Page 19 of 40 FirstFirst ... 91011121314151617181920212223242526272829 ... LastLast
Results 451 to 475 of 985

Thread: 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

  1. #451
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    205

    HP

    Quote Originally Posted by Desdemona View Post
    So sorry about your child's injuries and disability.

    No, Uhrig absolutely did NOT say or in any way imply that GZ's resulting injury was diagnosable as SBS.

    Uhrig said the Florida "Stand Your Ground" statute applied because Zimmerman feared for his life: "One of the points people have said, the force [used against Martin] was too much, even if he broke his nose and slammed his head into the ground.

    Many people remember the case of Liam Neeson's wife - fell on a little ski slope, hit her head one time on the ground, and died. We're familiar with the shaken baby syndrome: You shake a baby the brain shakes around inside the skull, you can die.

    "When someone is pounding your head on the ground, and you've already had your nose broken, you could be in reasonable fear for great bodily harm - which is what the Florida statute calls for - and if you think you're about to lose your life or be seriously injured like that, you're absolutely entitled to take the necessary action to stop it."


    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...cted-by-media/

    You can watch and listen at 3:43 in the video posted at the link.

    Apologies if already posted.
    Huffpo has a different take. I believe the inference was there. Also if I offended anyone before I am sorry. I have very strong feelings about defense tactics. JMO

  2. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to mfcmom For This Useful Post:


  3. #452
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrienne37 View Post
    NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape..

    NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

    The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

    http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...immerman-tape/
    I for one am relieved. They don't need someone who purposely misleads their audience. And I don't believe - for a minute - that anyone who has the wits to be able to work in a major media outlet and edit tape doesn't have the wits to know exactly the misleading effect that editing job will have on the viewers.

    In this cutthroat business to be considered the most believable media outlet in the market, having an editor who changes tapes to further an agenda - instead of further the truth - can't be tolerated.

    He's either really too dumb to know what he's done will have an effect on the perception of truth with their audience, or he knows it and did it on purpose. Both are dangerous to have in the newsroom, I don't know which is more detrimental to the success of NBC.

  4. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to JeannaT For This Useful Post:


  5. #453
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    11,167
    Quote Originally Posted by rotterdam View Post
    It is a horrible law in its current form. At the point where GZ left his car with a loaded gun and preyed on Tray for no good reason, he became the aggressor/provoker. And I really do not care what happened after that.
    The SYG should not be a walking piece of real estate that envelops the aggressor in a mobile protective immune bubble. The SYG victimizes the (dead)victim by not giving the victim any human/civil rights and/or any due process in a court.
    All IMO.
    I certainly agree with you on this, rotterdam. I, too, believe that GZ did become the aggressor.

    This SYG law needs to be rewritten in plain English if kept at all. There are just too many holes in it, IMO.

    MOO
    **May God Watch Over All Missing and Abused Children**

  6. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to LaLaw2000 For This Useful Post:


  7. #454
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Head+Heart
    Posts
    767
    Quote Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
    GZ's attorney would have sounded more intelligent claiming a coup countercoup injury, but that too would required diagnostics, and GZ probably would have had to go to the hospital.
    Just to clarify, Uhrig did not "claim" any specific type of injury. As examples, he brought up two types of serious/fatal brain injury, one being closed-head injury due to a seemingly harmless blow, and one being SBS, in asserting that GZ had every reason to to fear serious injury or death when his head was being slammed into the ground, and every right to protect himself.
    Justice and power must be brought together,
    so that whatever is just may be powerful,
    and whatever is powerful may be just.
    Blaise Pascal

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Desdemona For This Useful Post:


  9. #455
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,653
    You know if GZ is arrested for at least manslaughter they are going to try and get everything he said the night of the shooting and the walk-through the next day thrown out? They're going to blame SPD, EMS, etc... for not getting him medical attention? They are going to say he could not legally, with his severe head injury, sign a waiver so it is invalid. Then we'll get into the whole Miranda Warning (which hopefully they gave him) and how even if he was read his Miranda Warning, his severe head injury prevented him from fully understanding what he was agreeing to.

    Also, why in the world wouldn't GZ want to release the medical report showing what his actual injuries were? If I was GZ, I would have released that weeks ago to show just how bad my injuries were. Especially a broken nose and a gash that would have required stitches had it not started to heal? I wonder if he went to a family doctor or if he went to the ER?

