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Thread: trial thread: 3/27/2012

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    (BBM)

    I'm not saying I believe that the motive was a drug debt, but if it was, it didn't necessarily have to be for revenge. It could equally have been for ransom - a ransom that could not be collected for one reason or another. Say, Tori's mother couldn't be reached via phone or text. The murder could have become necessary because Tori was making a fuss, TLM got impatient, lost her temper, and was no longer willing to wait to get hold of TM. She would have two choices - (1) drive around aimlessly for several more hours with a restless, crying child in the car, or (2) just put an end to the whole thing. TLM does not strike me as the patient type and her anger issues (to put it mildly) are well-established.

    JMO
    Respectfully
    When is any murder necessary? It's a good think it's not the norm for people to murder crying, screaming children. Lord help us all. JMO
    RIP Tim. Justice will prevail

    Victoria is the Latin word for 'victory' or 'conquer'. RIP sweet Tori.

    May 15/12, Michael Rafferty guilty; 25 years with no chance of parole. R.I.H. P.O.S.

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  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsoul2 View Post
    They would have checked her out throughly and known why he went there, sure he's not the only person she sells to
    Not unless they had reason to suspect that MR and TLM were involved. Which I'm sure MR thought he had covered. But if they had asked on a random house check then that alibi would have panned out. No need for LE to investigate why he was visiting his friend. Without the video, neither of them would have ever been on the radar IMO.

    Because TM would never have suspected TLM without that video. Because there was no drug debt to her IMO.

    MOO

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  5. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alethea Dice View Post
    I believe her house is still about 1 hour away from the crime scene.
    Yes but how close is it to a car wash?

    MOO

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  7. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    Another question: Why didn't BA contact LE immediately after hearing of MTR's arrest? She knew he'd been right there in Guelph on the day of the abduction, knew he appeared stressed in subsequent visits, so why not? Surely, a small-time dealer in Percs would put finding that child ahead of fear of trafficking charges. And yet, she couldn't have. If she had, TLM wouldn't have had to help LE try to find her house.

    I'm not implying anything more here than that this case is full of one reprehensible player after another.



    JMO
    Was there something in the tweets that suggested that she didn't? I must have missed that.

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  9. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    If anyone had tried to get a hold of TM that day, LE would have known about it. It would be a part of her phone records. I don't think we're going to hear about that.
    Whose phone records? TM's? I thought I heard that she didn't have her cell that day - that it was in the pawn shop. Could be wrong, but that's how I remember it. I don't think TLM had a phone at all; MTR's phone would have had to have been used. Presumably, we'll find out who he called, or tried to call, on April 8.

    And the drug debt rumour that was floating around was for at least a 5 figure amount. MR himself stated to BA that he heard that TM (not JG) had a large drug debt. I don't think that two people living in squalor were selling drugs to one person in those amounts. And letting the debt run up to a 5 figure amount before cutting off her supply and kidnapping her child for ransom.

    MOO
    Oh, I never believed that ridiculous 5 figure amount for the same reason you wrote. I did believe that it could have been a much lower amount, but now I'm just not sure. Just putting an alternate theory out there.

    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by swedie View Post
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    When is any murder necessary? It's a good think it's not the norm for people to murder crying, screaming children. Lord help us all. JMO
    I don't think Antiquegirl was implying that at all.....just attempting to think like TLM may have

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  13. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    Yes but how close is it to a car wash?

    MOO
    We don't know. TLM couldn't find the car wash.
    The truth does not cease to exist because it is ignored. ~ Aldous Huxley

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  15. #208
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    The jury is returning. Almost ready to resume.

    Michael Carnegie, a crown lawyer, has called Identification Comstable Gary Scoyne. He testified earlier in the trial.

    Crown calls identification officer Constable Gary Scoyne to the stand for the 2nd time. Will appear many times

    RaffertyLFP: Crown says Scoyne's testimony will finish off the "Guelph chapter" of the prosecution's case

    RaffertyLFP: Scoyne will go through a series of photos of of the Home Depot area and other sites in Guelph
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  17. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsoul2 View Post
    They would have checked her out throughly and known why he went there, sure he's not the only person she sells to
    And probably not the only dealer he buys from? Why drive all the way to BA's house when there are probably lots of dealers in Woodstock?

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  19. #210
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    RaffertyLFP: Identification officer Gary Scoyne taking the stand [via Twitter]



    So cross of the other officer is done? He asked if TLM looked upset and that's it?
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

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  21. #211
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    @AM980_Court
    • The jury is returning. Almost ready to resume.

