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Thread: 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #20

  1. #526
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    This is what I cannot get past...

    I understand Zimmerman calling the non-emergency line. Fine! What I will never understand him doing is getting out of that truck and following Trayvon, even after the dispatcher told Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that." He continued.

    It is insulting, at least to me, that they are trying to make us believe that Zimmerman was innocently checking the street address and when he was walking back to his car, Trayvon attacked him from behind. It makes no sense! Trayvon was running/walking fast AWAY from George! IMO.

    The fact that Zimmerman had lived in that community since 2009, and the little tidbit Frank T. revealed about Zimmmerman walking around with a 100 pound dog and a loaded gun when he did his rounds, tells me a lot about George Zimmerman. The fact that Frank T. has said George had "fed up" issues, tells me all I need to know about George Zimmerman. IMO.

    George knew that neighborhood like the back of his hand, IMO. There was no checking street addresses... and if he really wanted to check a street address, he should have drove around. If he was that fearful of this suspicious kid... he would have stayed in his car. He was not afraid of Trayvon and took it upon himself to catch back up with Trayvon and confront him. IMO.

    Frank T. should have felt some obligation to tell the HOA the things he knew about George. The way he explains it... George was not of sound mind to even be in that position.

    MOO
    Justice for Trayvon


  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    Yeah, who cares. It's just a dead black kid, who would even notice?
    I think that's exactly what Wolfinger and SPD thought, too. JMO

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  4. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrys View Post
    Have any proof he's not a racist?
    His family tells stories of him volunteering with Black children, and he was the lone hispanic man posting flyers in protest when a Black man was killed by a cop the year prior.

    I don't think a racist would do either of those things.

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  6. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    His family tells stories of him volunteering with Black children, and he was the lone hispanic man posting flyers in protest when a Black man was killed by a cop the year prior.

    I don't think a racist would do either of those things.
    Yet, no one else has confirmed it?

    MOO
    Justice for Trayvon

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  8. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottle Cap View Post
    I don't see how any of us can achieve complete objectivity when one whole half of the story is missing.

    To approach this as if Trayvon's story is irrelevant simply because he's not here to give it isn't, in my book, viewing this objectively. It is viewing half of the story objectively.
    Trayvon's story is relevant, it's just that the majority of the assumptions of his story being unfavorable to Zimmerman in lieu of known fact that shows the lack of objectivity. Again, we can all hammer Zimmerman until the end of time if/when the evidence takes us there. Why the rush?

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  10. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frydaddy View Post
    Running, two minutes, walking four. That's assuming a quarter mile, which is very generous on the estimated distance.

    Clearly, from any point along that "back sidewalk", TM had the available time to walk or run to his home provided he was not stopped.

    Since I have been asked a reasonable question and have responded in kind, I would also like to ask a question which will explain, at least for myself, a great skepticism for the events of that evening as told by GZ and his agents.

    On April 4th, Robert Zimmerman and both of GZ's attorneys were interviewed on the Sean Hannity show. The following image is the route described as GZ having taken and the sequence of events they say happened between the starting point of being told by the 911 dispatcher "We do not need you to do that", and the end point of GZ supposedly being brutally beaten by TM.

    According to the transcript at:

    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannit...artin-shooting

    The sequence and travel path are as follows:



    (1) ZIMMERMAN: From where George's vehicle was, there's a sidewalk that goes to the next street over.

    HANNITY: OK.

    ZIMMERMAN: Off of that sidewalk there's another sidewalk that goes between two rows of townhomes. It's my understanding that Trayvon went between the two rows of townhomes, and George was walking down the main sidewalk to see if he could see where Trayvon was going.

    (2) ZIMMERMAN: When the dispatcher said we know longer need you to do that, and George acknowledged OK. He no longer knew where Trayvon was. So he continued walking down the sidewalk directly in front of him to the next street to get an address

    (3) He got an address. He was walking back to his vehicle.

    (4) As he was walking back to his vehicle, there was a sidewalk that goes to his left and Trayvon came from that area where the sidewalks meet. He asked my son if he had a problem, and George said, no, I don't have a problem. Trayvon said, well, you do now. He punched him in the face, broke his nose, knocked him to the sidewalk, and got on him and started beating him
    Now to a couple of questions.

