jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

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nursebeeme

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New thread for the very long break in testimony... remember we can only discuss testimony thus far in the case and remember the rules

:tos:


when posting an opinion please remember to use your :moo: or :twocents: or just IMO or JMO will do nicely.

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the crown will present its case in chapters:

Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.

An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.

Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."

"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html


reposting Salem's warning from last week:

Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.

Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.

We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.

Thank you,

Salem
 
Has anyone created a working timeline for the trial of events testified so far that i missed?
 
Just a question for anyone who knows, how long would it have taken for the "handful of percocets" she took on the way to Mount Forest to take effect? Is it possible that she is clear on the first part of the assault but doesn't really remember the end very well because they had kicked in? Then again, she seems to remember what they did after they left the site. hmmm I'm finding this very strange.:moo:
 
myzzy: I put in blue in the OP what has been covered so far
 
Just a question for anyone who knows, how long would it have taken for the "handful of percocets" she took on the way to Mount Forest to take effect? Is it possible that she is clear on the first part of the assault but doesn't really remember the end very well because they had kicked in? Then again, she seems to remember what they did after they left the site. hmmm I'm finding this very strange.:moo:


I take percocets for pain and 1/2 - 1 pill starts to work in about 30 mins and within 2 hours the effects are wearing off on me.. Different tolerance levels for different people, so if she is taking numerous pills often then her tolerance level would be higher and could effect how long it takes, how many she would need to feel the effects and how soon it wears off ( Personal Opinion Only )
 
JMO I think TLM is being truthful....now. When she stated that she lied as she did not want MR to (rape) do this to any other child, therefore back in May she told Smyth that MR killed VS. Now that she is under oath, her truth is coming out. I feel that MR had it planned to manipulate TLM into helping him kidnap a child. She went along with what the man of her dreams was asking of her, she would do anything to please him. I believe her rage would have been building during the rape. I think MR got the garbage bags out and covered her. After the rape I think MR very easily manipulated her again and said we cant let her go. In a round about way conviced TLM that someone needed to kill her and her rage blew and she killed her. JMO
 
So she gave up MR because she was worried he would rape other kids?? He was out for 6 weeks while she was in. Not believing it.

She prepped the death area with garbage bags first and there was no blood splatter yet she SAVAGELY murdered that little girl spontaneously? Not believing it. JMO
 
I take percocets for pain and 1/2 - 1 pill starts to work in about 30 mins and within 2 hours the effects are wearing off on me.. Different tolerance levels for different people, so if she is taking numerous pills often then her tolerance level would be higher and could effect how long it takes, how many she would need to feel the effects and how soon it wears off ( Personal Opinion Only )

Also she could have crushed/snorted them which would have an almost instantaneous effect which would not last very long, she'd have to keep snorting them to be really screwed up, but then she also had the effects of Oxies in her did she not?.
 
So she gave up MR because she was worried he would rape other kids?? He was out for 6 weeks while she was in. Not believing it.

She prepped the death area with garbage bags first and there was no blood splatter yet she SAVAGELY murdered that little girl spontaneously? Not believing it. JMO

What was the date of when she first admitted her involvement in the case???
 
It is my honest belief and opinion MR had already killed Tori before he pulled her from the car. I hate to be so graphic but the fact that Tori was bleeding due to the sexual assault inflicted by MR, and the pain Tori would have endured would cause this sweet baby to go into shock. Shock can cause death if medical intervention is not sought or treated properly. Along with the shock Tori was bleeding internally. These two factors alone would certainly cause death. So even if the hammer wasn't swung, the inevitable truth is Tori would have died anyhow all because of what MR did to her in his car. He is the one guilty moreso of murder in MHO. If they would have drove off without using the hammer and just left her under the pine trees, (if she wasn't already deceased) she would have slowly and painfully died. Going back to Tori's motionless body on the ground. Why would MR throw Tori outside the car, on the ground? JMHO is because he was "done" with her, she was dead or near death. He wasn't getting any reaction from her anymore, the screaming, fighting, crying out in pain and therefore he wasn't being "turned on".

If TLM was in a rage as she stated, she certainly would not have taken the time to cover Tori's head in garbage bags, this seems far fetched. Someone acting in a rage does not rationalize that way. All my theory and my honest opinion. MR is a <Mod Snip>and sought out TLM the loser ow life who he knew he could manipulate to go along with his perverse plans. As per TLM claim, as to what MR said to her, "you would do anything for a little bit of love eh":moo:

Understanding Shock. Shock is a life-threatening medical condition and is a medical emergency. If shock is suspected call 911 or get to an emergency department immediately.
http://www.medicinenet.com/shock/article.htm#facts

When does hemorrhagic shock result in death?
http://www.sharecare.com/question/when-hemorrhagic-shock-result-death
 
I think it's a good thing the Bonnie and Clyde both broke down crying in court today at the same time. Shows to the jury they were a team. JMO
 

So from April 8th until May 19th she denied any involvement in the case, therefore she would never have ratted MR out during this time. Also during this time MR was visiting her at the detention center and sweet talking her to keep her mouth shut. Therefore, she was still head over heals for him and would still do anything to keep him.
 
