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  1. #1
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    17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

    Please continue here.
    Remember the rules: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159[/ame]
    Remember the "ignore" feature on your profile page.
    Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.
    Please clearly state when it is your opinion. If you are making an inference please clearly outline and link the facts and evidence that have led you to form that inference. Wild speculation about any case player has no place here.
    Please PM a mod with any questions or concerns and alert any TOS violations or offensive posts.
    And finally, PLEASE address one another respectfully. Last reminder.

    We will no longer allow discussion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or the Black Panther protest(s). There are way too many and timeouts to continue this discussion. We will allow MSM links to such protests, but no discussion.
    We need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.
    Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link or a link from main stream media (MSM).


    Thread #1
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    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166793"]Thread #5[/ame]
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    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167219"]Thread #9[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167312"]Thread #10[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167357"]Thread #11[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167420"]Thread #12[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167490"]Thread #13[/ame]

    Clairfication on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue.
    I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:
    At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.
    Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information
    Hope that helps clear this up.
    Please bump as needed.

    Just a reminder:
    WS does not permit links that request or suggest sending donations without the clear permission of the owners . This is to protect our members and for no other reason.
    __________________

    We are not allowing discussion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the Black Panthers or any of the other possible protests.
    Blogs and Twitters are disallowed unless its a WS known (allowed) blogger and twitter account or MSM, so they will be very limited.
    MSM links to the protests will be allowed in the media threads but no discussion.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Originally Posted by OneLove True. And this is why people should not formulate their opinions based on emotion, conjecture, and bias. Remaining neutral until facts are revealed and allow the true puzzle to be filled in saves one a LOT of wear and tear on the adrenals, lol.

    RIGHT ON
    I am getting tired of trying to say exactly
    What you are saying. so thank you
    staying on this thread is messing up my day.
    But something keeps on pulling me back here.
    I canít stand a Witch hunt on GZ.
    I canít stand that the law betrayed TM
    My heart goes out to both sides.

    But I only know one thing for sure.
    To the dead we owe the truth.
    To the living we owe peace.
    Women are Angels.
    And when someone breaks our wings,
    we simply continue to fly... on a broomstick.

    We're flexible like that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    638
    Let's get the big picture here. If Zimmerman had not intercepted Martin, Martin would have gone home, watched a ballgame and enjoyed a snack with his brother. He was preparing for college and the field of aviation. This was his plan. He was not committing a crime. He was only guilty of wearing clothes that are now the popular style with millions of kids around the world from all classes. Zimmerman was in error singling out this kid in the first place. That's the big picture.
    Also, this fable about Martin carrying out an ambush and attack while on the phone does not add up. How can someone attack you while on the phone?

  4. #4
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    Sep 2009
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    979
    quick question. Does anyone know how long gz lived in this community?

  5. #5
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    East Tennessee
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    43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.
    Type: TEL
    Subject: Disturbance
    Report: Children “running and playing in the street”


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...plete-log.html

    I feel sorry for dispatchers when people are reporting kids on a public street as a possible crime. I think that's abuse of 911. All taxpayers own the street, and that's part of the problem I have with the Trayvon case. Zimmerman could have no way of knowing what Trayvon was thinking or doing, since he wasn't a mind reader and didn't know the boy. Projecting thoughts onto a target as if that is reality is wrong and all in his mind.

    George Zimmerman was not in his "castle" on the street, and owning a gun didn't make him a free lance cop. Even if someone was beating him or verbally threatening him, that doesn't mean he had just cause to point and shoot.

    Those last points are straight from the Florida Division of Licensing

    Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

    A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

    * Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
    * Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

    Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

    Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

    *snip*

    Q. What if I point my handgun at someone but don't use it?

    A. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.
    (example at link)

    Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?

    A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.

    *snip*

    Q. What if I see a crime being committed?

    A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

    Much More at Link: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/wea...f_defense.html
    Last edited by ThoughtFox; 04-01-2012 at 05:24 PM.

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

  6. #6
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    Jun 2008
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    424
    Quote Originally Posted by belle3 View Post
    quick question. Does anyone know how long gz lived in this community?
    IIRC, GZ & his wife moved to the Retreat at Twin Lakes complex, sometime in summer of 2009.
    Edit to add link: http://www.tampabay.com/news/humanin...cle1221799.ece
    "George Zimmerman, 28, moved into the Retreat in the summer of 2009 with his wife, Shellie."
    Last edited by w1df10wr; 04-01-2012 at 05:26 PM. Reason: found a link

  7. #7
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    Dec 2008
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    CT/NC
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    I keep seeing witch hunt:

    "The term "witch-hunt" since the 1930s has also been in use as a metaphor to refer to moral panics in general (frantic persecution of perceived enemies).' from the dictionary

    I'm not sure that is the right term. Trying to find out what happened that night and the motivations of both people involved is not a witch hunt on GZ. GZ has a past history of violent behavior and we have all read the articles and statements. Descriptions from those who know him. They are facts that give us an idea of where GZ was coming from that night. Statements made by his family, his attorney, his neighbors all figure in to give us an idea of what made him step out of the car and go after TM. There is a reason and we are getting close to the truth.

