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  1. #1
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    jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

    New thread for the very long break in testimony... remember we can only discuss testimony thus far in the case and remember the rules




    when posting an opinion please remember to use your or or just IMO or JMO will do nicely.

    --------
    the crown will present its case in chapters:

    Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.

    An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.

    Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

    Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

    Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

    Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."

    "Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

    Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

    Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

    Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

    Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

    Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

    Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

    Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

    Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
    http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html


    reposting Salem's warning from last week:

    Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.

    Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.

    We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.

    Thank you,

    Salem
    Last edited by Salem; 03-16-2012 at 10:12 PM.

  2. #2
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    Has anyone created a working timeline for the trial of events testified so far that i missed?
    My opinion is MINE!

  3. #3
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    Just a question for anyone who knows, how long would it have taken for the "handful of percocets" she took on the way to Mount Forest to take effect? Is it possible that she is clear on the first part of the assault but doesn't really remember the end very well because they had kicked in? Then again, she seems to remember what they did after they left the site. hmmm I'm finding this very strange.
    ♥♥♥ In Memory of Tori ♥♥♥

  4. #4
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    myzzy: I put in blue in the OP what has been covered so far

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxfactor View Post
    Just a question for anyone who knows, how long would it have taken for the "handful of percocets" she took on the way to Mount Forest to take effect? Is it possible that she is clear on the first part of the assault but doesn't really remember the end very well because they had kicked in? Then again, she seems to remember what they did after they left the site. hmmm I'm finding this very strange.

    I take percocets for pain and 1/2 - 1 pill starts to work in about 30 mins and within 2 hours the effects are wearing off on me.. Different tolerance levels for different people, so if she is taking numerous pills often then her tolerance level would be higher and could effect how long it takes, how many she would need to feel the effects and how soon it wears off ( Personal Opinion Only )
    My opinion is MINE!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nursebeeme View Post
    myzzy: I put in blue in the OP what has been covered so far
    Doh I totally missed it, thinking it was a general statement lol . Sorry goes back to corner and rereads Thank you
    My opinion is MINE!

  7. #7
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    JMO I think TLM is being truthful....now. When she stated that she lied as she did not want MR to (rape) do this to any other child, therefore back in May she told Smyth that MR killed VS. Now that she is under oath, her truth is coming out. I feel that MR had it planned to manipulate TLM into helping him kidnap a child. She went along with what the man of her dreams was asking of her, she would do anything to please him. I believe her rage would have been building during the rape. I think MR got the garbage bags out and covered her. After the rape I think MR very easily manipulated her again and said we cant let her go. In a round about way conviced TLM that someone needed to kill her and her rage blew and she killed her. JMO
    Last edited by flipflop; 03-16-2012 at 05:15 PM.

  8. #8
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    So she gave up MR because she was worried he would rape other kids?? He was out for 6 weeks while she was in. Not believing it.

    She prepped the death area with garbage bags first and there was no blood splatter yet she SAVAGELY murdered that little girl spontaneously? Not believing it. JMO

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by myzzy View Post
    I take percocets for pain and 1/2 - 1 pill starts to work in about 30 mins and within 2 hours the effects are wearing off on me.. Different tolerance levels for different people, so if she is taking numerous pills often then her tolerance level would be higher and could effect how long it takes, how many she would need to feel the effects and how soon it wears off ( Personal Opinion Only )
    Also she could have crushed/snorted them which would have an almost instantaneous effect which would not last very long, she'd have to keep snorting them to be really screwed up, but then she also had the effects of Oxies in her did she not?.
    Though I fall, I fall like a star, streaming splendour through the sky.
    Justice has not failed Victoria... Rest in peace Angel.

    Princess on Earth, Angel in Heaven


    “If two points are destined to touch, the universe will always find a way to make the connection. Even when all hope seems lost, certain ties cannot be broken. They define who we are — and who we can become. Across space, across time, even across paths we cannot predict.” -Touch

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by matou View Post
    So she gave up MR because she was worried he would rape other kids?? He was out for 6 weeks while she was in. Not believing it.

    She prepped the death area with garbage bags first and there was no blood splatter yet she SAVAGELY murdered that little girl spontaneously? Not believing it. JMO
    What was the date of when she first admitted her involvement in the case???


