in court, and why they sit through the proceedings, as well as the value of testimony being heard in open court.

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    Good morning everyone.

    Anyone else thinking so far that there is a huge part missing?

    Couple of questions

    1) How often did they see each other before the murder? Daily? a couple of times? ect... ( from what little i see its a half a dozen times? ) She seems the type that would be consumed by a guy and want to always be with them but from what i gather it dosent seem that way

    2) How many times did he talk about kidnapping before Tori. I would assume it was not just in passing for him to say "you gonna do it" i would have thought that they would have had some indepth conversations

    3) In the HomeDepot video, did it seem as if she was casual and not in a hurry or worried if anyone was watching her ( I know i would be hussiling and paying attention to who is around me and looking for cameras ect since " didnt want to leave a trail "

    4) When she left the HD store did she walk or was she running i couldnt tell but i think she was walking as the car pulled around..

    5) In the HD video of the car and TLM going to it, Why if there is a child in the back seat being kidnapped would that car with her in it be sitting NEXT to other cars while it waited? Did not drive to avoid cars either. Iwould be NOWHERE near anyone
    My opinion is MINE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by myzzy View Post
    Good morning everyone.

    Anyone else thinking so far that there is a huge part missing?

    Couple of questions

    1) How often did they see each other before the murder? Daily? a couple of times? ect... ( from what little i see its a half a dozen times? ) She seems the type that would be consumed by a guy and want to always be with them but from what i gather it dosent seem that way

    2) How many times did he talk about kidnapping before Tori. I would assume it was not just in passing for him to say "you gonna do it" i would have thought that they would have had some indepth conversations

    3) In the HomeDepot video, did it seem as if she was casual and not in a hurry or worried if anyone was watching her ( I know i would be hussiling and paying attention to who is around me and looking for cameras ect since " didnt want to leave a trail "

    4) When she left the HD store did she walk or was she running i couldnt tell but i think she was walking as the car pulled around..

    5) In the HD video of the car and TLM going to it, Why if there is a child in the back seat being kidnapped would that car with her in it be sitting NEXT to other cars while it waited? Did not drive to avoid cars either. Iwould be NOWHERE near anyone
    Good questions to have answers to but personally, I don't think they're relevant (or perhaps I really don't care how fast she went through the HD). We know she murdered Tori. She confessed. Rafferty is involved and we'll hear much more of his involvement later in the trial.

    Right now, they're going through all the chapters as was they're strategy when they started their case.

    BTW...they haven't finished with TLM and then there is cross so some of the questions you're asking may be answered. Maybe the timeline will be important for the defense. We'll see.
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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    Quote Originally Posted by myzzy View Post
    Good morning everyone.


    3) In the HomeDepot video, did it seem as if she was casual and not in a hurry or worried if anyone was watching her ( I know i would be hussiling and paying attention to who is around me and looking for cameras ect since " didnt want to leave a trail "

    4) When she left the HD store did she walk or was she running i couldnt tell but i think she was walking as the car pulled around..

    5) In the HD video of the car and TLM going to it, Why if there is a child in the back seat being kidnapped would that car with her in it be sitting NEXT to other cars while it waited? Did not drive to avoid cars either. Iwould be NOWHERE near anyone
    Snipped by me.
    don't know the answers to the other questions, and I agree that that info will probably come out later. As to the last few, I'm going to guess that its because they were high and didn't give a flying...eff.

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    Maybe TLM's scoliosis is the cause of her crooked walk. JMO

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    Thoughts so far

    I have posted many times since the beginning of this awful case that I'm reserving judgment until concrete evidence is presented and proven in court. That TLM was involved in the abduction was made clear almost from the beginning. The remaining question was what was the extent of MTR’s involvement.

    Until this week, there was nothing definitive – merely rumours, conjecture, and circumstantial evidence of his car being in the vicinity of Tori’s school on April 8th. The charges and the Crown’s opening statement are not evidence, as stressed by Judge Heeney.

    Most of TLM’s testimony (so far) is not evidence either – it’s merely her word against his, especially about conversations between only the two of them, and things she allegedly saw and heard without other witnesses. Her self-admitted history as a liar speaks for itself. She has admitted "flashbacks" to her own abuse. She has a long record in a short life of violence and crime. Her almost life-long drug abuse raises questions about her rationality and memory. She has given several reasons to suggest she bore some hostility towards MTR, and thus a motive for throwing him under the bus. I think the defence won’t have a tough time raising the jury’s doubts about her reliability as a witness.

    So far, the most damning evidence IMO is the outdoor Home Depot video showing TLM getting into MTR’s car. Although neither MTR nor Tori can be seen in that clip, it certainly begs for explanation. Definitely does not look good. I’m eager to hear what other physical evidence the Crown has to exhibit and to other witnesses’ testimonies. It should be fascinating to hear the defence’s arguments and cross-examinations. There are a lot of holes here that need to be filled.

    Right now, I have the same sinking feeling that RS does: that we will probably never know everything that really happened that terrible day. If we feel bad about that, imagine how Tori’s family does! I sure can’t.

