17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

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imamaze

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Please continue here.
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Clairfication on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue.
I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:
At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.
Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information
Hope that helps clear this up.
Please bump as needed.

Just a reminder:
WS does not permit links that request or suggest sending donations without the clear permission of the owners . This is to protect our members and for no other reason.
__________________
 
You're correct - his conviction did occur in Florida. Apologies for the confusion.
BBM

I see what you did there, but he did not get convicted of anything. Florida does not expunge convictions, only charges. If he had a felony conviction in Florida, he would not have been able to get it expunged and therefore would not be able to purchase a firearm or have a concealed carry permit.

He was not convicted. All of the evidence points to him not having been convicted. Where's the evidence that says he was?
 
regarding the "probable cause" was the tea in his hand, pocket or bag? wasn't he cutting through yards? also, he was not a regular in the neighborhood and was out walking in the rain.

I would love to see this list of "regulars" or "residents" that everyone talks about.

No one has a right to follow someone just because they are new to a neighborhood. That's not really what Neighborhood Watch is for, imo.

We know there were people in the neighborhood who belonged there but were unknown to George Zimmerman and his wife. Trayvon is a good example because he was indeed living there and had every right to be there.

George didn't think Trayvon was a regular according to his own belief in who "belonged" and who didn't "belong." Clearly his isn't the only point of view in this case, it's just the only one on the 911 tapes. George had his own opinions about who was an in-group and who was an out-group in that community, and frankly I don't think it had anything to do with reality. :cow:
 
GVInjury1-1.png


Looks like a gash to me. Since it was on the head, I wonder why George Zimmerman did not go to the hospital.
 
They did not. The picture I posted last night clearly shows he was around 3-5 feet away from the sidewalk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Funny how things have a way of morphing from question to certainty overnight.

What do you think the yellow object partially obstructed by the fence is?
View attachment 21390

View attachment 21391

This was in the video from the link Bessie posted where the girlfriend makes the "back porch" comment.
BBM

Please provide a link establishing that whatever is under that yellow tarp is, in fact, the body of Trayvon or anyone else for that matter.

The father of a dead child told us where his son was found and in what position:

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

At the 1:33 mark:

"His feet were like on the sidewalk"

TMBody1.png


At the 1:39 mark:

"And his body was laid out this way" (motioning with both hands towards the grass on his right)

TMBody.png


Furthermore, if you'll notice, by counting the roofline bump outs over the porches/balconies and check any map of the development you so choose, you'll be able to determine that Tracy Martin is standing almost dead center of the back of that first building, NOT almost out to the building's end, like whatever is under that tarp that the post to which I'm responding suggests is so "clearly" a body.
 
FBI Questions People on Scene in Martin Case

SANFORD, Fla. -- FBI agents on Monday were questioning potential witnesses in the Trayvon Martin shooting, confirming to NBC News that the agency had begun a "parallel investigation" that focuses on whether the teen's civil rights were violated.

Agents are seeking information on George Zimmerman's background and whether he was racially motivated when he pursued Martin after calling a 911 police dispatcher about his presence in the community, an FBI official told NBC.

The agents were at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, where Martin was shot dead by Zimmerman, the gated community's neighborhood watch captain.
 
I would love to see this list of "regulars" or "residents" that everyone talks about.

No one has a right to follow someone just because they are new to a neighborhood. That's not really what Neighborhood Watch is for, imo.

We know there were people in the neighborhood who belonged there but were unknown to George Zimmerman and his wife. Trayvon is a good example because he was indeed living there and had every right to be there.

George didn't think Trayvon was a regular according to his own belief in who "belonged" and who didn't "belong." Clearly his isn't the only point of view in this case, it's just the only one on the 911 tapes. George had his own opinions about who was an in-group and who was an out-group in that community, and frankly I don't think it had anything to do with reality. :cow:

you don't have a right to follow a suspicious looking person in your neighborhood? TM did not live there. I know the normal happenings of my neighborhood and unless you live there or are lost, ours is a out of the way place to be. I don't think for one second this is about race, he saw someone in a hoodie, slinking about in the rain - I think he would have confronted the person no matter the color.
 
I fully support Trayvon Martin's Family! They have shown true class and dignity in the tragic "Murder" of their son!!! IMHO JMHO And i pray there is Justice for Trayvon..:please:
 
Funny how things have a way of morphing from question to certainty overnight.