    -We know that GZ got out of his vehicle at point (1) to begin this walk at [2:08] into the 911 call. We have all heard even the door opening pings as he exits the vehicle.

    -We also know that the 911 dispatcher told GZ "we don't need you to do that" at [2:26] into the call which was 16 seconds after GZ started to follow TM. At a well document 3 mph walk rate for an adult male, in 16 seconds, he would have walked 70 feet to arrive at point (2).

    -We are being told that he continued walking straight ahead to the next street over at point (3) where he obtained an address.

    -We are then told that GZ started walking back to his vehicle until he reached the point where the sidewalks meet at point (4) to be brutally beaten by TM.

    Since the above post to which I'm commenting apparently has some level of experience with time/distance calculations, I would like to ask two questions.

    (a) Please feel free to double check in any scaled map reference that's preferred, but Google Earth plots the distance travelled from point (2) to point (4) as 243 feet.

    I couldn't help but notice that in analyzing TM's walk rate to his residence, a rate of 4 minutes per quarter of a mile was applied. Lets apply the same rate to this 243 feet and see how long it would have taken GZ to travel.

    .25 miles = 1,320 feet divided by 4 = 330 feet per minute. Since GZ only walked 243 feet, a quick ratio calculation tells us that the total time for GZ to go from point (2) to his brutal beating at point (4) would be 45 seconds.

    If we add this time of 45 seconds to his KNOWN beginning time of [2:26] into the 911 call, we are being told that George Zimmerman was being brutally beaten at [3:11], right?

    My first question....How was George Zimmerman able to retain his composure enough to continue to carry on his 911 call through this brutal attack in light of the fact that the call lasted four minutes and seven seconds?

    My last question....Since GZ has claimed justification in killing an unarmed 17 year old boy by pulling out his pistol and firing one shot into his chest, while being beaten at the point his father tells us the attack happened, how did the body wind up 100 feet away per SPD and SFD at point (5)?



    -
    Last edited by Concerned Papa; 04-10-2012 at 04:28 PM.


    But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops. Luke 12, 2-3



  11. #532
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    Do we know how many times Trayvon has visited this community? Has it ever crossed our minds that maybe, while being scared and trying to get away from Zimmerman, Trayvon became disoriented? I've accidentally walked into other people's houses (more than once) when I had just moved to that location. It can take a while to get used to. Especially when all the homes looked exactly alike.
    Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-10-2012 at 03:51 PM. Reason: quoted snipped post
    Justice for Trayvon

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  13. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScubaTwinn View Post
    Respectfully, no matter what the "facts" are, in my opinion, he should have given a statement at the very beginning - something to the effect he's sorry for what the Martin family is going through at this time. He didn't need to say anything to indicate guilt. Just SHOW he had some compassion for a family who has lost their child. He should have done it before the death threats started and it's too late now. MOO.
    It is not too late. It is never too late to show compassion. From the small amount I know about this case I think he should be charged but I can't help but feel sorry for him. He could teach a class on how to turn public perception against you 101.

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  15. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
    Do we know how many times Trayvon has visited this community? Has it ever crossed our minds that maybe, while being scared and trying to get away from Zimmerman, Trayvon became disoriented? I've accidentally walked into other people's houses (more than once) when I had just moved to that location. It can take a while to get used to. Especially when all the homes looked exactly alike.
    Yes, that's certainly possible that he became lost. Since we don't know, and never will know now what was on his mind, it seems possible, even likely he was lost.

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  17. #535
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    Fyi

    Both Jane Velez-Mitchell and Nancy Grace will focus on the Trayvon Martin case tonight on their respective HLN programs. JVM is on at 7:00 EDT followed by NG at 8:00.

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  19. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrys View Post
    Have any proof he's not a racist?
    No previous history of racial profiling? No previous history of saying racial slurs?

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  21. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by LynnM View Post
    There were also witnesses which saw the two scuffling on the ground and witnesses who saw GZ on top of Trayvon. No one saw the initial assault. Zimmerman says TM attacked him but he could have grabbed Trayvon to detain him and Trayvon fought back.

