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  1. #1
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    17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #6

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  2. #2
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    we will never know who struck the first blow. Mr Zimmerman stalked and accosted Mr Martin, it is not surprising to me if Mr Martin felt fear at Mr Zimmerman's actions, especially with the stranger who was following him all of the sudden approaching him on foot. That poor young man must've been fighting for his life, sadly he lost his life. Mr Zimmerman had the choice to stay in his car and await the LE he had called on this innocent stanger, Mr Martin didn't have that choice. I would have fought for my life when accosted by a stranger, wouldn't you?
    brought this over from last threazd because I am interested in many ideas on it. Why is it self defense for Mr Zimmerman to shoot and kill, but not self defense for Mr Martin to fight back against a stranger who has been following him and accosted him?
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  3. #3
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    Seems simple to me:

    Stand your Ground
    Neighborhood Watch
    Self Defense

    All exactly the opposite of what Mr. Zimmerman was doing figuratively and physically.

    How can "self-defense" be argued when GZ was on the offense and in active pursuit?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
    we will never know who struck the first blow. Mr Zimmerman stalked and accosted Mr Martin, it is not surprising to me if Mr Martin felt fear at Mr Zimmerman's actions, especially with the stranger who was following him all of the sudden approaching him on foot. That poor young man must've been fighting for his life, sadly he lost his life. Mr Zimmerman had the choice to stay in his car and await the LE he had called on this innocent stanger, Mr Martin didn't have that choice. I would have fought for my life when accosted by a stranger, wouldn't you?
    brought this over from last threazd because I am interested in many ideas on it. Why is it self defense for Mr Zimmerman to shoot and kill, but not self defense for Mr Martin to fight back against a stranger who has been following him and accosted him?
    I think TM could have run away if he wanted to. I don't think GZ started the fight, that wouldn't make sense considering he had a gun...why risk it? His account makes the most sense, that TM jumped him.
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  5. #5
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    I wonder if Zimmerman was wearing a hoodie?

  6. #6
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    I completely agree that GZ should have stayed in his car. I think (only speculation) that he did frighten TM which is a perfectly normal response to someone following you. Running away (or walking fast) and hiding under porches could easily be the behavior of a scared, unarmed kid who is being followed by an adult. That said, it looks like the evidence supports GZ's story. And, unfortunately, the law allows that he could legally shot an innocent 17-year old to death. And, IMO, that's unbelievable and unjust.

    However, one part of GZ's story doesn't add up. And I'm relying on recollection so I may have it wrong. But he claimed that when he got out of his car to check the street sign (to see what street he was on), TM jumped him. But someone put up a satellite map yesterday and it appears that TM was shot behind the townhouses, not on the street. So how did GZ get from the street (street signs are usually on street corners, not behind townhouses) to behind the townhomes? It doesn't add up, unless TM jumped him and then ran and GZ followed.

    If anyone has newer information, or if my information is inaccurate, any clarification is welcome.
    all my comments are just my opinion. jmho. moo. etc. etc.

  7. #7
    rossva's Avatar
    rossva is offline George Zimmerman: Innocent until proven guilty.
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    Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waistband I removed a black Kel Tec 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster


    http://www.propublica.org/documents/...-police-report




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  8. #8
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    I still can't understand why the cops did not ask Zimmerman to submit to an alcohol or blood test. They heard his words slurring on that 911 tape.

  9. #9
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    Wise Old Owl is offline Retired WS Staff & Founding member of AFKBPOFPOPL
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    If there was an altercation - which we all know from the witnesses. GZ and Trayvon were in close physical contact. Where was GZ when he shot? If still in such close physical contact than GZ would have had spatter on him. That spatter would go a very long way at figuring out who was what, where and how close when the shot was fired.

    Yet, SPD thought nothing of it. No mention of GZ shirt in the "partial" report we have. No mention of taking GZ's shirt into evidence (although we do have the gun taken as evidence). Why wouldn't they do that? Certainly it would be quite obvious that GZ had blood all over his shirt. What did he tell LE? Its was from his nose? And probably some was - but that's for the forensics lab to investigate.

    Then there's this that I'm also wondering. Where is the slug and the casing? Was the bullet retrieved from Trayvon? If not, and it was a through and through shot - then did LE go out and find where it ended up? I don't know much about guns - so I don't know if a tek 9 will expell a casing afterward - but it they do - then did LE find it? That would tell them where GZ was standing when he fired and would be important info - if that type of gun does that.

    Also, we know nothing about Trayvon's body or clothes. Did he have evidence on his knuckles that he could have punched GZ? Maybe even GZ's blood on his hand from punching? If he was truly attacking him - punching several times - I'm sure there would be evidence of that on his hands.

    I just wish they would release a little bit - something. With all this silence, it tells me they don't have anything to back up with they did.


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    JMHO
    Last edited by Wise Old Owl; 03-26-2012 at 11:45 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gxm View Post
    I completely agree that GZ should have stayed in his car. I think (only speculation) that he did frighten TM which is a perfectly normal response to someone following you. Running away (or walking fast) and hiding under porches could easily be the behavior of a scared, unarmed kid who is being followed by an adult. That said, it looks like the evidence supports GZ's story. And, unfortunately, the law allows that he could legally shot an innocent 17-year old to death. And, IMO, that's unbelievable and unjust.
    .
    If this is what happened, unfortunately you could very well be right. There is the 911 tapes that at least show more of the whole story (more, NOT all) and it at least shows GZ having the provoking aggressor behavior first...behavior that would not have happened had GZ just listened to dispatch. It's not much to build on but an aggressive enough prosecutor (should this go to trial ever) could definitely build on that and hunt for more evidence. Will it happen? Hard to say. At least that's what i see.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gxm View Post
    I completely agree that GZ should have stayed in his car. I think (only speculation) that he did frighten TM which is a perfectly normal response to someone following you. Running away (or walking fast) and hiding under porches could easily be the behavior of a scared, unarmed kid who is being followed by an adult. That said, it looks like the evidence supports GZ's story. And, unfortunately, the law allows that he could legally shot an innocent 17-year old to death. And, IMO, that's unbelievable and unjust.

    However, one part of GZ's story doesn't add up. And I'm relying on recollection so I may have it wrong. But he claimed that when he got out of his car to check the street sign (to see what street he was on), TM jumped him. But someone put up a satellite map yesterday and it appears that TM was shot behind the townhouses, not on the street. So how did GZ get from the street (street signs are usually on street corners, not behind townhouses) to behind the townhomes? It doesn't add up, unless TM jumped him and then ran and GZ followed.

    If anyone has newer information, or if my information is inaccurate, any clarification is welcome.
    http://marinadedave.com/ - there is a picture with drawing of where GZ's pick up was and where the shooting took place - http://transferstation.files.wordpre...-overhead1.jpg - imo, TM did not jump GZ near his vehicle.

  12. #12
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    Wise Old Owl is offline Retired WS Staff & Founding member of AFKBPOFPOPL
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    oooooo - This new prosecutor was asked about the Grand Jury and will we have to wait for an arrest until then? She said that Wolfinger was the prosecutor that ordered the Grand Jury and that her and her prosecutors are not held to that Grand Jury and that she has never convened a Grand Jury for a homicide case. A Grand Jury is something she will have to look at and ask for, if she needs it.

    She does not know where GZ is right now.




    JMHO

  13. #13
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    With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

    That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

    Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.

    In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

    Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.

    (snip)

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein View Post
    I think TM could have run away if he wanted to. I don't think GZ started the fight, that wouldn't make sense considering he had a gun...why risk it? His account makes the most sense, that TM jumped him.
    by that reasoning he would've stayed in his vehicle and waited for LE to arrive.

    By getting out of his car he showed me he wanted to be the big man when LE arrived, maybe standing over a cowering bad guy. Mr Zimmerman might've wanted to show LE that he was thier equal by apprehending Mr Martin. This would've backfired badly if Mr Martin tried to defend himself. When Mr Martin refused to blindly obey and/or cower properly Mr Zimmerman lost control and in the ensuing fight lose his reason as well. In frustration and anger at Mr Martin's lack of respect for and lack of recognition of Mr Zimmermna's self-assumed authority, Mr Zimmerman shot him.

    the above is my opinion of what happened.
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  15. #15
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    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

    That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

    That is why he was not arrested.
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