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Thread: NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 - #2

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisgirl View Post
    thank you kat & wfgodot. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. i was unaware of the connection. somehow today was the first day that i had ever heard of this case & i am very interested. will try to become more informed before i involve myself in further discussions.
    You've done fine. Certain aspects of this case are rather tricky areas.

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  3. #77
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    No big deal thisgirl! Feel free to post your thoughts! This is a very old case and sometimes with decades old cases like this there is so much info out there it's hard to know where to even start. So many years have passed that I had to catch up on a lot of the info because I had forgotten it.

    Etan went missing the month and year I graduated from High School. I'm now middle aged with five kids. Been a long long time.

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  5. #78
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    I wish that LE would request Canadian Profiler OPP Det.-Sgt. Jim Smyth have a go at Ramos.

    He extracted a confession out of former Colonel Russell Williams, once commander of Canada's largest military base, and convicted murderer and rapist.

    He has also worked with the FBI in some high profile cases recently.

    Link to the video of his extraction of the confession of Williams.

    Should be used to train profilers everywhere, IMO.

    If anyone has a connection to LE in Etan's case, it is worthy of a suggestion, believe me. The man is a genius in psychology. He also single handedly found missing 8 year old Victoria Stafford's remains, based on behavioural analysis, and an extracted confession from 1 of her murderers.

    OPP Det. Sgt. Jim Smyth presents evidence to Col. Russell Williams in a videotaped interrogation Feb 7, 2010

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzh3adTWZOg"]Video: Russell Williams confession, Pt. 1 - YouTube[/ame]

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  7. #79
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    Wow, what a brilliant guy. I bet that part of his success is due to his calm nature, allowing dignity to the accused and showing them respect- while also giving importance to the situation. Cl Williams still had a lot of power in that conversation.
    Barely made it through 10th grade chemistry

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  9. #80
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    To me, it's pretty clear that it was Ramos. Sure, we don't know for sure, and we probably won't ever know for sure, but if you want someone to blame, I believe that's our best bet. Honestly, do you really think that a sicker than sick child molester in that close of a proximity to Etan wasn't responsible? I think it's very likely.

    We can also go ahead and speculate whether or not Etan is alive. Either way, his life was taken from him in one way or another, and in both circumstances, his parents lose. There's nothing right now to indicate that he is alive. But if we've got a convicted child rapist who targeted boys who fit Etan's profile, do you honestly think it was anyone else? Probably not. I don't buy his story for an instant. He's willing to admit to other crimes, but if you think about it, it's not really that hard to cop out when you've already been charged with other similar crimes. So sure, Etan just might be alive, or he might be dead; I think an individual like Ramos is capable of almost anything.

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  11. #81
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    New 3 page article.
    http://www.courier-journal.com/artic...sey=nav%7Chead

    "“It sent a chill through everybody,” said Stratton, 73, whose son was in the same neighborhood play group as Etan Patz, the 6-year-old who never boarded his school bus on May 25, 1979. “You could not leave your child for a minute. Anywhere. It was like a dark cloud had come over the neighborhood.”

    Before Etan disappeared, the notion that a child could be abducted right off the street, in broad daylight, was not familiar. Children roamed their hometowns freely, unencumbered by fear. They could walk to school and the bus stop and just about anywhere they pleased all by themselves. That all changed after Etan set off for school in his favorite pilot’s cap and corduroy jacket and did not return.

    A new age of paranoia had grabbed hold of the national psyche. And so many years later, that paralyzing sense of fear has yet to fully release its grip."

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  13. #82
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    I bet many of us can relate to this Mother..
    http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture...-radar-pinging


    " Etan Patz, who is still being searched for 33 years after he was kidnapped, and other cases of missing children have one mom struggling with her stranger danger radar."

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  15. #83
    A friend of the lady described as babysitter / housekeeper to Patz family contributed the following to a Franklin Files discussion.

    I was friends with the woman who had been Etan Patz's babysitter.

