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Thread: Weekend Discussion thread 04/21-24/2012

  1. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macright View Post
    small school population just like many in my area...therefore small parking lots...JMO and I would imagine a lot of those kids either were picked up by parents or walked home (if they were older) on their own...kids can only use a school bus if they live XXX ## of miles from school...I am sure that rule applies to most places in Ontario.....as a rule is a rule.... just saying.......JMO
    Did you look at the pictures I posted on the previous page of what it looks like at dismissal time?

    Very easy...probably the most easy layout for picking up students at a school that I've ever seen.

    MOO

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  3. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    people didn't on April 8th when VS was lead away by TLM....
    Because she wasn't pushed into the back seat of that funky painted car right in front of the school.

    Has there been any testimony as to where exactly TLM was standing when she met up with Victoria?

    MOO

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  5. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    people didn't on April 8th when VS was lead away by TLM....
    Other than the one lady they walked by, who said she did not recognize TLM. Most wouldn't be alarmed by an 18 year old girl walking with an 8 year old girl. However they may be alarmed had someone seen TS get into MR car....

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  7. #554
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    I'm surprised no one has picked up on why there also may be a lot more activity Than normal around the school at the time the google car was gathering photos for street view.

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  9. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFB73 View Post
    Other than the one lady they walked by, who said she did not recognize TLM. Most wouldn't be alarmed by an 18 year old girl walking with an 8 year old girl. However they may be alarmed had someone seen TS get into MR car....
    the length of time that it took LE to arrest her on related charges tells me that she did not recognize who TLM was.

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  11. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    The way I see it TLM was seen on video kidnapping VS and she believed that she just failed the lie detector test, that may i add investigators testified interviewing MR for information to use in that test ... The one and only way out of a 1st degree murder charge was to play the naive girl intimidated by her lover and implicate MR. She was first charged as an accessory, so it almost worked. It wasn't until MR was arrested and her interview with detective Smyth approx ten days later that her charges were upgraded to first degree murder. So I do not believe for one moment that she confessed because it was the right thing to do.*

    Side note: TLM testified *ďI said that I would take the fall for everything, that I would say it was all me. He had more to lose than I did. He had a life, a job, things going for him and I had nothing.Ē. *Now how could she if MR raped VS ... TLM could not take the fall for that...so I doubt that statement would have gave him any comfort ... But it would have made her look like the vulnerable naive girl she was trying to portray.*

    *
    It was my impression that when TLM first confessed, she didn't mention a sexual assault. The sexual assault charge wasn't laid until a year later. It sounds to me like she first denied everything, then admitted some involvement, then said MR committed the murder, then added the sexual assault story around the time she plead guilty, then, in January, said that she committed the murder.

    JMO
    The truth does not cease to exist because it is ignored. ~ Aldous Huxley

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  13. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    the length of time that it took LE to arrest her on related charges tells me that she did not recognize who TLM was.
    Hmmmm 4 days?? That's not too long at all. I wonder how many other people were brought in on outstanding arrest warrants for "minor" charges in the four days after the biggest police activity in the history of Woodstock?

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  15. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFB73 View Post
    I'm surprised no one has picked up on why there also may be a lot more activity Than normal around the school at the time the google car was gathering photos for street view.
    Yes it didn't escape me. That was within a month or so after Victoria went missing. And there probably would have been even more parents picking up their children out of fear. And yet still there appeared to be very little traffic.

    MOO

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  17. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    Did you look at the pictures I posted on the previous page of what it looks like at dismissal time?

    Very easy...probably the most easy layout for picking up students at a school that I've ever seen.

    MOO

    actually I don't bother with pictures...I am familiar with areas around school having done the school run for many years...I know what a scene looks like and I also know as I previously stated why parents try and avoid a crowded parking lot and move further along...maybe the next place to park was also full of those parents that won't park at the school so that is why MR moved on to the home area...funny though one would think he would have been worried about camera's at that home because I would think they would have them considering all the drugs that they would have in there... Just saying... JMO also most area's around a school have a very slow speed and at least where I live there is usually a cop in the area to enforce that speed limit...just saying......

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  19. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alethea Dice View Post
    It was my impression that when TLM first confessed, she didn't mention a sexual assault. The sexual assault charge wasn't laid until a year later. It sounds to me like she first denied everything, then admitted some involvement, then said MR committed the murder, then added the sexual assault story around the time she plead guilty, then, in January, said that she committed the murder.

    JMO
    http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/201...-trial-120321/

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  21. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alethea Dice View Post
    It was my impression that when TLM first confessed, she didn't mention a sexual assault. The sexual assault charge wasn't laid until a year later. It sounds to me like she first denied everything, then admitted some involvement, then said MR committed the murder, then added the sexual assault story around the time she plead guilty, then, in January, said that she committed the murder.