    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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    I have a question that I hope is answered by TLM:

    When they went to Home Depot why did she buy a hammer and garbage bags? Did MR tell her what to buy? I am guessing he did since he is the puppetmaster. What the heck did she think they were for?
    There are gaps that need to be filled.


    I spent a lot of my evening trying to piece everything together.
    "No one believes a word out of your mouth, why do you keep talking?" --Ryan Owens (ABC News)

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    I'm curious. What more do people need to know? Dear God, what I heard so far from TLM was enough to haunt me for the rest of my life. Do we need to know how much more this poor child suffered? Was the brutality as described by TLM not enough evidence of what Tori suffered?

    Maybe RS doesn't believe TLM killed Tori and both TLM and MR had a part in her murder and perhaps he believes TLM is protecting MR in some way so he doesn't get convicted of 1st degree. Or perhaps some of his questions were answered. I don't know.

    I'm questioning those here that still think there is more. What do you think the murderer hasn't said already that you feel she should?
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    Her self-admitted history as a liar speaks for itself. She has admitted "flashbacks" to her own abuse.
    Snipped and bolded by me:


    I was thinking yesterday about all the lies TLM told and she's probably lying on the stand as well about things, some of her story seems so dramatic, almost like a fantasy, even the way she talks on the stands sometimes sounds made up. So we know she is a liar.

    But, MR is also a liar in my eyes, lying about his school credentials, lying about his work credentials, lying on his social media profiles, lying to his girlfriends, cheating on his girlfriends. He as well will have some credibility issues IMO.
    Though I fall, I fall like a star, streaming splendour through the sky.
    Justice has not failed Victoria... Rest in peace Angel.

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    “If two points are destined to touch, the universe will always find a way to make the connection. Even when all hope seems lost, certain ties cannot be broken. They define who we are — and who we can become. Across space, across time, even across paths we cannot predict.” -Touch

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  31. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by KMouse View Post
    I have a question that I hope is answered by TLM:

    When they went to Home Depot why did she buy a hammer and garbage bags? Did MR tell her what to buy? I am guessing he did since he is the puppetmaster. What the heck did she think they were for?
    There are gaps that need to be filled.


    I spent a lot of my evening trying to piece everything together.
    I was just to ask this same question somewhat. Are there any tweets from anyone in the court about this conversation? I can't find one and if anyone here has one saved can they post it here or direct me to where I can find it. TIA

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  33. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMouse View Post
    I have a question that I hope is answered by TLM:

    When they went to Home Depot why did she buy a hammer and garbage bags? Did MR tell her what to buy? I am guessing he did since he is the puppetmaster. What the heck did she think they were for?
    There are gaps that need to be filled.


    I spent a lot of my evening trying to piece everything together.


    Didn't we hear from her evidence that 'she was instructed to do so' in connection with buying the hammer.
    Though I fall, I fall like a star, streaming splendour through the sky.
    Justice has not failed Victoria... Rest in peace Angel.

    Princess on Earth, Angel in Heaven


    “If two points are destined to touch, the universe will always find a way to make the connection. Even when all hope seems lost, certain ties cannot be broken. They define who we are — and who we can become. Across space, across time, even across paths we cannot predict.” -Touch

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  35. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    I'm curious. What more do people need to know? Dear God, what I heard so far from TLM was enough to haunt me for the rest of my life. Do we need to know how much more this poor child suffered? Was the brutality as described by TLM not enough evidence of what Tori suffered?

    Maybe RS doesn't believe TLM killed Tori and both TLM and MR had a part in her murder and perhaps he believes TLM is protecting MR in some way so he doesn't get convicted of 1st degree. Or perhaps some of his questions were answered. I don't know.

    I'm questioning those here that still think there is more. What do you think the murderer hasn't said already that you feel she should?
    Agree! I have read over 30 cases involving children in the last year, this detailed testimony will stay etched in my mind for a very long time. I literally got a migrain during her first day from being so angry at what I was reading followed by wanting to cry at my work desk trying to wrap my head around how sick people are.

    BTW I think RS knows that MR had done things in the past that he can't disclose beacuse they are not submissable in court.
    Take the road of truth or it will eventually be done for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    I'm curious. What more do people need to know? Dear God, what I heard so far from TLM was enough to haunt me for the rest of my life. Do we need to know how much more this poor child suffered? Was the brutality as described by TLM not enough evidence of what Tori suffered?

    Maybe RS doesn't believe TLM killed Tori and both TLM and MR had a part in her murder and perhaps he believes TLM is protecting MR in some way so he doesn't get convicted of 1st degree. Or perhaps some of his questions were answered. I don't know.

    I'm questioning those here that still think there is more. What do you think the murderer hasn't said already that you feel she should?
    BBM- The truth, the whole truth. Thats what I feel she should say. I would want to know everything vs just snips of it. She admitted to the murder but he has not and if we dont have the whole picture i dont think that a fair trial would have been given do you?

    She has lied, she has skirted the truth ( if that is the truth ) and she is no way a crediable witness in my opinion and I want nothing but closure for the family and for justice to be served to those involved.