    I'm still puzzled why they are withholding the autopsy report? I don't understand that? Did Trayvon have injuries that they don't want released to the public yet?

    Another question I have would be, when Police took the gun from Zimmerman, did they have gloves on? We all seen how the one officer totally disregarded basic safety measures when frisking Zimmerman, but what about when they took the gun? If Trayvon was going to the gun, his fingerprints should be on the gun? What part of the gun were Trayvon's fingerprints? If it was on the actual nozzle (is that the name for where the bullet comes out) I think it would mean Trayvon was trying to get the gun away from pointing at him. If the fingerprints were on the handle (where you hold it and the trigger is?) then it would go with Trayvon going for the gun while in Zimmerman's waistband?

    So many questions still! It's driving me insane.

    MOO
    Justice for Trayvon

  10. The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to LolaMoon08 For This Useful Post:


  11. #456
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Left Coast USA
    Posts
    6,207
    "But Uhrig's choice of words, and use of a recognized sign of child abuse to defend a 28-year-old man who killed a kid, seemed likely to raise more than just a few eyebrows.

    "We're familiar with the Shaken Baby Syndrome," said Uhrig on the CBS This Morning program. "You shake a baby, the brain shakes around inside the skull. You can die when someone's pounding your head into the ground.""

    The Reuters Article:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8350D520120406

  12. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to i.b.nora For This Useful Post:


  13. #457
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,653
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrienne37 View Post
    Witness: Sanford police uninterested in her account

    SANFORD, FL (RNN) - A witness is claiming the Sanford Police showed little interest in what she had seen around the time of the shooting of the unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin, on the night of Feb. 26.

    The woman told CNN she witnessed the entire incident, including the shooting. She said she called 911 that night.

    Officials from the state attorney's office have questioned her, CNN reporter Ashley Banfield said.

    http://www.14news.com/story/17354449...in-her-account
    I wish we had at least a name for this witness or a idea of what she saw? Is it MC? Or would it be the woman from the call where we heard the actual shot fired?
    Justice for Trayvon

  14. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to LolaMoon08 For This Useful Post:


  15. #458
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Desdemona View Post
    Just to clarify, Uhrig did not "claim" any specific type of injury. As examples, he brought up two types of serious/fatal brain injury, one being closed-head injury due to a seemingly harmless blow, and one being SBS, in asserting that GZ had every reason to to fear serious injury or death when his head was being slammed into the ground, and every right to protect himself.
    Again if these injuries were so severe and likely to cause you death possibly within a few days, why was he not treated in the ER the night of Trayvon's murder? His brother indicated that he was barely conscious, one step away from being spoon fed and wearing diapers. I would love a very reasonable explanation as to why he didn't go to the hospital.


    ~jmo~

  16. The Following 20 Users Say Thank You to Adrienne37 For This Useful Post:


  17. #459
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,913
    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    I for one am relieved. They don't need someone who purposely misleads their audience. And I don't believe - for a minute - that anyone who has the wits to be able to work in a major media outlet and edit tape doesn't have the wits to know exactly the misleading effect that editing job will have on the viewers.

    In this cutthroat business to be considered the most believable media outlet in the market, having an editor who changes tapes to further an agenda - instead of further the truth - can't be tolerated.

    He's either really too dumb to know what he's done will have an effect on the perception of truth with their audience, or he knows it and did it on purpose. Both are dangerous to have in the newsroom, I don't know which is more detrimental to the success of NBC.
    I sort of have a different take on it JennaT - don't you think it's possible this editor is just the fall guy? It would be hard to believe a conglomerate as big as NBC doesn't have a check and balance system. Firing this guy is showing they took a stand, problem solved - probably a nice severance package. He'll be editing at FOX News next week. JMO

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to vlpate For This Useful Post:


  19. #460
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,690
    Quote Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
    You know if GZ is arrested for at least manslaughter they are going to try and get everything he said the night of the shooting and the walk-through the next day thrown out? They're going to blame SPD, EMS, etc... for not getting him medical attention? They are going to say he could not legally, with his severe head injury, sign a waiver so it is invalid. Then we'll get into the whole Miranda Warning (which hopefully they gave him) and how even if he was read his Miranda Warning, his severe head injury prevented him from fully understanding what he was agreeing to.

