Page 13 of 64 FirstFirst ... 3 11 12 13 14 15 23 63 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 955
  1. #181
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    7,815
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    And if defendant isn't guilty? Is that good too?
    It's up to the courts to decide.


  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Isabelle For This Useful Post:


  3. #182
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    22,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    With all due respect, that link does not say what you have asserted it says. Yes, Hornsby is quoted as questioning the SA's failure to address the SYG issue; it does not address burden of proof in an affirmative defense.

    We may expect a criminal defense attorney to argue that the defendant's word should be taken as fact unless clearly contradicted, but a prosecutor will just as certainly argue otherwise.
    With all do respect, that's how it works because of SYG in FL.

    "That’s not the case in Florida, where a legal provision prohibits police from prosecuting and even arresting an individual who claims a “justifiable homicide” under the “stand your ground” law, Rolnick said. The burden of proof in Florida lies with the prosecution, she said."

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...erates-nevada/
    Just my opinion


  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jjenny For This Useful Post:


  5. #183
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Paradise AKA San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,230
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Even if the investigation was done, I am not so sure it should have resulted in an arrest and a charge. For prosecution to convict Zimmerman, they will have to prove Zimmerman did not act in self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don't see anything in that arrest affidavit that indicates prosecution got the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.

    "The moment George Zimmerman fired that shot is the key question in this entire case," Hornsby said. "Did he reasonably believe he had to fire that shot to defend himself? And the fact (Corey) completely left that out, begs the question, does she not have any evidence to refute his version of the events?"
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...ned/?tag=stack
    As has been stated here before, the prosecution does not have to lay out their entire case in the probable cause affidavit. Probable cause is just that, probable cause.

    I believe she does have evidence to refute his version of events. Just because she didn't include it in the affidavit doesn't mean it doesn't exist. JMO.
    Be kind, for everyone is fighting a great battle.


  6. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to IzzyBlanche For This Useful Post:


  7. #184
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    22,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
    It's up to the courts to decide.
    So we should put a not guilty person on trial just because of public pressure? Is that what you are saying?
    Just my opinion


  8. #185
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    10,442
    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense"]Affirmative defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/a...-self-defense/

    Angela Corey mentioned several times that self-defense is an "affirmative defense" under Florida law. She also said that "Stand Your Ground" is "a tough affirmative defense to overcome." It will be "tough" for the prosecution because although Zimmerman has to introduce some evidence that he acted in self-defense,


  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Elley Mae For This Useful Post:


  10. #186
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    22,067
    This really doesn't apply to this case because of SYG law in FL. The burden of proof in FL will be on the prosecution.
    Just my opinion


  11. #187
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    19,014
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    There is a blog that explains it really well but apparently it can not be linked to.
    But prosecution will have burden of proof, not the other way around, if this gets to trial.

    "Then the burden would be on prosecutors to prove Zimmerman is guilty “beyond a reasonable doubt” — a tougher standard than preponderance of the evidence."

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...#ixzz1s3dENyVL
    Let me grant you that the NY Post article does indeed say what you are asserting. I don't necessarily believe that is correct.

    I admit I know about affirmative defenses under California law. The "justifiable homicide" defense mentioned in the Post article would be such a defense and the burden would fall on Zimmerman.

    Let me see if I can find some reference to a Florida exception to that principle.


  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Nova For This Useful Post:


  13. #188
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,026
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    You are talking about a different thing. Zimmerman can request a hearing where he has a burden of proof by preponderance of evidence. If judge doesn't feel Zimmerman has met his burden of proof the case will go to trial, in which prosecution will have the burden of proof. This hearing is an extra protection for Zimmerman and the judge can find Zimmerman immune from prosecution if Zimmerman meets his burden of proof there. But it's not a trial.
    Well, true, it's not the same as the actual trial where the state has to prove he committed the crime of 2nd degree murder.

    But, if GZ requests and has the hearing on SYG defense and loses and goes to trial, that defense is out and the prosecutor handles the trial as usual to prove the crime he is charged with. The prosecutor does not have to prove or disprove SYG in the trial because it is no longer an allowable defense.


  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Reader For This Useful Post:


  15. #189
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,932
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    So we should put a not guilty person on trial just because of public pressure? Is that what you are saying?
    How do you know he's not guilty?

    Because he said so?

    What else was he going to say other than it was all self defense?


  16. The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to annalia For This Useful Post:


  17. #190
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    19,014
    Quote Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
    Hadn't he already called 911 twice? Didn't the police arrive at the scene within minutes or less of when the shot was fired? Honestly, when I first heard that witness saying he asked her to call 911 I asked myself why he would to that. SPD was already well on their way.
    IIRC, he had called the SPD on their non-911 line. But regardless, he knew an ambulance was now needed, not just the police. He should have called back. (But I am open to the possibility that everything happened so fast that GZ wasn't able to collect his wits.)