    Tori's whole case is heartwrenching and hit way to close to home for so many people, Tori could have been anyones child
    My opinion is MINE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsoul2 View Post
    Agree! I have read over 30 cases involving children in the last year, this detailed testimony will stay etched in my mind for a very long time. I literally got a migrain during her first day from being so angry at what I was reading followed by wanting to cry at my work desk trying to wrap my head around how sick people are.

    BTW I think RS knows that MR had done things in the past that he can't disclose beacuse they are not submissable in court.
    Perhaps he does and there is a lot he can't say because of the trial. Once this other perp is convicted, I have a feeling Rodney will let it all out.

    I think he is trying so hard to keep his cool. I just can't imagine what this is doing to him, having to listen to this monster detailing how she murdered his baby girl. Inhumane!
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  41. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by myzzy View Post
    BBM- The truth, the whole truth. Thats what I feel she should say. I would want to know everything vs just snips of it. She admitted to the murder but he has not and if we dont have the whole picture i dont think that a fair trial would have been given do you?

    She has lied, she has skirted the truth ( if that is the truth ) and she is no way a crediable witness in my opinion and I want nothing but closure for the family and for justice to be served to those involved.

    Tori's whole case is heartwrenching and hit way to close to home for so many people, Tori could have been anyones child
    Lied about what as it relates to Tori's abduction and murder? We see her luring Tori from school, we see her at HD purchasing garbage bags and hammer, there were evidence photos shown to the jury. The jury will get to go to Mt. Forest to visit the crime scene. They got to see the surveillance video of the abduction. We haven't even gotten to forensics yet.

    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that whatever TLM said is true (as it relates to Tori's abduction and murder). The rest of the stuff, I couldn't give a rat's arse about. How many times she drugged herself, or about her stripper mother, ......don't care!
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  43. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post

    Most of TLM’s testimony (so far) is not evidence either – it’s merely her word against his, especially about conversations between only the two of them, and things she allegedly saw and heard without other witnesses. Her self-admitted history as a liar speaks for itself. She has admitted "flashbacks" to her own abuse. She has a long record in a short life of violence and crime. Her almost life-long drug abuse raises questions about her rationality and memory. She has given several reasons to suggest she bore some hostility towards MTR, and thus a motive for throwing him under the bus. I think the defence won’t have a tough time raising the jury’s doubts about her reliability as a witness.

    JMO
    Respectfully snipped (again)

    I always figured TLM was the one who had it in her to do the killing and strongly suspected she laid the fatal blows, but I was blown away that she actually admitted to it. I will go on record right now to say, I was wrong about her "hope" in getting out early through the Faint Hope Clause.

    Also, since I am coming "clean", I figured none of the players were talking OxyContin as prescribed, by mouth and with a glass of water, never in my dreams did I suspect they were shooting it into their veins. IMO, her mother should be on trial answering for her parenting methods too. Mother and daughter are truly pieces of "works".
    Last edited by nonfictionrocks; 03-15-2012 at 02:53 PM. Reason: type

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    The judge and lawyers will discuss legal issues behind closed doors Thursday. The jury will return to court Friday if the issues can be resolved, at which time Terri-Lynne McClintic will continue her testimony.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...ial-break.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    Lied about what as it relates to Tori's abduction and murder? We see her luring Tori from school, we see her at HD purchasing garbage bags and hammer, there were evidence photos shown to the jury. The jury will get to go to Mt. Forest to visit the crime scene. They got to see the surveillance video of the abduction. We haven't even gotten to forensics yet.

    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that whatever TLM said is true (as it relates to Tori's abduction and murder). The rest of the stuff, I couldn't give a rat's arse about. How many times she drugged herself, or about her stripper mother, ......don't care!
    For my part, I don't believe she said any of those things to Tori, I don't think she ever said 'i'm sorry' or that she 'didn't go out that morning thinking she would abduct someone' or that she meant it when she told Tori she would make sure she got home, or that she ignored MR when he talked about abduction. I don't know how she can make herself look like she is sympathizing with the victim when she was the one that delivered the death blow.

    I think maybe perhaps that's what people are feeling she isn't telling the truth.
    Though I fall, I fall like a star, streaming splendour through the sky.
    Justice has not failed Victoria... Rest in peace Angel.

    Princess on Earth, Angel in Heaven


    “If two points are destined to touch, the universe will always find a way to make the connection. Even when all hope seems lost, certain ties cannot be broken. They define who we are — and who we can become. Across space, across time, even across paths we cannot predict.” -Touch

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    On the first day of her testimony Tuesday, McClintic said she was the one who wielded the hammer after the sexual assault of Tori prompted flashbacks to her own childhood traumas. Superior Court Judge Thomas Heeney cautioned the jury on the use of prior inconsistent statements, saying that if a lie is repeated 100 times, it doesn't make it true.

    "There might be a temptation for you to conclude that because Ms. McClintic said something on at least one occasion then said the same thing on subsequent occasions that it is more likely to be the truth," Heeney said. "That would be an improper and an illogical conclusion to draw."


    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03...n_1346817.html

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