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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Why is that surprising? I think it's rather obvious the reason Zimmerman was arrested is because of public pressure.
    Then it's a shame it had to take public pressure to bring about what should have been done to begin with.


    "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
    -Martin Luther King, Jr.





  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Well I believe I am correct.
    I've yet to see any link that says I am not. No one has provided any links that say burden of proof will be on Zimmerman if this gets to trial. The msm articles say burden of proof is on prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt.
    I think the whole issue here is the phrase "burden of proof". If I understand this correctly, the SYG immunity hearing, the burden shifts to the defense to proof he was SYG'ing. If immunity is denied and this goes to trial, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution. HOWEVER.....IF GZ is offering an affirmative defense such as self defense or SYG defense he will have to offer evidence to support that defense.

    I'm not sure this link will be allowed, but this is from the Cornell Law school online dictionary of legal terms.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/affirmative_defense



    Affirmative defense

    A defense in which the defendant introduces evidence, which, if found to be credible, will negate criminal or civil liability, even if it is proven that the defendant committed the alleged acts. Self-defense, entrapment, insanity, and necessity are some examples of affirmative defenses. See, e.g. Beach v. Ocwen Fed. Bank, 523 U.S. 410 (1998).


    Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary


    August 19, 2010, 5:10 pm

    IMO and all that
    imo, jmo, imho and all that stuff


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  4. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steft50 View Post
    I think the whole issue here is the phrase "burden of proof". If I understand this correctly, the SYG immunity hearing, the burden shifts to the defense to proof he was SYG'ing. If immunity is denied and this goes to trial, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution. HOWEVER.....IF GZ is offering an affirmative defense such as self defense or SYG defense he will have to offer evidence to support that defense.

    I'm not sure this link will be allowed, but this is from the Cornell Law school online dictionary of legal terms.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/affirmative_defense



    Affirmative defense

    A defense in which the defendant introduces evidence, which, if found to be credible, will negate criminal or civil liability, even if it is proven that the defendant committed the alleged acts. Self-defense, entrapment, insanity, and necessity are some examples of affirmative defenses. See, e.g. Beach v. Ocwen Fed. Bank, 523 U.S. 410 (1998).


    Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary


    August 19, 2010, 5:10 pm

    IMO and all that
    Yes Steft. GZ can still assert SYG at trial, but the prosecution need only prove the elements of the crime. A defendant still has the burden to prove he acted in self-defense.


    "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
    -Martin Luther King, Jr.




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  6. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
    Frank Taaffe gets it right at 1:42 in this video. Wonder if that was his nickname for old George.

    Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman's Neighbor Speaks Out - YouTube
    Oh Dr. Fessel, PLEASE, PLEASE make Frank Taaffe go away!!!!
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere!" MLK, Jr.



  7. #230
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    is it correct that the gf was subpoenaed to the GJ that didn't happen? If so, was it Corey who issued the subpoena? Anyone know off the top of their head? TIA


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  9. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
    Frank Taaffe gets it right at 1:42 in this video. Wonder if that was his nickname for old George.

    Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman's Neighbor Speaks Out - YouTube
    JMO but it's strange that FT kinda lets it be understood that when they spoke on the phone after TM's death GZ shared with him that he had stopped a burglary in FT's house and what happened with the alleged perp. If they're such good friends wouldn't they have already dealt with all of that when it happened?


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  11. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velouria View Post
    Yes Steft. GZ can still assert SYG at trial, but the prosecution need only prove the elements of the crime. A defendant still has the burden to prove he acted in self-defense.
    Yes, but what isn't clear is how high is the defendant's burden? Is merely asserting self-defense (either through the defendant's direct testimony or by his attorney's interpretation of other evidence) sufficient? Some passages in the Florida statutes suggest merely claiming self-defense may be enough to put the burden back onto the prosecution.


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  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steft50 View Post
    I think the whole issue here is the phrase "burden of proof". If I understand this correctly, the SYG immunity hearing, the burden shifts to the defense to proof he was SYG'ing. If immunity is denied and this goes to trial, the "burden of proof" is on the prosecution. HOWEVER.....IF GZ is offering an affirmative defense such as self defense or SYG defense he will have to offer evidence to support that defense.