    JMO
    She told Det Smyth about the sexual assault during her formal interview on May 24th, 2009 I believe. So that aspect has been in play since the very beginning.

    MOO

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  23. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macright View Post
    actually I don't bother with pictures...I am familiar with areas around school having done the school run for many years...I know what a scene looks like and I also know as I previously stated why parents try and avoid a crowded parking lot and move further along...maybe the next place to park was also full of those parents that won't park at the school so that is why MR moved on to the home area...funny though one would think he would have been worried about camera's at that home because I would think they would have them considering all the drugs that they would have in there... Just saying... JMO also most area's around a school have a very slow speed and at least where I live there is usually a cop in the area to enforce that speed limit...just saying......
    Do you have any experience with the school in question? Speculation on other schools isn't helpful IMO. That's why I posted the pictures. You can clearly see what the traffic was like around dismissal time at the ACTUAL school we're talking about in those pictures. And it was very mininimal. Which is perhaps why he chose that school.

    MOO

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  25. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    She told Det Smyth about the sexual assault during her formal interview on May 24th, 2009 I believe. So that aspect has been in play since the very beginning.

    MOO
    I hadn't watched the entire interview. Couldn't make it through it. I'll try to find some time later. I wonder why the sexual assault charge wasn't laid until a year later then?
    The truth does not cease to exist because it is ignored. ~ Aldous Huxley

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  27. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    Do you have any experience with the school in question? Speculation on other schools isn't helpful IMO. That's why I posted the pictures. You can clearly see what the traffic was like around dismissal time at the ACTUAL school we're talking about in those pictures. And it was very mininimal. Which is perhaps why he chose that school.

    MOO
    to answer your question...no not this particular school but I am now going to move on with this issue as you can only beat a horse so much and one ends up going around in circles.. ..I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one okay...respectfully...JMO

  28. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macright View Post
    actually I don't bother with pictures...I am familiar with areas around school having done the school run for many years...I know what a scene looks like and I also know as I previously stated why parents try and avoid a crowded parking lot and move further along...maybe the next place to park was also full of those parents that won't park at the school so that is why MR moved on to the home area...funny though one would think he would have been worried about camera's at that home because I would think they would have them considering all the drugs that they would have in there... Just saying... JMO also most area's around a school have a very slow speed and at least where I live there is usually a cop in the area to enforce that speed limit...just saying......

    Fyfe isn't really a street where you can get up to great speeds on, no need for police to setup speed traps in that school zone... But they do in a couple other school zones in the city, but nothing like I've seen in some USA cities where they actually have police there during dismissal times etc where the speed limit changes during school dissmisal times.

    That retirement/nursing home was built in a time when cameras were not considered to be needed, I remember going there to visit relatives as a child and that was over 30 years ago, I'm sure they've been added inside the building and on doors, but not sure about any cameras on the parking lots etc... Obviously those could be seen if there were any.

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  30. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alethea Dice View Post
    I hadn't watched the entire interview. Couldn't make it through it. I'll try to find some time later. I wonder why the sexual assault charge wasn't laid until a year later then?
    It may have been but we just didn't hear about it because of the publication ban.

    MOO

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  32. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alethea Dice View Post
    It was my impression that when TLM first confessed, she didn't mention a sexual assault. The sexual assault charge wasn't laid until a year later. It sounds to me like she first denied everything, then admitted some involvement, then said MR committed the murder, then added the sexual assault story around the time she plead guilty, then, in January, said that she committed the murder.

    JMO
    She admitted the sexual assault during her polygraph, which I believe was 5/19/09. She went into detail at the videotaped confession on 5/24/2009. JMO

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  34. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFB73 View Post
    Tour down Francis street on your "streetview"
    Pretty sad really, then if you hop on over to Tennyson there is a police car in the driveway at MR's moms. I wonder if it was just a coincidence that the streets were photographed for Streetview at that time.
    ♥♥♥ In Memory of Tori ♥♥♥

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  36. #569
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    Regarding parking his car in front of OS public school, if MR had no intention of picking up VS that day, why would he park in front of the school?

    We don't know what happened that day, so it is possible that TLM asked if she could take the ride to Guelph with him, and asked him to meet her at the CC parking lot.

    Maybe he arrived early and decided to get some gas, or go looking for TLM and that is why he is seen driving around.

    Perhaps TLM was coming from somewhere in that area........selling drugs, visiting a relative or friend,...........it's possible.

    TLM could have been angry about something, saw VS coming out of the school, and picked up with her there...........telling MR the babysitting story when she arrived at the CC parking lot.

    JMO..........

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  38. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macright View Post
    I still think that there is a dark cloud hanging over the head of another player in all this...JMO
    perfectly put ... IMO

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  40. #571
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    If TLM told VS they were going to see TLM's dog, how did TLM get VS to go to the car in the parking lot and get in..........without a big struggle?