    This was years later after Etan's disappearance Her son was an out of control heroin addict and drunk, creating serious dramas, attempting suicide, was banned from the the place she lived in for doing damage and disturbing people with the police and ambulances that had to be called for all his acting and freaking out. This was on a daily basis. People suggested that she put him in a hospital, but she would never do it. She couldn't throw him out either as some tough love advocates counseled. Friend was always in emergency rooms with her son and/or sneaking him in and out of the tiny place she lived in.

    One time I told her that I thought her son had been sexually abused at a very young age. Her face turned white. my friend was very uncomfortable ending the conversation quickly.

    Fast forward years go by I haven't seen her. I found something on the internet where she was interviewed. The guy who they think abducted Etan had dated her to get to her son and sexually abused him. The day Etan was taken was the day she didn't go to work or was late. I was right after all.

    I was very sad to read that Susan's child had committed suicide. I often think that she and her son knew more about the case and Etan's disappearance that she was willing to let on about.
    I met her in the late 80's. This was well after Etan's disappearance. I knew her from around the east village and had run into her at a guru event.

    Susan only spoke about it once or twice saying they had investigated her thoroughly. She dismissed it. I may have asked her about it. I didn't think it too strange then . She told me that she was Etan's babysitter at that time. Not something to broadcast that the kid you are taking care of is snatched away. If she felt guilty or responsible she never let on. Now I think it's a little odd that she was detached from it. Maybe they grilled her so badly she learned to shut up about it to protect herself? It must have been painful for her.

    Never said anything about her son being molested or hurt by her boyfriend. then again, that's not really a topic of daily conversation. She was totally consumed with her child's acting out. It got very wearying for me and frightening.

    Every other day it was major drama. One time he tried to kill himself down near Gracie Mansion by jumping in the East River. They called out the dogs, helicopters, police trucks, reporters, a real circus. Every other day this guy was in the emergency room. I wondered why no one committed him.

    Susan had a serious blind spot when it came to her son. Now I think she was trying to get him to not talk, that he had confided in her and they both knew way more. Her reaction when I mentioned early childhood trauma was extreme for someone who had that ongoing contact w/professionals. Maybe there was some other things going on that she did not feel safe to discuss. I read the website by Johnny Grosch's mother and now wonder that perhaps her son was being threatened by someone who didn't want the truth told?

    Susan worked odd jobs doing cleaning and errands for people around NYC. An interesting thing to find out, if there is any possibility years later is if there were crimes or unusual things that happened to or with the other people she worked for. This might be difficult as I'm guessing that she was paid in cash. How did the Patz's come to employ her. Maybe the people who referred her could be checked out? Then there would be all the police reports and emergency room reports on her son.

    I'm not saying that I think Susan kidnapped Etan. Or that she even participated. I'm saying there is a tiny sliver of possibility that she might have a bit more information.

    My interest in the Franklin Scandal has to do with the mind control and brainwashing victims were subjected to. I spent a good chunk of my life in a guru cult. There was secret sexual abuse in the cult that I had picked up on but only had validated when I was safely out of the group.

    The meditation class was the beginning of this cult's recruitment process. Susan and I attended the same weekly meditation .

    I have no idea if she is still involved w/this group. I am deeply saddened that her child killed himself.
    Ramos explanation of events. { Notice Ramos refers to May 29, 1979 - Etan went missing May 25, 1979. }

    Having now spent fourteen years illegally incarcerated by the Commonwealth of Corruption, I'm forced to break my code of omerta. I'm continually the target of everyone's hatred because of the nature of my case. It has caused the Department of Corrections to deny a recommendation for my parole, refuse to admit me into a treatment program and refuse to give me employment while encouraging its officers to damage my meager personal possessions, destroy my legal papers and allow various inmates to physically assault me.
    I have continually been mentally tortured by sadistically inclined guards at several prisons in the Commonwealth. The process continues even as I write to you who are the last bastion of freedom left in this country. All of this is because I refuse to testify about an alleged crime about which I have no information, however, if the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution which took effect on 15 December 1791 is still in effect, I'm deliberately being denied my constitutional rights.