It is my honest belief and opinion MR had already killed Tori before he pulled her from the car. I hate to be so graphic but the fact that Tori was bleeding due to the sexual assault inflicted by MR, and the pain Tori would have endured would cause this sweet baby to go into shock. Shock can cause death if medical intervention is not sought or treated properly. Along with the shock Tori was bleeding internally. These two factors alone would certainly cause death. So even if the hammer wasn't swung, the inevitable truth is Tori would have died anyhow all because of what MR did to her in his car. He is the one guilty moreso of murder in MHO. If they would have drove off without using the hammer and just left her under the pine trees, (if she wasn't already deceased) she would have slowly and painfully died. Going back to Tori's motionless body on the ground. Why would MR throw Tori outside the car, on the ground? JMHO is because he was "done" with her, she was dead or near death. He wasn't getting any reaction from her anymore, the screaming, fighting, crying out in pain and therefore he wasn't being "turned on".

If TLM was in a rage as she stated, she certainly would not have taken the time to cover Tori's head in garbage bags, this seems far fetched. Someone acting in a rage does not rationalize that way. All my theory and my honest opinion. MR is a <modsnip> and sought out TLM the loser ow life who he knew he could manipulate to go along with his perverse plans. As per TLM claim, as to what MR said to her, "you would do anything for a little bit of love eh":moo:

Understanding Shock. Shock is a life-threatening medical condition and is a medical emergency. If shock is suspected call 911 or get to an emergency department immediately.
http://www.medicinenet.com/shock/article.htm#facts

When does hemorrhagic shock result in death?
http://www.sharecare.com/question/when-hemorrhagic-shock-result-death

A Medical Examiner is expected to testify stating that the cause of death was blunt force trauma to the skull/brain, even though she also suffered lacerations to her liver that were severe enough to cause death on their own.
 
It is my honest belief and opinion MR had already killed Tori before he pulled her from the car. I hate to be so graphic but the fact that Tori was bleeding due to the sexual assault inflicted by MR, and the pain Tori would have endured would cause this sweet baby to go into shock. Shock can cause death if medical intervention is not sought or treated properly. Along with the shock Tori was bleeding internally. These two factors alone would certainly cause death. So even if the hammer wasn't swung, the inevitable truth is Tori would have died anyhow all because of what MR did to her in his car. He is the one guilty moreso of murder in MHO. If they would have drove off without using the hammer and just left her under the pine trees, (if she wasn't already deceased) she would have slowly and painfully died. Going back to Tori's motionless body on the ground. Why would MR throw Tori outside the car, on the ground? JMHO is because he was "done" with her, she was dead or near death. He wasn't getting any reaction from her anymore, the screaming, fighting, crying out in pain and therefore he wasn't being "turned on".

If TLM was in a rage as she stated, she certainly would not have taken the time to cover Tori's head in garbage bags, this seems far fetched. Someone acting in a rage does not rationalize that way. All my theory and my honest opinion. MR is a <modsnip> and sought out TLM the loser ow life who he knew he could manipulate to go along with his perverse plans. As per TLM claim, as to what MR said to her, "you would do anything for a little bit of love eh":moo:

Understanding Shock. Shock is a life-threatening medical condition and is a medical emergency. If shock is suspected call 911 or get to an emergency department immediately.
http://www.medicinenet.com/shock/article.htm#facts

When does hemorrhagic shock result in death?
http://www.sharecare.com/question/when-hemorrhagic-shock-result-death



But wouldn't they have known what actually killed her when they did the autopsy? They say that Tori died of 'multiple blunt trauma to the head' but that 'the broken ribs resulting in the lacerated liver would have killed her on their own' however not that that killed her.

JMO

I do however, agree that for someone who was in a rage, I don't know how she could have been so rational to think of putting garbage bags on her head to minimize the blood spatter as she calls it. I think perhaps MR did that and then told her to kill her. I think they both killed hit her, actually, but she's saying she was the only one that did.
 
The prepping necessary to ensure there was no blood splatter reminds me of something from a movie. JMO
 
The prepping necessary to ensure there was no blood splatter reminds me of something from a movie. JMO

That's what I was saying yesterday, alot of her testimony feels made up, she uses words one would only use in books. i.e. instead of saying 'i don't' she says 'i do not', etc and the thing she said about 'being instructed to do so' people don't talk like that irl, it's almost like she's reading from a script in her head.
 
That's what I was saying yesterday, alot of her testimony feels made up, she uses words one would only use in books. i.e. instead of saying 'i don't' she says 'i do not', etc and the thing she said about 'being instructed to do so' people don't talk like that irl, it's almost like she's reading from a script in her head.

I read her script (that TLM and MR supposedly made up) from the evidence pics. She does use contractions quite a bit...didn't, don't etc.

Where are you hearing or reading this?.
 
I read her script from the evidence pics. She does use contractions quite a bit...didn't, don't etc.

Where are you hearing or reading this?.

In her testimony from court from recent days. Not the May 24th confession.

I'm saying in her testimony she isn't using contractions, that's why it sounds like she's reading from a script.
 
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