    Also, why in the world wouldn't GZ want to release the medical report showing what his actual injuries were? If I was GZ, I would have released that weeks ago to show just how bad my injuries were. Especially a broken nose and a gash that would have required stitches had it not started to heal? I wonder if he went to a family doctor or if he went to the ER?

    I'm still puzzled why they are withholding the autopsy report? I don't understand that? Did Trayvon have injuries that they don't want released to the public yet?

    Another question I have would be, when Police took the gun from Zimmerman, did they have gloves on? We all seen how the one officer totally disregarded basic safety measures when frisking Zimmerman, but what about when they took the gun? If Trayvon was going to the gun, his fingerprints should be on the gun? What part of the gun were Trayvon's fingerprints? If it was on the actual nozzle (is that the name for where the bullet comes out) I think it would mean Trayvon was trying to get the gun away from pointing at him. If the fingerprints were on the handle (where you hold it and the trigger is?) then it would go with Trayvon going for the gun while in Zimmerman's waistband?

    So many questions still! It's driving me insane.

    MOO
    I don't think the autopsy report is complete. The cause of death is obvious, but they won't have the tox report back, I don't think. Those take forever.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JeannaT For This Useful Post:


  21. #461
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,267
    Quote Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
    I wish we had at least a name for this witness or a idea of what she saw? Is it MC? Or would it be the woman from the call where we heard the actual shot fired?
    I have no clue Lola. Hopefully we will get a little bit more information from her.

  22. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Adrienne37 For This Useful Post:


  23. #462
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    CT/NC
    Posts
    18,590
    w
    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    The misconception here, is that he doesn't have to have authority to follow someone who is in public, while waiting for LE to show up and investigate.

    Where would we be, as a society, if you saw something you thought was suspicious and you don't have a right to keep an eye on the person while the cop you just called is on the way?
    Once you have called in a complaint of a suspect it is official police business. If they tell you to stay with your car they mean it or they would not tell you to do so. No one asked GZ to follow, he knew full well he was not suppose to because he set up the NW Program himself. He knew what to do and disregarded the very rules of the program. He knew it was dangerous to follow someone he had already decided was a suspect. Whatever was his motivation???? His car was parked in front of a home that faced the street with a house number on it but he ignored LE's request to return to his car and kept walking to the next street (according to his Dad).

    LE can't do their job with people who take it upon themselves to interfer. And once that call is placed it is official police business your obligation ends. All LE did was ask if he wanted to meet the cruiser and where would he be. He never said I'm planning on continued to follow this dude. He owed LE the consideration as a private citizen to do as they had asked him to do. Go back to your car, you don't need to follow, we have a car on the way, please meet us at the mailboxes, etc. on and on. It's all pretty clear.

    If everyone decided to take matter into their own hands it would be a lawless society. Two things that put LE at a disadvantage. GZ did not tell them he fully intended to keep following TM and that he was armed with a gun. Two very important facts that LE should have been aware of.

    Once you call it in to LE, let them do their job, please. GZ owed TM that consideration. Now TM is dead and it did not have to turn out that way. jmo
    A lie will go round the world before the truth gets its pants on - Charles Spurgeon

  24. The Following 21 Users Say Thank You to LambChop For This Useful Post:


  25. #463
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
    I don't know that the editing of the tape should have warranted firing of a person from his job. Hope GZ knows how far reaching his actions have been!
    Their job is to report the news not create it.

  26. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to saguaro For This Useful Post:


  27. #464
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    20,027
    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    w

    Once you have called in a complaint of a suspect it is official police business. If they tell you to stay with your car they mean it or they would not tell you to do so. No one asked GZ to follow, he knew full well he was not suppose to because he set up the NW Program himself. He knew what to do and disregarded the very rules of the program. He knew it was dangerous to follow someone he had already decided was a suspect. What ever was his motivation???? His car was parked in front of a home that faced the street with a house number on it but he ignored LE's request to return to his car and kept walking to the next street (according to his Dad).

    LE can't do their job with people who take it upon themselves to interfer. And once that call is place it is official police business your obligation ends. All LE did was ask if he wanted to meet the cruiser and where would he be. He never said I'm planning on continued to follow this dude. He owed LE the consideration as a private citizen to do as they had asked him to do. Go back to your car, you don't need to follow, we have a car on the way, please meet us at the mailboxes, etc. on and on. It's all pretty clear.