    I told my daughter at that age to run away if she saw someone following her (which Travyon did) and if that person caught her to fight with all she had because the statistics show that if you are abducted, you are overwhelming likely to be killed. I told her to make her stand and not allow herself to be dragged into a car. My scenario of a frightened Trayvon defending himself seems more likely to me given that Trayvon ran away from GZ and TM's girlfriend says he told her that he was being followed by a suspicious person. Zimmerman's scenario has Trayvon running away and then changing his mind and wanting to fight where as GZ showed consistent concern that the 'suspicious' TM would get away. If you believe the girlfriend (I do), then she heard the first part of the confrontation in which TM asked "Why are you following me?" and GZ answered "Why are you here?" which doesn't sound like Martin had been sneaking up behind George which would have been hard to do since he was talking to the girlfriend the whole time, as confirmed by cell phone records. I believe it was about a minute later that Zimmerman shot TM.

    By the way, this is my first post here! I am so glad to find a civil discussion florum.
    Great first post and:

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  23. #538
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    When I see pictures of George volunteering with children and I see the organization he volunteered for... I may waiver a little bit. The whole thing about George passing out flyers after the Collison case, the timing of that information, is suspect at best. If that were true, it would have been revealed a lot sooner... like when it was revealed that he mentored black children.

    This same information came from the same person who was adament, at the very beginning, that George had NEVER followed Trayvon at all.

    MOO
    Justice for Trayvon

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  25. #539
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    How long had GZ observed TM before calling LE?
    According to this his call was initiated at 7:11 and five minutes later TM was shot.
    http://www.wtsp.com/news/florida/art...tin-timeline--

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  27. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by highflyer View Post
    Have you seen the site put up by Zimmerman? Read the quotes on it? Looked at the pictures? I did not consider that he was lacking in remorse until that came out.
    I wondered last night if he had mental issues. One would expect someone to express remorse even if it were for the sake of self preservation. Does he employ a back a**wards media relations person for negative press?
    I agree, but given his tenuous circumstances, is it possible his lawyer has him gagged as to anything that might appear to those who already assume him guilty as a confession? In other words, if somehow he is totally cleared and the fury from that dies down and he gives an interview to 60 Minutes and expresses remorse, regrets ever getting out of the truck, swears off guns...would that suffice?

    Ultimately, I agree his affect is off from what I would expect, but when watching crime shows with my wife, we've learned the obvious criminal isn't always THE criminal.

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  29. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
    When I see pictures of George volunteering with children and I see the organization he volunteered for... I may waiver a little bit. The whole thing about George passing out flyers after the Collison case, the timing of that information, is suspect at best. If that were true, it would have been revealed a lot sooner... like when it was revealed that he mentored black children.

    This same information came from the same person who was adament, at the very beginning, that George had NEVER followed Trayvon at all.

    MOO
    You think photos are being faked now?

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  31. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frydaddy View Post
    I agree, but given his tenuous circumstances, is it possible his lawyer has him gagged as to anything that might appear to those who already assume him guilty as a confession? In other words, if somehow he is totally cleared and the fury from that dies down and he gives an interview to 60 Minutes and expresses remorse, regrets ever getting out of the truck, swears off guns...would that suffice?

    Ultimately, I agree his affect is off from what I would expect, but when watching crime shows with my wife, we've learned the obvious criminal isn't always THE criminal.
    If his lawyer has that kind of power over what's on the site he would have advised GZ better (IMO) if he'd forbidden the site altogether.

    There were some comments that seemed like the lawyer wasn't quite happy with the site.

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  33. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    You think photos are being faked now?
    No, but if you volunteer to mentor children, there is usually pictures with the volunteer and the children. To mentor children, it's usually through a church or an organization. That way, the can make sure the children are safe with these mentors.

    I haven't seen any pictures of George with the children he had mentored. That is what I am saying and the reason I find it suspect.

    MOO

    ETA: What I am saying is that I do not believe George mentored children and I do not believe he passed out flyers during the Collison case. MOO
    Justice for Trayvon

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  35. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    You think photos are being faked now?
    There's Photos?

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  37. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    His family tells stories of him volunteering with Black children, and he was the lone hispanic man posting flyers in protest when a Black man was killed by a cop the year prior.

    I don't think a racist would do either of those things.
    I would like to hear the story from GZ's mouth.

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  39. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    No previous history of racial profiling? No previous history of saying racial slurs?
    Just curious, how would you or any of us know this, especially the no history of saying racial slurs part?

    That seems like kind of a stretch. How do you know he hasn't or doesn't use racial slurs?