    As to what actually happened to Etan Patz, if any freedom-loving American wants the true story, I kindly ask that you send $2 to my snail-mail address. I'll send you the complete history of what happened and not what the American pubic has been told by the media.


    The Whole Truth So Help Me G-D
    In Brief

    To begin, the reader must keep an open mind about everything you are about to learn. Firstly, the fact that I'm illegally convicted should alert you that our present justice system lacks compassion. The media has already declared me guilty of an alleged crime that I really, truthfully have no knowledge about. In truth, I never took Etan Patz to my apartment on May 29, 1979 to have sex with him. The assertion is a lie from the former US Assistant Attorney for the Southern District of New York City who conducted an improper interview and reported the lie to the media.

    What I told the US Attorney was that I took a child named Jimmy to my apartment. When he said no to my invitation for sex, I safely took the boy away and put him on a subway train.

    When the US Attorney first questioned me, he refused to allow me to have an attorney present and failed to give me a Maranda warning. I told him about meeting a child in Washington Square Park who was playing with a ball. Further I told the prosecutor that a police car came by while we were talking and photographed the boy, but it wasn't the child they were even then looking for.

    Thirdly, at the time that the child, Etan Patz, was said to have gone by himself to catch a bus, I, as the super of the building where I lived, was just starting to sweep and mop the whole building, twelve blocks way. Why nobody saw the boy board the bus is another mystery since it stopped at the corner of a small grocery store.

    When I finished cleaning the building, I went to the landlord's office on Avenue B as I did every morning. My landlord was never questioned about my whereabouts.

    Then, there's another mystery about my ex-girlfriend who cleaned the apartment for Etan's parents; where was she on that morning? The night before she'd told me that she was going to clean an apartment. I didn't know that it was the Patz's apartment until the afternoon when I showed her the copy of the Daily News with the story about the missing child. The main question is, where did this welfare mother suddenly get the big bucks to hire a high priced attorney to represent her.

    There's another aspect of this case that the public doesn't know. There was another suspect, A Mr. G--, who was never brought to public attention by the media. You have a right to know about that man from the police records pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act.

    In closing, I can only tell you that at no time have I ever harmed a child with any violence. I'm not making excuses for my sexual addiction to young boys. That's a disease from which I suffer and for which I am being denied treatment.
    ~Human Beings Are All Members Of One Body.
    They Are Created From The Same Essence.
    When One Member Is In Pain,
    The Others Cannot Rest.
    If You Do Not Care About The Pain Of Others,
    You Do Not Deserve To Be Called A Human Being.~


    A Quote From 13th Century Famous Persian Poet Saadi Shirazi

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic72981_1.gif

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  17. #84
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    Respectfully, I would take the words of a convicted child molestor and posts on the Franklin Files site with a hefty dose of salt.

    I would tend to agree with the posters who think it was Ramos. Maybe he didn't intend murder when he took Etan, but the child fought back or something happened to panic him and he killed him. Ramos doesn't sound like the sanest of people, maybe at this stage he has indeed convinced himself that he took no for an answer and put the child on the subway. Or maybe he's lying. Either way, he is definitely the most likely suspect given what we know, MOO.

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  19. #85
    Then why not charge him. Either he pleads guilty - or the case goes to trial. He has already been found liable in a Civil Court - though no trial took place. 33 years of case files should be enough to build a case. Though the public has no idea what is in them - and LE basically just publicly named Miller a suspect. .
    ~Human Beings Are All Members Of One Body.
    They Are Created From The Same Essence.
    When One Member Is In Pain,
    The Others Cannot Rest.
    If You Do Not Care About The Pain Of Others,
    You Do Not Deserve To Be Called A Human Being.~


    A Quote From 13th Century Famous Persian Poet Saadi Shirazi

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic72981_1.gif

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  21. #86
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    Its difficult to charge anybody with anything without a body. I know its not impossible but its rare, and difficult to get a conviction in those circumstances.

    Miller is also a promising suspect, but IMO the case against Ramos is stronger, primarily because he has a pattern of predatory behaviour towards young boys in Etan's age group and physical type. I know there are allegations of sexual deviancy in Miller's case also, but he's never been convicted of any of them, and even the allegations don't involve young boys.

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  23. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilsPlayThing View Post
    Then why not charge him. Either he pleads guilty - or the case goes to trial. He has already been found liable in a Civil Court - though no trial took place. 33 years of case files should be enough to build a case. Though the public has no idea what is in them - and LE basically just publicly named Miller a suspect. .
    They have no body - without a body, it is incredibly hard to build a case. And those 33 years of case files could be full of hearsay, inadmissible evidence, and dead ends. Lastly, civil cases are very, very different from criminal cases - the civil case has no bearing on any future criminal action, at least in terms of proving a case. The standards of proof are much different.
    “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.” - Eleanor Roosevelt


    In no way should any of my statements be construed as legal opinion or advice. I am a newly practicing lawyer (yay!) but not a verified poster here at WS. The above statement(s) are an expression of my personal opinion, for entertainment purposes only, and copyright.

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  25. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilsPlayThing View Post
    A friend of the lady described as babysitter / housekeeper to Patz family contributed the following to a Franklin Files discussion.





    Ramos explanation of events. { Notice Ramos refers to May 29, 1979 - Etan went missing May 25, 1979. }
    He is SICK!!! ugh, i wanted to believe Etan might still be alive, but after reading that sick disgusting vile piece of garbage, i sadly don't think so anymore. Notice all the little details he remembers, good grief he didn't do anything violent to children!!??? puh-lease, his sexual problems are just a disease he is being denied treatment for?? oh my god.... that whole thing just made me so angry.....

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  27. #89
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    Etan Patz is Not Alone: 15 Missing Child Cases in NYC Remain Unsolved Updated May 1, 2012 6:35am

    May 1, 2012 6:35am | By Mary Johnson, DNAinfo Reporter/Producer


    Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2012...#ixzz1tjPk3mHl

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  29. #90
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    Great idea!
    http://www.downtownexpress.com/?p=9686

    "Above, during the effort, an agent dumped dirt from the basement into a dumpster. The debris will be segregated at a landfill on Staten Island in case it needs to be re-examined later".

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  31. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    Etan Patz is Not Alone: 15 Missing Child Cases in NYC Remain Unsolved Updated May 1, 2012 6:35am

    May 1, 2012 6:35am | By Mary Johnson, DNAinfo Reporter/Producer


    Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2012...#ixzz1tjPk3mHl
    This is true-we can't forget them either!
    Have You Seen Me?
    Deanie Marie Pyle Peters
    Mary Jo Lee Long
    Leanna "Beaner" Warner
    Jodi Huisentruit
    Amy Billig
    Rachael Garden
    Stacie Madison and Susan Smalley
    The Springfield Three
    Fawn & Rozlin Abell
    The Forth Worth Trio
    Rachel Mellon Skemp

    ***
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/20806
    Where is Sharon Rose Sons?
    Discuss her case here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...aron+rose+sons

    "We lose our keys, we lose our glasses..but how, in America, do we lose our children?!"-Molly Bish's Mother
    **All posts are my opinion.**

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  33. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    Great idea!
    http://www.downtownexpress.com/?p=9686

    "Above, during the effort, an agent dumped dirt from the basement into a dumpster. The debris will be segregated at a landfill on Staten Island in case it needs to be re-examined later".
    Unfortunately, Staten Island has had a lot of practice sifting landfill contents for remains. It sounds like they've sent the results of the dig to the now closed Fresh Kills landfill. This was also where the debris from the World Trade Center were taken. Almost 5,000 human remains were sifted out of the rubble at Fresh Kills of which, 300 victims were IDed. It has been closed for a decade, but it sounds like they've made an exception in this case, as I don't think there's an operational landfill on Staten Island.

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  35. #93
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    Etan Patz-Curious Facebook Account

    I feel so sad over this case. I was only 14 when this crime was committed, and throughout the years, I would always follow developments. I feel so bad for the Patz family. I can only hope for some sort of closure for them. I think Jose Ramos should have the truth tortured out of him!

    After reading the book "After Etan," I did some searches on Facebook just to see if those mentioned in the book have Facebook accounts. In addition to Ari Patz, Shira Patz and other relatives and neighbors from SoHo, I find it real interesting that someone actually has a Facebook account under the name "Johnny France America." That name was the name of the imaginary friend Etan had that was mention in the book. Now, in a perfect world, I would love it if this turned out to be Etan actually living under this name or account name. But after reading the book, and learning more of the evidence, it seems more likely that Jose Ramos is in fact the perpetrator of this horrible crime.

    I wonder who would put up a "Johnny France America" Facebook account? It's virtually set to total privacy, and the only thing available is that the account holder likes Bill Maher. Any thoughts on this?

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  37. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt1964 View Post
    I feel so sad over this case. I was only 14 when this crime was committed, and throughout the years, I would always follow developments. I feel so bad for the Patz family. I can only hope for some sort of closure for them. I think Jose Ramos should have the truth tortured out of him!

    After reading the book "After Etan," I did some searches on Facebook just to see if those mentioned in the book have Facebook accounts. In addition to Ari Patz, Shira Patz and other relatives and neighbors from SoHo, I find it real interesting that someone actually has a Facebook account under the name "Johnny France America." That name was the name of the imaginary friend Etan had that was mention in the book. Now, in a perfect world, I would love it if this turned out to be Etan actually living under this name or account name. But after reading the book, and learning more of the evidence, it seems more likely that Jose Ramos is in fact the perpetrator of this horrible crime.

    I wonder who would put up a "Johnny France America" Facebook account? It's virtually set to total privacy, and the only thing available is that the account holder likes Bill Maher. Any thoughts on this?
    You could always send a friend request and a message to the person on FB. Who knows...you might find that someone has been following the case as closely as you have over the years. Or you might find someone who knows more about what happened to Etan. Either way, it would be worth a try.

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  39. #95
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    Etan Today?

    I know this sounds far-fetched, but I went on Facebook and searched "Etan Ben Haim" (the title in the Israel newspaper that years ago sparked a search in Israel for Etan. On Facebook, I found an account for "Eitan Ben Haim." I have attached a pic of Eitan Patz and Eitan Ben Haim. Any similarities?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  41. #96
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    Etan-One Other Point

    Eitan Ben Haim graduated high school (according to his Facebook account) in 1990. Etan Patz would have been about 17 in 1990. So, Eitan and Etan would be about the same age.

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  43. #97
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    Hello folks...How is everyone tonight...I skimmed through this thread the 2nd one and so forgive me as iam sure most of you know but I seen the beginning of this when there was breaking news on janeVM and Nancy but i have not heard anything about it since . Did they find ETAN under the concrete of that basement or no and they have left or just still trying...I guess im looking for a update..
    Everything I Write Is JMHO ..

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  45. #98
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    No, they did not find him. Just some old takeout food scraps.
    If coincidence never happened, there wouldn't be a word for it.

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  47. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt1964 View Post
    I know this sounds far-fetched, but I went on Facebook and searched "Etan Ben Haim" (the title in the Israel newspaper that years ago sparked a search in Israel for Etan. On Facebook, I found an account for "Eitan Ben Haim." I have attached a pic of Eitan Patz and Eitan Ben Haim. Any similarities?
    IMO, yes!

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  49. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt1964 View Post
    I know this sounds far-fetched, but I went on Facebook and searched "Etan Ben Haim" (the title in the Israel newspaper that years ago sparked a search in Israel for Etan. On Facebook, I found an account for "Eitan Ben Haim." I have attached a pic of Eitan Patz and Eitan Ben Haim. Any similarities?
    I think they look alike too!
    ------------------------------------------------------------


    Tammie McCormick, 13, missing since 1986 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=128676

    Jaliek Rainwalker, 12, missing since 2007 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55811

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