    Did she drag VS to the car? Did VS fight with her?

    All I recall TLM saying is that she "pushed" VS into the car.

    The would mean VS was at the side of the car with the door open.........but how did TLM get VS into that position..........without telling her some kind of story about babysitting at the least?

    TLM's testimony doesn't add up here...........and the Crown didn't pursue it for some reason.

    The Crown hasn't pursued a lot of things, in this trial.

    IMO............JMO

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  42. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyL View Post
    perfectly put ... IMO
    I'm at a loss, as to this. Maybe someone wants to state their speculation. IMO, it would be an interesting read, at the very least. From what I've come to see with all the reality shows about crime - anything is possible.

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  44. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezbel View Post
    Maybe I should have been clearer, not saying that they actually knew each other, but that maybe MR knew more about TM then he let on
    Just like he didn't really know TLM during that May 15th interview with LE at his mother's house. Hmmm.
    RIP Tim. Justice will prevail

    RIP sweet Tori.

    May 15/12, Michael Rafferty guilty; 25 years with no chance of parole. R.I.H. P.O.S.

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  46. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    I believe the crown has six months to amend


    The Crown prosecutor has six months after conviction to initiate the DO hearing. The Crown must show the offender is a serious threat to the safety of others. This usually means establishing a history of violent crime, and indifference by the offender as to the consequences of past behaviour. Related behaviour can be considered, but in practice there usually must be a history of extremely violent, brutal behaviour. The majority (85 per cent) of DOs have been convicted of a sexual assault crime.

    http://www.trickey.ca/trick's_law_12...sentencing.doc
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardy View Post
    Regarding parking his car in front of OS public school, if MR had no intention of picking up VS that day, why would he park in front of the school?

    We don't know what happened that day, so it is possible that TLM asked if she could take the ride to Guelph with him, and asked him to meet her at the CC parking lot.

    Maybe he arrived early and decided to get some gas, or go looking for TLM and that is why he is seen driving around.

    Perhaps TLM was coming from somewhere in that area........selling drugs, visiting a relative or friend,...........it's possible.

    TLM could have been angry about something, saw VS coming out of the school, and picked up with her there...........telling MR the babysitting story when she arrived at the CC parking lot.

    JMO..........
    I believe TLM just started walking in the same direction and casually brought up the dog conversation. She may have said, "I have my dog in the car if you want to see it?". Tori was heading that way anyway and probably thought, why not? MR passed them and knew they were on the way. He probably had the door open, ingnition running and off they went. Rather simple, really. JMO

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  48. #575
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    Unless the Crown is waiting for the last minute to pull a rabbit out of the hat, I think (IMO) that what he didnít ask his witnesses is as significant as what he did.

    So many people have expressed concern for the women MTR contacted and dated. The Crown questioned at least a dozen (roughly), correct? If he didnít ask them whether or not they had children, I assume that they didnít. If they did, he would have wanted to drive that point home (that MTR deliberately chose single moms). From what I have read, it was actually a small minority of them who had kids. Of the seven on the stand on April 13, only two testified to having children. One of these, (SL, age 50) he never even met in person.

    More importantly, he didnít ask even one of these women if they had so much as an inkling of suspicion that MTR was unduly interested in her child(ren) in an inappropriate way. This was his chance and he didnít ask. Why not? Because he knew that the answer would be negative and would not establish any such predilection in the accused.

    It is MOO that MTR had no history of pedophilia. The Crown had three years to try find some evidence of this and the opportunity to bring the juryís attention to it seems to have passed. There is only TLMís dubious word that MTR had any sexual interest in children. As of 2:00 p.m. on April 8th, when he dropped TLM off at the employment centre and told her he was leaving town and would see her the next day, there was no plan to abduct and sexually assault a child. But according to TLM, the plan was suggested to her less than an hour before Tori was kidnapped - kidnapped by her.

    The Crown also did not ask any of these women if MTR showed any physically aggressive behaviour toward them ... suggesting that he could be violent. He didnít ask if he had ever threatened them. He didnít even ask them if MTR had a bad temper.

    I have checked again with my lawyer friend, and both the Crown and the defence are entitled to ask any questions of their witnesses that may be relevant to the charges. They do know in advance what the answers to their questions will be. They can and do try to establish anything via testimony that will bolster their own case. And this is why Justice Heeney advised the jury that they may NOT consider MTR being a "philandering cad" as part of the evidence. As despicable as he may have acted towards women, it does not have anything to do with his charges of kidnapping, murder, or sexual assault.

    IMO, there were a lot of questions the Crown could have asked that he did not. Now, Iím looking forward to what questions the defence will ask.

    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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