    And there are those who may disagree about the profiling with all of his many 911 calls.

    JMHO

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  41. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
    I would like to hear the story from GZ's mouth.
    I don't want to hear what George has to say now... I want to see what he was saying the night of the shooting. Bring on the written statement/the recorded interview/and the walk-through they did the next day.

    Then we can hear what he has to say... now.

    MOO
    Justice for Trayvon

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  43. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHICANA View Post
    GZ had a license to carry, I didn't think it was confirmed that he was officially on NW duty when this occurred. I don't know that GZ was still following him either. I'm back to why TM attacked GZ in the first place ? If GZ had been following him that closely, TM would have known that GZ was on the phone with LE. Why didn't TM just wait for the cops to show up to report this injustice ? Unless he wanted to show GZ who the real man was ?
    There is no evidence available yet that indicates TM attacked GZ first.
    All my posts are MOO!

    Halt, face away from me and put the Occam's Razor on the ground now; put your hands on your head and interlace your fingers behind your head.

    "Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is the right thing to do."-Justice Potter Stewart, US Supreme Court Justice 1915-1985

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  45. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
    Clearly, from any point along that "back sidewalk", TM had the available time to walk or run to his home provided he was not stopped.

    Since I have been asked a reasonable question and have responded in kind, I would also like to ask a question which will explain, at least for myself, a great skepticism for the events of that evening as told by GZ and his agents.

    On April 4th, Robert Zimmerman and both of GZ's attorneys were interviewed on the Sean Hannity show. The following image is the route described as GZ having taken and the sequence of events they say happened between the starting point of being told by the 911 dispatcher "We do not need you to do that", and the end point of GZ supposedly being brutally beaten by TM.

    According to the transcript at:

    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannit...artin-shooting

    The sequence and travel path are as follows:





    Now to a couple of questions.

    -We know that GZ got out of his vehicle at point (1) to begin this walk at [2:08] into the 911 call. We have all heard even the door opening pings as he exits the vehicle.

    -We also know that the 911 dispatcher told GZ "we don't need you to do that" at [2:26] into the call which was 16 seconds after GZ started to follow TM. At a well document 3 mph walk rate for an adult male, in 16 seconds, he would have walked 80 feet to arrive at point (2).

    -We are being told that he continued walking straight ahead to the next street over at point (3) where he obtained an address.

    -We are then told that GZ started walking back to his vehicle until he reached the point where the sidewalks meet at point (4) to be brutally beaten by TM.

    Since the above post to which I'm commenting apparently has some level of experience with time/distance calculations, I would like to ask two questions.

    (a) Please feel free to double check in any scaled map reference that's preferred, but Google Earth plots the distance travelled from point (2) to point (4) as 243 feet.

    I couldn't help but notice that in analyzing TM's walk rate to his residence, a rate of 4 minutes per quarter of a mile was applied. Lets apply the same rate to this 243 feet and see how long it would have taken GZ to travel.

    .25 miles = 1,320 feet divided by 4 = 330 feet per minute. Since GZ only walked 243 feet, a quick ratio calculation tells us that the total time for GZ to go from point (2) to his brutal beating at point (4) would be 45 seconds.

    If we add this time of 45 seconds to his KNOWN beginning time of [2:26] into the 911 call, we are being told that George Zimmerman was being brutally beaten at [3:11], right?

    My first question....How was George Zimmerman able to retain his composure enough to continue to carry on his 911 call through this brutal attack in light of the fact that the call lasted four minutes and seven seconds?

    My last question....Since GZ has claimed justification in killing an unarmed 17 year old boy by pulling out his pistol and firing one shot into his chest, while being beaten at the point his father tells us the attack happened, how did the body wind up 100 feet away per SPD and SFD at point (5)?



    -
    Crazy! What was the time lapse: end of GZ's call to 911 to shot fired?

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  47. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
    No, but if you volunteer to mentor children, there is usually pictures with the volunteer and the children. To mentor children, it's usually through a church or an organization. That way, the can make sure the children are safe with these mentors.

    I haven't seen any pictures of George with the children he had mentored. That is what I am saying and the reason I find it suspect.

    MOO

    ETA: What I am saying is that I do not believe George mentored children and I do not believe he passed out flyers during the Collison case. MOO
    OK NM, I thought there were actual photos of him volunteering with kids.

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