    @AM980_Court

    • Michael Carnegie, a crown lawyer, has called Identification Constable Gary Scoyne. He testified earlier in the trial.

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  23. #212
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    ‏ @AM980_Court
    • Carnegie tells Justice Heeney and the jury this will wrap up the Guelph chapter of their case.

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  25. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    Was there something in the tweets that suggested that she didn't? I must have missed that.
    No, but TLM had to help LE find her house during the drive-by searches in Guelph and surrounding areas. If BA had called in her connection after MTR was arrested, this wouldn't have been necessary; LE would have had her name and address as soon as she called.

    Now Det. Const. Darmon is describing photos of areas in Guelph, including the home McClintic says Rafferty stopped at on the day Tori disappeared so he could purchase drugs. The officer tells the court officers had to drive around Guelph with McClintic "for a little while" until they located the home.
    by Jon Hembrey March 23 at 3:09 PM
    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  27. #214
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    @RaffertyLFP
    • Scoyne will go through a series of photos of of the Home Depot area and other sites in Guelph

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  29. #215
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    what is raffertys demeaner like today?

    Rafferty appears somewhat tired today. He is still pretty emotionless while the witnesses are on the stand

    Carnegie tells Justice Heeney and the jury this will wrap up the Guelph chapter of their case.

    RaffertyLFP: Scoyne points where exterior security camera is located at Home Depot in Guelph

    Scoyne has a slide show. Has an overhead shot of the Home Depot, as well as exterior shots. Shows security camera location.
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  31. #216
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    As BA has known MR for a long time, used to date him, and had maintained regular contact with him..............and she said they shared kind of a "girl talk" relationship, I am surprised the Crown did not ask questions about MR's sexual preferences, habits, or interests.

    Sometimes I feel like there is more left un-said in this trial than is being said.

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  33. #217
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    ‏ @RaffertyLFP
    • Scoyne points where exterior security camera is located at Home Depot in Guelph

    @AM980_Court

    • Scoyne has a slide show. Has an overhead shot of the Home Depot, as well as exterior shots. Shows security camera location.

  34. #218
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    Const. Scoyne to help lay out the 'Guelph scene' with photos. Just as he did for the "Woodstock scene".

    Scoyne points where exterior security camera is located at Home Depot in Guelph

    Marked photo shows the jury spots the suspect car stopped in the parking lot.
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  36. #219
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    @AM980_Court
    • Marked photo shows the jury spots the suspect car stopped in the parking lot.

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  38. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    I don't think TLM had a phone at all; MTR's phone would have had to have been used. Presumably, we'll find out who he called, or tried to call, on April 8.
    <rsbm>

    IIRC, there was something TLM had texted to a friend that she didn't have any cell time on her phone.

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  40. #221
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    @AM980_Court
    • Now pointing out the video cameras in the Guelph Petro Canada/Tim Horton's.

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  42. #222
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    RaffertyLFP: Scoyne points out video cameras in photo of gasbar/store near Home Depot

    Now pointing out the video cameras in the Guelph Petro Canada/Tim Horton's.

    Court sees still image from video from inside of store - appears to be Rafferty

    Showing the jury still shots from the security cameras, with a man who lookin like Rafferty walking towards the ATM.
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  44. #223
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    @AM980_Court
    • Showing the jury still shots from the security cameras, with a man who lookin like Rafferty walking towards the ATM.

  45. #224
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    @RaffertyLFP
    • Court sees still image from video from inside of store - appears to be Rafferty

  46. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldsoul2 View Post
    Who stops for drugs, money, home depot, tea etc in the middle of an abduction? Don't think he's too much of a planner
    These actions suggest the defence is plausible.

    If MR really had planned the abduction:

    (1) He would have already had the garbage bags and hammer with him. To suggest he made TLM get these items to cover for himself is too risky. If he was that smart he would have known he would be caught on tape.
    (2) He would not have stopped for drugs.
    (3) He would not have gone to Tim Horton's and risk getting caught.

    Now, if TLM had taken Tori with her and told MR that she was babysitting Tori perhaps and/or did not give MR any intentions of what SHE planned, then:

    (1) She would have stopped to get tea at Tim Horton's.
    (2) She would be okay with MR stopping to get drugs.
    (3) She could have lied to MR about Home Depot and said she had to pick something up.

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