    And this is not directed at any one post but when I see a very defensive posting regarding GZ it leads me to believe some are feeling the sand shifting beneath their feet so in order to gain their balance they have to find wrong with the other person. We were asked to stick to the facts and I think that is what we are all trying to do so examining GZ is our only option when we do not know why he decided to follow TM.

    All I have heard from those who support GZ's story is that GZ was justified. But why? We have no proof that all of what GZ has said is true. Day-by-day we are seeing more and more to discredit him. GZ gave a statement and if what he said is not ringing true that calls for us to question everything he has claimed happened that night. It is what investigators do. No one has yet given him a free ticket. And there will be more to come.

    While two people can contribute to an event usually only one is the instigator. The initial part of the instigation was the call to LE by GZ. We have a right to know why he made that call. jmo

  8. #8
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    Dec 2008
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    Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by w1df10wr View Post
    IIRC, GZ & his wife moved to the Retreat at Twin Lakes complex, sometime in 2009.
    I believe the call about the landlord wanting to collect rent money and where Zimmerman says he lives in Twin Lakes happened in August 2009? The first call to 911 from Zimmerman in the Twin Lakes community happened in October 2009? So somewhere between August 2009 and October 2009?
    Justice for Trayvon

  9. #9
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    Dec 2008
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    Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    I keep seeing witch hunt:

    "The term "witch-hunt" since the 1930s has also been in use as a metaphor to refer to moral panics in general (frantic persecution of perceived enemies).' from the dictionary

    I'm not sure that is the right term. Trying to find out what happened that night and the motivations of both people involved is not a witch hunt on GZ. GZ has a past history of violent behavior and we have all read the articles and statements. Descriptions from those who know him. They are facts that give us an idea of where GZ was coming from that night. Statements made by his family, his attorney, his neighbors all figure in to give us an idea of what made him step out of the car and go after TM. There is a reason and we are getting close to the truth.

    And this is not directed at any one post but when I see a very defensive posting regarding GZ it leads me to believe some are feeling the sand shifting beneath their feet so in order to gain their balance they have to find wrong with the other person. We were asked to stick to the facts and I think that is what we are all trying to do so examining GZ is our only option when we do not know why he decided to follow TM.

    All I have heard from those who support GZ's story is that GZ was justified. But why? We have no proof that all of what GZ has said is true. Day-by-day we are seeing more and more to discredit him. GZ gave a statement and if what he said is not ringing true that calls for us to question everything he has claimed happened that night. It is what investigators do. No one has yet given him a free ticket. And there will be more to come.

    While two people can contribute to an event usually only one is the instigator. The initial part of the instigation was the call to LE by GZ. We have a right to know why he made that call. jmo
    I think the term "witch hunt" applies to GZ's actions in the city of Sanford since 2004 more than it applies to what is happening now?
    Justice for Trayvon

  10. #10
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    Dec 2008
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    Florida
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    I'm actually surprised that we haven't seen calls from Zimmerman on October 31st (of any year) complaining about "suspicious masked midgets" knocking at doors.

    MOO
    Justice for Trayvon


  11. #11
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by w1df10wr View Post
    IIRC, GZ & his wife moved to the Retreat at Twin Lakes complex, sometime in summer of 2009.
    Edit to add link: http://www.tampabay.com/news/humanin...cle1221799.ece
    "George Zimmerman, 28, moved into the Retreat in the summer of 2009 with his wife, Shellie."
    Thank you very much

  12. #12
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    Dana Point,CA
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    couple people have asked me for Zimmerman's 911 call history. here is the link for those that do not have it:

    http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...allHistory.pdf

  13. #13
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    Aug 2008
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    1,481
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacobite View Post
    Let's get the big picture here. If Zimmerman had not intercepted Martin, Martin would have gone home, watched a ballgame and enjoyed a snack with his brother. He was preparing for college and the field of aviation. This was his plan. He was not committing a crime. He was only guilty of wearing clothes that are now the popular style with millions of kids around the world from all classes. Zimmerman was in error singling out this kid in the first place. That's the big picture.
    Also, this fable about Martin carrying out an ambush and attack while on the phone does not add up. How can someone attack you while on the phone?
    I know we don't have all the evidence yet, but from what we do know it is inconceivable to me how anyone can make the case that TM attacked GZ.

  14. #14
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    Nov 2009
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    6,538
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacobite View Post
    Let's get the big picture here. If Zimmerman had not intercepted Martin, Martin would have gone home, watched a ballgame and enjoyed a snack with his brother. He was preparing for college and the field of aviation. This was his plan. He was not committing a crime. He was only guilty of wearing clothes that are now the popular style with millions of kids around the world from all classes. Zimmerman was in error singling out this kid in the first place. That's the big picture.
    Also, this fable about Martin carrying out an ambush and attack while on the phone does not add up. How can someone attack you while on the phone?
    Ear buds.

  15. #15
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
    I'm actually surprised that we haven't seen calls from Zimmerman on October 31st (of any year) complaining about "suspicious masked midgets" knocking at doors.

    MOO

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