    I'm not sure this link will be allowed, but this is from the Cornell Law school online dictionary of legal terms.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/affirmative_defense



    Affirmative defense

    A defense in which the defendant introduces evidence, which, if found to be credible, will negate criminal or civil liability, even if it is proven that the defendant committed the alleged acts. Self-defense, entrapment, insanity, and necessity are some examples of affirmative defenses. See, e.g. Beach v. Ocwen Fed. Bank, 523 U.S. 410 (1998).


    Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary


    August 19, 2010, 5:10 pm

    IMO and all that
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    Beautifully explained. Succinct.



    btw, the cornell website you linked is a fantastic source. it was one of the first links that we were told to bookmark in college! i still use it all the time. a wealth of info on that site.
    WEBSLEUTHS ON FACEBOOK


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  15. #234
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    Just got back home. Thank you Grandmaj for all your hard work and research on Trayvon's girlfriend. I thought the phone record was hers. It really changes things having her call 911 on 3/2/2012, 4 days after Trayvon was killed.

    I hope and pray she is kept out of the media spotlight, and others (not speaking of here at WS) respect that she is a victim and a minor. I can't imagine how she feels. Poor thing. My heart breaks for her.



  16. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    I've already posted links.
    Here is one with quotes from Richard Hornsby. I really hope his stops by here and explains it once and for all.

    "The moment George Zimmerman fired that shot is the key question in this entire case," Hornsby said. "Did he reasonably believe he had to fire that shot to defend himself? And the fact (Corey) completely left that out, begs the question, does she not have any evidence to refute his version of the events?"

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...ned/?tag=stack
    I do like Richard Hornsby I too wish he would drop in and help us understand this law and how it works.

    And Richard if you do drop by.....
    my question to you is would you have taken on this case if asked to?


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  18. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    JMO but it's strange that FT kinda lets it be understood that when they spoke on the phone after TM's death GZ shared with him that he had stopped a burglary in FT's house and what happened with the alleged perp. If they're such good friends wouldn't they have already dealt with all of that when it happened?
    The phone call he is referring to happened last Monday. 6 weeks after the shooting and over 2 months since that report he is referring too.


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  20. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Yes, but what isn't clear is how high is the defendant's burden? Is merely asserting self-defense (either through the defendant's direct testimony or by his attorney's interpretation of other evidence) sufficient? Some passages in the Florida statutes suggest merely claiming self-defense may be enough to put the burden back onto the prosecution.
    This is the part I don't get. If I were a juror I wouldn't take the word of either side without evidence to back it up. Example: GZ can claim self defense till the stars fall down but if he can't show me some evidence to support that I'm not buying it. Same with the prosecution....they've charged murder 2, but if they can't show me in the form of evidence why this is murder 2 (or anything lessor that may be in the instructions) then I'm not going to buy it from them either. That is just me though. Right now the evidence I am seeing puts some serious doubt into the self defense and GZ's version (or at least his families version) of what happened.

    IMO and all that
    imo, jmo, imho and all that stuff


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  22. #238
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    I know I saw Taffee's original comments which was a little milder about that event, then we are hearing now. Anyone have the link to his first interview?


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  24. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandmaj View Post
    I know I saw Taffee's original comments which was a little milder about that event, then we are hearing now. Anyone have the link to his first interview?
    Hopefully they are online somewhere. I've DVR'd every program about Trayvon (even including Oliver and Taaffe both (gagging)), but I swear I wouldn't be able to sit through all of his nonsense again but you are right, he's definitely changed his tune in each and every interview, getting a little more overdramatic each time.



    ~jmo~


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  26. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrienne37 View Post
    Hopefully they are online somewhere. I've DVR'd every program about Trayvon (even including Oliver and Taaffe both (gagging)), but I swear I wouldn't be able to sit through all of his nonsense again but you are right, he's definitely changed his tune in each and every interview, getting a little more overdramatic each time.



    ~jmo~
    AND more annoying! LOL!
    Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.
    We are all just trying to make sense of an unimaginable crime.



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