BBM

Please provide a link establishing that whatever is under that yellow tarp is, in fact, the body of Trayvon or anyone else for that matter.

The father of a dead child told us where his son was found and in what position:

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

At the 1:33 mark:

"His feet were like on the sidewalk"

TMBody1.png


At the 1:39 mark:

"And his body was laid out this way" (motioning with both hands towards the grass on his right)

TMBody.png


Furthermore, if you'll notice, by counting the roofline bump outs over the porches/balconies and check any map of the development you so choose, you'll be able to determine that Tracy Martin is standing almost dead center of the back of that first building, NOT almost out to the building's end, like whatever is under that tarp that the post to which I'm responding suggests is so "clearly" a body.
That is hearsay and is not admissible in court. He was not there that night, but the camera that recorded the video showing the yellow tarp covering a body-like object was. Did you know that yellow tarps are routinely used by LE to cover bodies? I may have over-exaggerated with respect to certainty, but it's more likely that what is in that video is the body in its actual position than someone who was not there that night knows where it was located. JMO
 
BBM

TM is dead. TM didn't have a history of violent behavior. GZ did. Why would I weigh in factors that don't correlate directly to an individual's propensity to commit a violent crime?

I think anyone is capable of violence in the right circumstance, even individuals with no documented history of violence. If Trayvon thought GZ was going for a gun instead of his phone, he could have panicked and slugged him, especially if TM was thinking GZ had a gun all along. This is a boy who comes from an area in Florida where drive by shootings are a way of life. I can see him being scared. His girlfriend even says "run", which might be the norm for a kid from Miami Gardens, IMO.

I wrote a post a few threads back citing recent crime statistics and an official study of the area where Trayvon lived - teens being shot and killed is not uncommon. Violent crimes are extraordinarily high, including a large gang presence. Kids learn how to survive in that environment.

Gang Violence Growing In North Miami-Dade
April 1, 2012

"Police sources estimate that along a stretch of the county no more than seven or eight miles long and three or four miles wide as many as 30 people were shot and eight killed in March.

“It’s the North Side, it’s Liberty City, it’s Miami Gardens, it’s Opa Locka, it’s Model Cities,” Finnie noted. “I mean this is one community, its different boundaries but its one community, one family, and we should have one goal to resolve this issue.”

Where is the public outcry for these kids?

MJMO
 
The initial aggressor. The person that made the first aggressive move. Following someone is not aggressive. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin, Martin would be able to defend himself and Zimmerman would not be protected via the law. If Martin really just hauled off and punched Zimmerman and then pinned him to the ground, Martin would be the initial aggressor and would not be protected via the law.

I can aggree if he did not call LE and he was just following someone from a safe distance to see what they were doing. But he knows he was not to follow....he should know not to follow because he had a gun. What if he lost control...the gun was not secured to a belt, it was holstered in his pants. The instrunction by LE, and the reason LE does not want citizens getting involved is because they get hurt. They put their lives and others in jeopardy when they take matters into their own hands. GZ did this. He essentially ignored what he knew to do, ignored what LE had told him, ignored his better judgment and followed TM without any justifiable cause. At that point he was stalking. TM had done nothing wrong. It was GZ's suspicion, no one else's, and the incident would have been resolved.

GZ literally made a crime scene out of an innocent walk home of a minor. He did it without consideration of those around him and with total disregard to the community he lives in. He did it for self-serving reasons, to feed an ego. There was no one to protect. There was no one calling out for help because they were in distress. GZ made a life altering decision with total disregard for the person he was after. How can he justify following when he knows he was not suppose to. You can't say he has a right to follow because according to LE you don't because of the fact you are endangering others.

GZ irresponsible behavior put the wheels in motion. He lost control of a nightmare he started the minute he stepped from his vehicle. jmo
 
/quote/ The initial aggressor. The person that made the first aggressive move. Following someone is not aggressive. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin, Martin would be able to defend himself and Zimmerman would not be protected via the law. If Martin really just hauled off and punched Zimmerman and then pinned him to the ground, Martin would be the initial aggressor and would not be protected via the law. /quote/

I can aggree if he did not call LE and he was just following someone from a safe distance to see what they were doing. But he knows he was not to follow....he should know not to follow because he had a gun. What if he lost control...the gun was not secured to a belt, it was holstered in his pants. The instrunction by LE, and the reason LE does not want citizens getting involved is because they get hurt. They put their lives and others in jeopardy when they take matters into their own hands. GZ did this. He essentially ignored what he knew to do, ignored what LE had told him, ignored his better judgment and followed TM without any justifiable cause. At that point he was stalking. TM had done nothing wrong. It was GZ's suspicion, no one else's, and the incident would have been resolved.