  18. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Nova For This Useful Post:


  19. #191
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    7,815
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    So we should put a not guilty person on trial just because of public pressure? Is that what you are saying?
    How are you so sure there is no guilt here? What if GZ was truly guilty? I don't get what you are trying to say? Should we take GZ's word alone and be done with the case? No thorough investigation? What about the detective that wanted to arrest and charge GZ? So, you are saying, that anyone that kills another can can they did it in self defense and that should be the end of it. I don't think so!

    ETA: the majority of those incarcerated will tell you that they are not guilty!


  20. The Following 20 Users Say Thank You to Isabelle For This Useful Post:


  21. #192
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    7,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    IIRC, he had called the SPD on their non-911 line. But regardless, he knew an ambulance was now needed, not just the police. He should have called back. (But I am open to the possibility that everything happened so fast that GZ wasn't able to collect his wits.)
    Difficult to think when in a rage!


  22. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Isabelle For This Useful Post:


  23. #193
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    19,014
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    With all do respect, that's how it works because of SYG in FL.

    "That’s not the case in Florida, where a legal provision prohibits police from prosecuting and even arresting an individual who claims a “justifiable homicide” under the “stand your ground” law, Rolnick said. The burden of proof in Florida lies with the prosecution, she said."

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...erates-nevada/
    jenny, I'll allow there is considerable confusion over the SYG law. Most have described it as badly written. But we still have to consider the sources when we invoke these links.

    The link you reference above is a panel discussion in Nevada by activists who are opposed to SYG in principle. 1. I'm not sure they are actually experts on the law; 2. they may be expected to present the law's ramifications in the worst possible light.


  24. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Nova For This Useful Post:


  25. #194
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    22,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Let me grant you that the NY Post article does indeed say what you are asserting. I don't necessarily believe that is correct.

    I admit I know about affirmative defenses under California law. The "justifiable homicide" defense mentioned in the Post article would be such a defense and the burden would fall on Zimmerman.

    Let me see if I can find some reference to a Florida exception to that principle.
    Ca is different from FL because of SYG law.

    At trial, the burden of proof will be on prosecution. Prosecutor will have to prove Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.

    "Only then can she take the case to a jury, in front of which she will face a high legal burden to prove that the killing wasn't in self-defense."
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/n...0#.T4oA9dnwGSo
    Just my opinion


  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jjenny For This Useful Post:


  27. #195
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,103
    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    I totally agree with you. Chit happens. I think the only reason people question TM's dad that night is because that very day Trayvon was suspended for 10 days and for the third time. So some might wonder why the kid was even allowed out the door that night. And why dad just assumed he went to the movies. He was suspended that day and they had no problem with him going off to the movies, with out asking or telling anyone, after telling his kid brother he was going off to get him candy? I am not bashing, just explaining why some might wonder about it. If my 17 yr old says I am coming right back with candy, and I am just walking to the store, then I don't go to bed assuming everything is fine, if he never comes back that night. I know a few people will yell at me for asking these questions, but I am responding to a post in which the questions were already asked.

    Your friends son was in his own hometown, so it made more sense that he had found a ride with a friend somewhere. And he wasnt grounded.
    JMO If GZ had had more guidance in his life, a more sensible nature we wouldn't even be discussing the death of a kid walking home. I lay the blame at the feet of GZ. The man who was suppose to watch out for his neighbors, the man who took on that responsibility. The one who knew better- not the kid who was walking down the sidewalk. The man who followed a kid in the dark in the rain. IMO JMO MOO The man named GZ who got to graduate HS, marry, live in a home with his wife. Attend classes.. All that taken away from Trayvon because GZ thought he was walking around looking up to no good. IMO JMO MOO This man GZ took it upon himself to be the judge and the jury... of a kid walking in the rain.
    Justice for Caylee

    "We have a different stage. We have the same actress," Sheaffer said.


  28. The Following 21 Users Say Thank You to octobermoon For This Useful Post:


Page 13 of 64 FirstFirst ... 3 11 12 13 14 15 23 63 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #21
    By imamaze in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 1211
    Last Post: 04-11-2012, 04:40 PM
  2. 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #20
    By ynotdivein in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 946
    Last Post: 04-10-2012, 05:58 PM
  3. 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19
    By imamaze in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 1058
    Last Post: 04-09-2012, 07:05 PM
  4. 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17
    By imamaze in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 897
    Last Post: 04-06-2012, 08:24 AM
  5. 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #9
    By ynotdivein in forum George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads
    Replies: 1763
    Last Post: 03-29-2012, 08:17 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •