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  1. #31
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    While this was a small gym and one dedicated to martial arts, when I think of gyms I think of steroids and when I think of steroids I think of 'roid rage and when I think of 'roid rage, I think of brutal beatings.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillwatersc View Post
    Children can be very heavy sleepers. Maybe the boys slept through all of it.
    One of the articles I read said that authorities believed the murders had happened about 24 hours before. That is a long time to sleep. If they had been asleep when it happened, would they have got up seen their parents and sister and waited a while before going to the school?
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post
    One of the articles I read said that authorities believed the murders had happened about 24 hours before. That is a long time to sleep. If they had been asleep when it happened, would they have got up seen their parents and sister and waited a while before going to the school?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ene-loose.html

    I can't find a quote about the 24 hours. It appears something was still going on early Monday morning - neighbors say they heard gunshots, a man yelling and a child crying (and they roll over & go back to sleep???). The boys could have been hiding and afraid to come out. The article also says the child was 'in shock'. I don't know how that would affect his actions or ability to think clearly. What happens to a person 'in shock'?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillwatersc View Post
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ene-loose.html

    I can't find a quote about the 24 hours. It appears something was still going on early Monday morning - neighbors say they heard gunshots, a man yelling and a child crying (and they roll over & go back to sleep???). The boys could have been hiding and afraid to come out. The article also says the child was 'in shock'. I don't know how that would affect his actions or ability to think clearly. What happens to a person 'in shock'?
    I found it in a couple of articles, here is one

    The 9-year-old boy, as well as a 4-year-old boy found at the bloody crime scene, were taken into custody by child welfare officials. A source said the shell-shocked children might have been in the home with their dead family members for more than 24 hours.
    http://www.lvrj.com/news/police-boy-...148004695.html
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillwatersc View Post
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ene-loose.html

    I can't find a quote about the 24 hours. It appears something was still going on early Monday morning - neighbors say they heard gunshots, a man yelling and a child crying (and they roll over & go back to sleep???). The boys could have been hiding and afraid to come out. The article also says the child was 'in shock'. I don't know how that would affect his actions or ability to think clearly. What happens to a person 'in shock'?
    Yeah that works better in a scenario where it was the father. If he had raped the daughter, fought with the mother and killed her and the daughter he may have been on a rampage for a good while. Their deaths could have made him worse, because he knew he would be in trouble. But eventually he may have calmed/ran out of steam. He could have been in a suicidal mode, but what to do about the boys? Or he could have been working on an explanation. At that point he may have come up with a story he thought he could use. Send the kid for help or send him to school.

    Since the child went to school, IMO I think he may have told the kid not to tell and made plans to dispose of the bodies.

    I've been thinking more about the smuggler/intruder possibility, and I just can't see that as what happened. It took too long, too many live witnesses.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  6. #36
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    sure hasn't been much news coverage on this one. I am sort of surprised by that.

    Inside the boxing school Arturo Martinez ran, the lights remain dark. The landlord of the property says police came and asked him to unlock the doors. He was asked to remain outside while they looked through the building.

    The landlord says they were there for a few hours and removed the money and a computer. They also asked him to not let anyone on property until further notice. Thick, silver chains and several padlocks are now in place.

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/176963...le-murder-case
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post
    Yeah that works better in a scenario where it was the father. If he had raped the daughter, fought with the mother and killed her and the daughter he may have been on a rampage for a good while. Their deaths could have made him worse, because he knew he would be in trouble. But eventually he may have calmed/ran out of steam. He could have been in a suicidal mode, but what to do about the boys? Or he could have been working on an explanation. At that point he may have come up with a story he thought he could use. Send the kid for help or send him to school.

    Since the child went to school, IMO I think he may have told the kid not to tell and made plans to dispose of the bodies.

    I've been thinking more about the smuggler/intruder possibility, and I just can't see that as what happened. It took too long, too many live witnesses.
    I am not sure but I thought the father was unconscious? And that police still could not question him as much as a few days later?
    Just my opinion, of course.