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    What was the date of when she first admitted her involvement in the case???
    I think it was the date of her arrest, May 19th, 2009.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/agreed-st...c-stafford.pdf

  12. #12
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    It is my honest belief and opinion MR had already killed Tori before he pulled her from the car. I hate to be so graphic but the fact that Tori was bleeding due to the sexual assault inflicted by MR, and the pain Tori would have endured would cause this sweet baby to go into shock. Shock can cause death if medical intervention is not sought or treated properly. Along with the shock Tori was bleeding internally. These two factors alone would certainly cause death. So even if the hammer wasn't swung, the inevitable truth is Tori would have died anyhow all because of what MR did to her in his car. He is the one guilty moreso of murder in MHO. If they would have drove off without using the hammer and just left her under the pine trees, (if she wasn't already deceased) she would have slowly and painfully died. Going back to Tori's motionless body on the ground. Why would MR throw Tori outside the car, on the ground? JMHO is because he was "done" with her, she was dead or near death. He wasn't getting any reaction from her anymore, the screaming, fighting, crying out in pain and therefore he wasn't being "turned on".

    If TLM was in a rage as she stated, she certainly would not have taken the time to cover Tori's head in garbage bags, this seems far fetched. Someone acting in a rage does not rationalize that way. All my theory and my honest opinion. MR is a <Mod Snip>and sought out TLM the loser ow life who he knew he could manipulate to go along with his perverse plans. As per TLM claim, as to what MR said to her, "you would do anything for a little bit of love eh"

    Understanding Shock. Shock is a life-threatening medical condition and is a medical emergency. If shock is suspected call 911 or get to an emergency department immediately.
    http://www.medicinenet.com/shock/article.htm#facts

    When does hemorrhagic shock result in death?
    http://www.sharecare.com/question/wh...k-result-death
    Last edited by imamaze; 03-16-2012 at 06:43 PM. Reason: no name calling please
    Rest in peace Tori, Tim and Jeremy.

    "On May 6th, the devil led the vilest form of evil down my driveway and it smiled at me before it took Tim away." Good always triumphs over evil. Keep the faith, justice will prevail. .

  13. #13
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    I think it's a good thing the Bonnie and Clyde both broke down crying in court today at the same time. Shows to the jury they were a team. JMO

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by matou View Post
    I think it was the date of her arrest, May 19th, 2009.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/agreed-st...c-stafford.pdf
    So from April 8th until May 19th she denied any involvement in the case, therefore she would never have ratted MR out during this time. Also during this time MR was visiting her at the detention center and sweet talking her to keep her mouth shut. Therefore, she was still head over heals for him and would still do anything to keep him.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by swedie View Post
    It is my honest belief and opinion MR had already killed Tori before he pulled her from the car. I hate to be so graphic but the fact that Tori was bleeding due to the sexual assault inflicted by MR, and the pain Tori would have endured would cause this sweet baby to go into shock. Shock can cause death if medical intervention is not sought or treated properly. Along with the shock Tori was bleeding internally. These two factors alone would certainly cause death. So even if the hammer wasn't swung, the inevitable truth is Tori would have died anyhow all because of what MR did to her in his car. He is the one guilty moreso of murder in MHO. If they would have drove off without using the hammer and just left her under the pine trees, (if she wasn't already deceased) she would have slowly and painfully died. Going back to Tori's motionless body on the ground. Why would MR throw Tori outside the car, on the ground? JMHO is because he was "done" with her, she was dead or near death. He wasn't getting any reaction from her anymore, the screaming, fighting, crying out in pain and therefore he wasn't being "turned on".

    If TLM was in a rage as she stated, she certainly would not have taken the time to cover Tori's head in garbage bags, this seems far fetched. Someone acting in a rage does not rationalize that way. All my theory and my honest opinion. MR is a <modsnip> and sought out TLM the loser ow life who he knew he could manipulate to go along with his perverse plans. As per TLM claim, as to what MR said to her, "you would do anything for a little bit of love eh"

    Understanding Shock. Shock is a life-threatening medical condition and is a medical emergency. If shock is suspected call 911 or get to an emergency department immediately.
    http://www.medicinenet.com/shock/article.htm#facts

    When does hemorrhagic shock result in death?
    http://www.sharecare.com/question/wh...k-result-death
    A Medical Examiner is expected to testify stating that the cause of death was blunt force trauma to the skull/brain, even though she also suffered lacerations to her liver that were severe enough to cause death on their own.
    Last edited by Salem; 03-16-2012 at 08:42 PM.

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