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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    Assuming what Anonymous said in those first comments is true and that he/she is correct in guessing the author of the old deleted anonymous posts, two questions come to mind.

    1. Why would McD bother posting that stuff anonymously? He posted all sorts of things that people find disturbing and was very open about who he was.

    2. Why did the admins delete it? What made it different from any of the other posts about death/murder/etc.?
    From what others have said on other sites, there was a thread regarding "the perfect murder" and different people contributed. Considering the content of that board and how they like to imagine carrying out "secret missions" and such, the perfect murder discussion thread seems quite believable.

    Course if there WAS a thread and several participated it wouldn't be fair to just claim it was McDaniel that did it out of the blue.

    Also folks if you go to www.archive.org a copy of that site is there, (most pages, maybe not all) dated April 2011, another dated Feb 2011. All of the older SoL posts can probably be found if you can remember where they were (don't think google can search those archives).

    They have older versions too and they could have also captured a version after the murder but haven't posted it yet, they don't post cached copies for up to a year but will sell them to individuals ahead of time. That archive is frequently mentioned on computer forensic articles as a common resource.


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  3. #272
    SwissGuy: Someone else can verify better than I, but I think the FBI takeover stuff originated from a banner that was posted on your site for a while during the transition period. (Or maybe that was in response to something said here? If so, I missed it).

    As you noted, many of the posters here have a hard time understanding OpChan humor/sarcasm/lulz and just the general mentality. I think all people tend to be ethnocentric. I hope you are able to understand it as a genuine culture/language barrier, and not as informed maliciousness.
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~


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  5. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    From what others have said on other sites, there was a thread regarding "the perfect murder" and different people contributed. Considering the content of that board and how they like to imagine carrying out "secret missions" and such, the perfect murder discussion thread seems quite believable.

    Course if there WAS a thread and several participated it wouldn't be fair to just claim it was McDaniel that did it out of the blue.

    Also folks if you go to www.archive.org a copy of that site is there, (most pages, maybe not all) dated April 2011, another dated Feb 2011. All of the older SoL posts can probably be found if you can remember where they were (don't think google can search those archives).

    They have older versions too and they could have also captured a version after the murder but haven't posted it yet, they don't post cached copies for up to a year but will sell them to individuals ahead of time. That archive is frequently mentioned on computer forensic articles as a common resource.
    Thanks for the tips, Sonya.

    I took a brief look at the posts when the story broke and didn't find them disturbing or particularly relevant, despite the frenzy. I try to avoid anything that approaches the criminalization of thought, so I didn't pay them much mind. I am sorry to see that they've become such an issue. I'm interested in them now only because the prosecution seems to see things that I don't.
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~


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  7. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    Someone else can verify better than I, but I think the FBI takeover stuff originated from a banner that was posted
    Southern Comfort in a communication along the same vein, you yourself mentioned that early on most everyone here thought McDaniel was guilty and those that were "riding the fence" took a lot of heat from other posters for it.

    SwissGuy welcome:

    While some observers may see all of the posters on this board as condemning McDaniel and convinced of his guilt with or without evidence (at least before, less so now) that was certainly NOT the case and never has been, however those that don't join the bandwagon and condemn the accused are often shall we say....socially ostracized in various ways and decide to take their views elsewhere.

    Some folks such as myself, albeit rare, don't really care if he did it or not from the standpoint of moral judgement, we just find the process of the investigation and the final result to be quite interesting; this is one really amazing roller coaster of a case with a collection of bizarre characters that is utterly astounding!


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  9. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    Southern Comfort in a communication along the same vein, you yourself mentioned that early on most everyone here thought McDaniel was guilty and those that were "riding the fence" took a lot of heat from other posters for it.

    SwissGuy welcome:

    While some observers may see all of the posters on this board as condemning McDaniel and convinced of his guilt with or without evidence (at least before, less so now) that was certainly NOT the case and never has been, however those that don't join the bandwagon and condemn the accused are often shall we say....socially ostracized in various ways and decide to take their views elsewhere.

    Some folks such as myself, albeit rare, don't really care if he did it or not, we just find the process of the investigation and the final result to be quite interesting; this is one really amazing roller coaster of a case with a collection of bizarre characters that is utterly astounding! Throw in the fact it happened a few miles away (from me) and it is deserves much attention.
    It sounds like you may be concerned about the basic integrity of the system and whether justice can ever be truly served by it. That pretty much sums up how I am feeling.
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~


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  11. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    Southern Comfort in a communication along the same vein, you yourself mentioned that early on most everyone here thought McDaniel was guilty and those that were "riding the fence" took a lot of heat from other posters for it.

    SwissGuy welcome:

    While some observers may see all of the posters on this board as condemning McDaniel and convinced of his guilt with or without evidence (at least before, less so now) that was certainly NOT the case and never has been, however those that don't join the bandwagon and condemn the accused are often shall we say....socially ostracized in various ways and decide to take their views elsewhere.

    Some folks such as myself, albeit rare, don't really care if he did it or not from the standpoint of moral judgement, we just find the process of the investigation and the final result to be quite interesting; this is one really amazing roller coaster of a case with a collection of bizarre characters that is utterly astounding!