GZ literally made a crime scene out of an innocent walk home of a minor. He did it without consideration of those around him and with total disregard to the community he lives in. He did it for self-serving reasons, to feed an ego. There was no one to protect. There was no one calling out for help because they were in distress. GZ made a life altering decision with total disregard for the person he was after. How can he justify following when he knows he was not suppose to. You can't say he has a right to follow because according to LE you don't because of the fact you are endangering others.

GZ irresponsible behavior put the wheels in motion. He lost control of a nightmare he started the minute he stepped from his vehicle. jmo
Do you think that Zimmerman should have paid for his bad decision of following someone from a distance to observe what they're doing an inform police with his life?
 
I would love to see this list of "regulars" or "residents" that everyone talks about.

No one has a right to follow someone just because they are new to a neighborhood. That's not really what Neighborhood Watch is for, imo.

We know there were people in the neighborhood who belonged there but were unknown to George Zimmerman and his wife. Trayvon is a good example because he was indeed living there and had every right to be there.

George didn't think Trayvon was a regular according to his own belief in who "belonged" and who didn't "belong." Clearly his isn't the only point of view in this case, it's just the only one on the 911 tapes. George had his own opinions about who was an in-group and who was an out-group in that community, and frankly I don't think it had anything to do with reality. :cow:

The homeowners chose a "gated" community, and they chose it for a reason. I'd find this much more odd in a regular neighborhood, but not a gated community.
 
According to the SPD following someone and asking them questions is considered stalking and can result in an arrest. This is exactly what Zimmerman did to Trayvon. If this law applies to any SPD employees then I certainly hope that it also applies to any person that is also being stalked.

MOO
 
That is hearsay and is not admissible in court. He was not there that night, but the camera that recorded the video showing the yellow tarp covering a body-like object was. Did you know that yellow tarps are routinely used by LE to cover bodies? I may have over-exaggerated with respect to certainty, but it's more likely that what is in that video is the body in its actual position than someone who was not there that night knows where it was located. JMO

Watch the video. He said Law Enforcement officers had taken the time to show him where the body of his son was found. I can only imagine that pain.

This isn't a court of law, this is a discussion forum. No matter what the unknown elements of this case may be, I doubt seriously there would be any question as to where Trayvon Martin's body was located.

You stick with the yellow tarp with something under it angle. I'll ride it out with a man who has lost his son knowing EXACTLY where he died.
 
Honestly I feel really bad for Trayvon's family, but his dad was not there, so I don't want to hear what he says about who was where and when, jmo

I would like the lady who actually saw them right outside her door to do an interview.
 
Watch the video. He said Law Enforcement officers had taken the time to show him where the body of his son was found. I can only imagine that pain.

This isn't a court of law, this is a discussion forum. No matter what the unknown elements of this case may be, I doubt seriously there would be any question as to where Trayvon Martin's body was located.

You stick with the yellow tarp with something under it angle. I'll ride it out with a man who has lost his son knowing EXACTLY where he died.

The pain is not describable and the vision persists (it is 8+ years for me now and the image and pain have not changed). Trust me, it is all they see and hear when Trayvon's parents close their eyes.
 
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...ission-votes-no-confidence.html#disqus_thread

• Initial police reports never mentioned that Zimmerman had a bloody nose or a wet shirt that showed evidence of a struggle. Attorneys for the dead teen’s family believe the information was added in a second report to justify the lack of an arrest.

• Police said witness statements supported Zimmerman’s account. But several of the witnesses expressed surprise, telling The Herald that they reported hearing someone crying for help just before a shot ended the cries. The 911 tapes of witness calls bolstered their claims.

• One of the witnesses who heard the crying said she called a detective repeatedly, but said he was not interested because her account differed from Zimmerman’s.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...tml#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy


IF Sanford Police did this what can happen to them? Anyone know? Mr Hornsby?
 
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