    If everyone decided to take matter into their own hands it would be would have a lawless society.

    Once you call it in to LE, let them do their job, please. GZ owed TM that consideration. Now TM is dead and it did not have to turn out that way. jmo
    BBM...

    This is how I see it to LambChop.
    When your child goes missing: A Family Survival Guide
    Missing Adult Checklist
    Websleuth's Resource Center

    F.R.I.E.N.D.S.
    Fight for you

    Respect you
    Include you
    Encourage you
    Need you
    Deserve you
    Stand by you


  28. The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to imamaze For This Useful Post:


  29. #465
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,690
    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    I sort of have a different take on it JennaT - don't you think it's possible this editor is just the fall guy? It would be hard to believe a conglomerate as big as NBC doesn't have a check and balance system. Firing this guy is showing they took a stand, problem solved - probably a nice severance package. He'll be editing at FOX News next week. JMO
    I doubt, having edited that tape in a way that shows a clear bias toward Trayvon, he will ever get an interview at FOX. ;D

    But yes, maybe he was a fall guy in a large group of employees who all were working to taint the truth. Telling only one side of a story is something that's common at this point in the media, and we've grown to expect and predict one sided MSM - God rest Walter Chronkite's soul - but to actually change an audio tape of a recorded phone call to make the caller appear racist is beyond that practice of only telling one side.

    And truthfully, depending on what market you're listening to, you need to be aware of their bias so you can filter that way. That's just reality. But to actually present a doctored audio tape is so disrespectful of their viewers.

    Nobody in this, on either side, wants to be lied to or given evidence that has been altered. We all want the truth.

    *tap tap* There. Off my soap box now. ;D

  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JeannaT For This Useful Post:


  31. #466
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein View Post
    By that token TM had an incident in which he had jewlery that wasn't his and a burglary tool...yet that is clearly disregarded when it is relevant to whether he may have been casing homes. That's considered "bashing" though. TM had a criminal background as well, but with no convictions.
    The question would be if TM had those items on him at the time of the shooting. The answer is no, he didn't. It's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

  32. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to jaded cat For This Useful Post:


  33. #467
    Kimberlyd125's Avatar
    Kimberlyd125 is offline Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athletes.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    15,486
    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    How would GZ have done that if TM attacked him from behind, knocked him down and was banging his head against the cement while pinning him to the ground? You can't clip a gun to your pants if it's under your shirt. You would want it under your jacket but not under your shirt. An unclipped gun would fall down through his pants and he would have lost it half way down the sidewalk. My husband had a clip on his holster to clip to a belt. GZ had no belt so it would have to be clipped to his pants, IMO. jmo
    I was jumping off of your post where you said...
    "IMO the gun was tucked into his waistband between his shirt and his pants".

    I guess I thought you meant that his shirt was tucked over the gun and into his pants.
    Glove Findin'
    Uniform Washin'
    Gatorade Gettin'
    Picture Takin'
    Always Cheerin'

    Softball Mom

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to Kimberlyd125 For This Useful Post:


  35. #468
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    The beautiful roundabout of Context, Veracity, and JUSTICE
    Posts
    11,434
    Bumping this reminder.

    Quote Originally Posted by ynotdivein View Post
    Seems that many here would like to know if GZ had been drinking that night.

    Also seems that many here would like to know if TM had done anything other than walk straight to the store and back that night.

    AFAICT, we have insufficient evidence at this time to prove anything conclusive about either of these questions.

    Until we do, let's move the discussion on to more productive lines of sleuthing.

    This post lands at random, and
    You can hold back from the suffering of the world. You have free permission to do so and it is in accordance with your nature.
    But perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could have avoided.
    Franz Kafka

    Be not simply good. Be good for something.
    HDT

  36. The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to ynotdivein For This Useful Post:


  37. #469
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,459
    Witness was just interviewed on CNN -- says she was on the phone with 911 when shot went off and held phone up to screen. Says she was certain GZ was on top and entire altercation was at least 4 feet away from concrete. Her attorney says SA investigators did not do a very complete interview -- only 15 minutes. This witness had been interviewed before but this was more complete.