  8. #38
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    hollyblue is offline It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen that lays the eggs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby2 View Post
    Maybe there was no phone?
    Quote Originally Posted by stillwatersc View Post
    The perp(s) could have taken the phone(s).

    Could be. I am just baffled why neither child would seek help...like running next door if they had no phone--- unless they were taught not to talk too much with outsiders/strangers. Or they were scared of the neighbors?

    The father is the bio dad of the girl..right?

  9. #39
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    I am thinking fear kept the boys hidden while mom, dad and sis were being attacked. Eventually, when it felt safe, the older of the two boys realized dad was not in shape t be much help to them. in shock himself, he went to school on autopilot. He goes there regularly, it is known and familiar, possibly even the routineness of the walk offered some comfort to a chaotic mind.

    Still withholding judgment that dad is guilty of anything save living through something horrific his wife and daughter did not?
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    I am not sure but I thought the father was unconscious? And that police still could not question him as much as a few days later?
    Yeah that is another puzzler. This article is from Monday, April 23, 2012

    Surviving victim in grisly crime improves, but he still is unable to communicate, police say
    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...me-improves-s/

    They have upgraded his condition to stable, but he is still unable to communicate. They don't say if he is concious or not.
    Last edited by mysteriew; 04-25-2012 at 05:48 PM.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight


  11. #41
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    hollyblue is offline It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen that lays the eggs.
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    You would think they could rule out the father by semen or touch DNA. With bludgeoning, and that much blood their would have to prints within the blood somewhere. Sounds like a child molester was the "motive"...whoever it may be.

    Wonder if the older child came home from school the day before and found the scene? Maybe 4 yr old was playing outside or down the street with friends and was missed or unknown?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollyblue View Post
    You would think they could rule out the father by semen or touch DNA. With bludgeoning, and that much blood their would have to prints within the blood somewhere. Sounds like a child molester was the "motive"...whoever it may be.

    Wonder if the older child came home from school the day before and found the scene? Maybe 4 yr old was playing outside or down the street with friends and was missed or unknown?
    It will take time for DNA to come back. It could be anywhere from 10 days to 6 weeks depending on how busy the lab is. Fingerprints and shoe prints will be faster. I would guess that LE knows by now if he was involved. But they probably won't say until they have a chance to talk with him.

    I did see in the lvrj article that he is in protective custody, whatever that means.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  13. #43
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    hollyblue is offline It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen that lays the eggs.
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    Just wanted to clear up my previous post...as I refreshed this case, it was between Sunday morning and Monday morning...so he couldn't have returned from school to find them, but maybe both of children were outside or elsewhere (someone took them to church?) and came back and discovered them?

    They do say the mother and daughter were killed with a hammer.

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/175893...ctim-was-raped

  14. #44
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    Etilema is offline Being kind to the cruel results in being cruel to the kind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post
    Yeah that works better in a scenario where it was the father. If he had raped the daughter, fought with the mother and killed her and the daughter he may have been on a rampage for a good while. Their deaths could have made him worse, because he knew he would be in trouble. But eventually he may have calmed/ran out of steam. He could have been in a suicidal mode, but what to do about the boys? Or he could have been working on an explanation. At that point he may have come up with a story he thought he could use. Send the kid for help or send him to school.

    Since the child went to school, IMO I think he may have told the kid not to tell and made plans to dispose of the bodies.

    I've been thinking more about the smuggler/intruder possibility, and I just can't see that as what happened. It took too long, too many live witnesses.
    Can someone actually bludgeon himself to the point of not being able to communicate? And what about the weapon? Earlier it was said they hadn't found it. I would think it would have to be pretty close to where the father bludgeoned himself, if that were the case?

    Just speculating.


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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post
    It will take time for DNA to come back. It could be anywhere from 10 days to 6 weeks depending on how busy the lab is. Fingerprints and shoe prints will be faster. I would guess that LE knows by now if he was involved. But they probably won't say until they have a chance to talk with him.

    I did see in the lvrj article that he is in protective custody, whatever that means.
    Officer on duty at the hospital.

    Any speculations on the neighbor's report of the father walking out of the house with LE and then collasping? Not taken by ambulance but by LE..as he was taken into custody.

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