    Blah, my iPad just kicked me off after I wrote a really good post. To be continued


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  13. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    It sounds like you may be concerned about the basic integrity of the system and whether justice can ever be truly served by it. That pretty much sums up how I am feeling.
    I suppose I can join this bandwagan in regards to whether we feel justice can truly be served based on the integrity of the system. However, a contradiction if you say you do not care about the guilt or innocence of the accused or care about whether he did or did not do it, because his guilt or innocence goes hand in hand with this system (that we presume to care about)


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  15. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaSunshine View Post
    Blah, my iPad just kicked me off after I wrote a really good post. To be continued
    LOL..Same thing happened to me yesterday. grrr


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  17. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    Southern Comfort in a communication along the same vein, you yourself mentioned that early on most everyone here thought McDaniel was guilty and those that were "riding the fence" took a lot of heat from other posters for it.

    SwissGuy welcome:

    While some observers may see all of the posters on this board as condemning McDaniel and convinced of his guilt with or without evidence (at least before, less so now) that was certainly NOT the case and never has been, however those that don't join the bandwagon and condemn the accused are often shall we say....socially ostracized in various ways and decide to take their views elsewhere.

    Some folks such as myself, albeit rare, don't really care if he did it or not from the standpoint of moral judgement, we just find the process of the investigation and the final result to be quite interesting; this is one really amazing roller coaster of a case with a collection of bizarre characters that is utterly astounding!

    Okay, I hate that the defendants of McD feel that way, because I know i personally feel the same way whenever i say something in positive for the prosecution. I just can't post on here that much for fear of that, because I know <modsnip> facts that I cannot discuss, since this case is so important that there is justice brought for LG. <modsnip> I realize it is innocence until proven guilty, but it is very hard for me to think about that <modsnip>. So, if you hear a frustrated post from me from time to time, please just know my angst. Not directed at you but the situation.
    Last edited by bessie; 04-13-2012 at 01:19 PM. Reason: alluding to inside information, baiting. if you can't post it, please don't mention it.


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  19. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwissGuy View Post
    At no time have we received notice from either the current provider or previous provider of a Subpoena or Warrant to seize and utilize data pertaining to OPchan, which of course calls into question how exactly they intend on verfying the "troll" post in court.
    <snip>
    All records beyond screencaps and the like (which of course do not meet chain-of-custody needs) from that period are gone beyond retrieval.
    Sounds like you have researched this matter thoroughly! I completely agree, without a warrant to gather the server information it is all hearsay, and eye witness testimony is typically used to settle disputes when no electronic evidence is presented (assuming it goes that far, and it probably won't).


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  21. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    Sounds like you have researched this matter thoroughly! I completely agree, without a warrant to gather the server information it is all hearsay, and eye witness testimony is typically used to settle disputes when no electronic evidence is presented (assuming it goes that far, and it probably won't).
    That is basically what we have been saying, it's all hearsay unti there is evidence to the contrary!!!!!!!


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  23. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaSunshine View Post
    Okay, I hate that the defendants of McD feel that way, because I know i personally feel the same way whenever i say something in positive for the prosecution. <modsnip>
    Hi Georgia,

    Do you think McD wrote the post that's causing all this controversy? Hopefully you can give an opinion on that.
    Last edited by bessie; 04-13-2012 at 01:21 PM. Reason: snipped quoted post
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~


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  25. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomkat View Post
    However, a contradiction if you say you do not care about the guilt or innocence of the accused or care about whether he did or did not do it, because his guilt or innocence goes hand in hand with this system (that we presume to care about)
    The decision of the court regarding guilt or innocent is supposed to be based on the "preponderance of evidence" presented and of course how well that evidence is spun for the jury. He may very well be guilty, but if they do not have the evidence to prove it he will be found innocent; the court decision will be based on the evidence not on whether or not he committed the crime.

    I honestly do not believe they have much more than what they had originally, I believe that is why they filed the murder indictment after the 90 day window and why they are bringing up internet posts and still harping on cadaver dog signals. If they had found the smoking gun 30 days after the arrest warrant was issued they would have filed the indictment far sooner, they were likely hoping the FBI would send back something really good.

    I personally believe that once this got started and they had fingered McDaniel as the prime suspect they had to keep pursuing it even though they really didn't have the goods because it would have made them look really really bad politically if they stopped pursuing it or stated they weren't ready to pursue it at this time. The public would be outraged and it could damage careers or cause elections to be lost so they just kept the ball rolling.

    All just my opinion of course.


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  27. #284
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    I have nothing important to add other than to say it is fascinating watching this unfold. This will be a landmark case here at WS.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~ Aristotle

    The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.


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  29. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    The decision of the court regarding guilt or innocent is supposed to be based on the "preponderance of evidence" presented and of course how well that evidence is spun for the jury. He may very well be guilty, but if they do not have the evidence to prove it he will be found innocent; the court decision will be based on the evidence not on whether or not he committed the crime.

    I honestly do not believe they have much more than what they had originally, I believe that is why they filed the murder indictment after the 90 day window and why they are bringing up internet posts and still harping on cadaver dog signals. If they had found the smoking gun 30 days after the arrest warrant was issued they would have filed the indictment far sooner, they were likely hoping the FBI would send back something really good.

    I personally believe that once this got started and they had fingered McDaniel as the prime suspect they had to keep pursuing it even though they really didn't have the goods because it would have made them look really really bad politically if they stopped pursuing it or stated they weren't ready to pursue it at this time. The public would be outraged and it could damage careers or cause elections to be lost so they just kept the ball rolling.

    All just my opinion of course.
    I tend to agree with you on many of these points. I don't feel sure of anything, but the lack of revelation has me feeling skeptical.

    I wanted to point out, though, that "preponderance of the evidence" is actually the usual civil burden of proof (though it's also used in grand jury proceedings). It's much lower than what is required to find a criminal defendant guilty -- which is "beyond a reasonable doubt".
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~


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