  38. #470
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sacramento CA
    Posts
    6,118
    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    I sort of have a different take on it JennaT - don't you think it's possible this editor is just the fall guy? It would be hard to believe a conglomerate as big as NBC doesn't have a check and balance system. Firing this guy is showing they took a stand, problem solved - probably a nice severance package. He'll be editing at FOX News next week. JMO
    You have a point there vlpate. Why didn't the script editor, senior producer or legal department catch the "mistake".
    Citing an anonymous network executive, Reuters reported that “the ‘Today’ show’s editorial control policies — which include a script editor, senior producer oversight and in most cases legal and standards department reviews of material to be broadcast — missed the selective editing of the call.”
    http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.co...immerman-tape/

  39. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RANCH For This Useful Post:


  40. #471
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Florida's Treasure Coast
    Posts
    14,557
    Well, I have listened to that slowed down tape of the screaming on and off for the last 3 hours. I can finally hear the words "somebody help". Its tangled in the callers words right after the dispatchers says her peace.
    I am coming down off the fence now.

  41. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Beyond Belief For This Useful Post:


  42. #472
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,690
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyGatto View Post
    Witness was just interviewed on CNN -- says she was on the phone with 911 when shot went off and held phone up to screen. Says she was certain GZ was on top and entire altercation was at least 4 feet away from concrete. Her attorney says SA investigators did not do a very complete interview -- only 15 minutes. This witness had been interviewed before but this was more complete.
    A witness has an attorney? ??

    I'm sorry to be dense, but what does that mean "and held phone up to screen". Does that mean she photographed what she saw with her phone?

    It strains the imagination to think of how GZ got injuries to the back of his head when he was on top during a fight. Also it strains the imagination to think how Trayvon would be losing a hand to hand fight with GZ.

  43. The Following User Says Thank You to JeannaT For This Useful Post:


  44. #473
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,653
    I have another question?? The officer's who brought Zimmerman to the station... would they have had the gun or would that have been left with the detectives on the scene?

    I would love to see the chain of custody that gun went through that night? Fingerprints should be very easy to obtain since LE got there so quick. Zimmerman and Trayvon's fingerprints should be on the gun.

    MOO
    Justice for Trayvon

  45. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to LolaMoon08 For This Useful Post:


  46. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    w

    Once you have called in a complaint of a suspect it is official police business. If they tell you to stay with your car they mean it or they would not tell you to do so. No one asked GZ to follow, he knew full well he was not suppose to because he set up the NW Program himself. He knew what to do and disregarded the very rules of the program. He knew it was dangerous to follow someone he had already decided was a suspect. Whatever was his motivation???? His car was parked in front of a home that faced the street with a house number on it but he ignored LE's request to return to his car and kept walking to the next street (according to his Dad).

    LE can't do their job with people who take it upon themselves to interfer. And once that call is placed it is official police business your obligation ends. All LE did was ask if he wanted to meet the cruiser and where would he be. He never said I'm planning on continued to follow this dude. He owed LE the consideration as a private citizen to do as they had asked him to do. Go back to your car, you don't need to follow, we have a car on the way, please meet us at the mailboxes, etc. on and on. It's all pretty clear.

    If everyone decided to take matter into their own hands it would be a lawless society. Two things that put LE at a disadvantage. GZ did not tell them he fully intended to keep following TM and that he was armed with a gun. Two very important facts that LE should have been aware of.

    Once you call it in to LE, let them do their job, please. GZ owed TM that consideration. Now TM is dead and it did not have to turn out that way. jmo


  47. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to uvamerica For This Useful Post:


  48. #475
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,653
    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    A witness has an attorney? ??

    I'm sorry to be dense, but what does that mean "and held phone up to screen". Does that mean she photographed what she saw with her phone?
    If I was a witness to a murder that has become this high profile, I would get an attorney too. No one wants to get Kronked!
    Justice for Trayvon


Page 19 of 40 FirstFirst ... 91011121314151617181920212223242526272829 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15
    By imamaze in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 1163
    Last Post: 04-03-2012, 05:28 PM
  2. 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14
    By imamaze in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 1285
    Last Post: 04-02-2012, 04:17 PM
  3. 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13
    By imamaze in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 912
    Last Post: 04-01-2012, 04:54 PM
  4. FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12
    By ynotdivein in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 934
    Last Post: 03-31-2012, 09:12 PM
  5. FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11
    By beach in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 1090
    Last Post: 03-31-2012, 08:26 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •