It's possible that if someone did come in and took Isa, they made her walk. They didn't necessarily have to carry her out of the house.
Look at Elizabeth Smart and Jessica Lunsford.
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It becomes difficult trying to explain things through a snap-shots and trying to piece the actual view of the home, if that makes any sense.
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On Vinnie: Natisha, producer of NG show talks about what the neighbor said, and shows us the family yard.
According to Natisha, the Celis family dogs WERE OUTSIDE at 6:30 when the neighbor heard the voices and the dogs barking. So imo, there is no way they took the child with the dogs outside barking at them.
I think the 6:30 ruckus is a red herring. I think she was taken in the middle of the night, in the dark.
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Since stranger abductions are rare, and rarer still stranger abduction from the home, there has to be suspicion on the parents...if only to rule them out. Their press conference didn't do it. The dad was definitely distraught and the mother was...not as much. Do they know/suspect who took her? Were they involved? Are they not in agreement to what might have happened? Many unanswered questions and not all the info is out yet.
But we don't know what the FBI may have told them about being careful what they say, so as not to spur certain things from the suspect, or whatever.
I don't blame those who are on the fence or suspicious of the parents. We know little and stats bear out parental involvement. It's not my feeling but like PAXIMUS said, websleuths is not about an echo chamber. We discuss and digest. And sometimes that leads us to the the truth.
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Vinnie Politan just had their neighbor on who said her dog was going nuts abnormally at 6:30 a.m. the morning of the disappearance and heard men's voices, which also was abnormal. It would have been light out, and Mom would still have been home. Sure seems like a strange time to abduct a child.
The no tears crying at the parents' statement yesterday has me suspicious they at least know something, sorry. I always look for tears when people are crying like they were. I saw none in either parent's eyes or on their cheeks. Absent of more evidence, hard to point the finger at them directly, but the odds favor a family member as the perp.
The neighbor's house and the Celis' house are really close.
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On Fox news today they said only 150 missing children a year our taken by strangers and of those only 15 abducted from their homes! We know of case's were children have been taken right out of their homes...but it is very rare! So of course they will look at the parents, because stats don't lie! Having said that, they maybe one of the unlucky 15!
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I don't understand why like in some other cases, the police here can't just come out and say, the parents have been cleared (Lets move on).
Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.
I saw the mom as MORE upset than dad - but that's what I saw.
I think LE isn't ruling anyone out, especially the parents, in the hopes that whomever took Isa puts their guard down cause THEY aren't on the radar (or so they might think).
HOPE that makes sense!
"What the thinker thinks, the Prover proves". - Robert Anton Wilson
I believe she did hear stuff, but what I believe she heard was possibly police and family approaching her house or someone looking in the backyard for Isa.
IDK. All speculation and trying to figure out where my sudden hinky feeling came from. MOO.
All I know is I was quite certain yesterday that the parents had no part in this at all. Now I'm fence sitting.
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ITA, it would make no sense to take her in the daylight hours when neighbors are likely to be awake and outside.
I'm battling with thoughts after reading a few things out there on the net (can't link to them here). I always struggle with the thought a parent could or would do something to harm their own child.
The family seems to be loving and very proud (Mom's FB Posts) of their children. Could this have been an unintentional act which in panic mode was covered up? Isa was having problems sleeping that night and she was given too much medicine. Both parents are in the medical field, that would not bode well for their careers (or at least Mom's).
I can't imagine being the parent of a missing child and being falsely accused of having done something to them, so I feel guilty even expressing this right now. There are no facts to support my thoughts
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But if I dont have any suspicions whatsoever about the parents, then I will support them all the way, even if others decide they dont want to do so.
I did it for Steve Greone and Mark Lunsford and felt completely comfortable in my decision. I never waivered from it either and my opinion was formed very early on when I first saw them speak out for the first time.
I support these two parents totally. Nothing they have done or said makes me feel any differently. I think they are both shattered and their lives will never be the same. They have lost their precious little daughter whom I feel they love beyond words.
As far as how the predator got Isa out of the home is unknown at this time. Just because the window may have been the point of entry doesnt mean they had to exit that way. Children have been taken from a home where the pedophile gained entrance via an open window. I read a case where a child went missing and this is how he took her away by crawling in her bedroom window. They found her blocks away from her home where he had raped her and left her there. Iirc, she was older than Isa. Elizabeth Smarts predator gained access to her home through an open window but took her out a door.
The window to Isa's bedroom is plenty large and low enough to the ground to go out that way with her but nothing says that is how they left.
Children older than Isa have been stolen from their own beds when adults were present in the home, and none of them heard a thing and yes, some of them had dogs too. The problem with dogs barking is people tend to tune them out if they are known to bark a lot just like the neighbor in this case did and turned back over and went back to sleep.
IMO, there is absolutely nothing that shows either of these parents are involved in Isa's disappearance.
I know that this particular LE uses the phrase 'everyone is a POI' which frankly is quite absurd imo because arent you a local from that area? Have they been to your house or your neighbors or to every home in your town? I highly doubt they have included you or other local posters in the POI equation. So its just a game this police is playing because they dont have a clue who took Isa from her bed that night, imo.
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I know what you mean.
However, it was three dogs without proof of vaccinations and license, so it was something closer to 9 citations. They take dogs at large pretty seriously there. In Pima County, dogs at large means hefty fines and possible jail time, possibly both. Add to that no paperwork, and the fines are large.
The owner of a dog or canine-wild animal hybrid that is found at large upon the streets, sidewalks, alleys, or public property is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
The owner of a dog or canine-wild animal hybrid that is found at large upon the premises of the owner or upon the private premises of any other person is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
Penalty. A violation of any provision of this section is punishable by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars nor more than seven hundred fifty dollars, four months in jail, two years' probation, or any combination thereof. No judge may grant probation in lieu of, or otherwise suspend, the imposition of the minimum fine prescribed herein.
Last edited by Prof; 04-26-2012 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Brevity
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THAT SAID.....I honestly cannot say how I would speak or react in their position. And I desperately want to be wrong in my gut and go back to Team Innocent Parents.
In any case, I want Isa home and safe.
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I've been lurking here for a bit, but decided to post some of my random thoughts.
Regarding the neighbor- I tend to believe she did hear what she says she heard. I'm just not positive that she heard Isabel being taken, if that makes sense? Our neighbor's house is very close to ours and there have been times when their outside activity has woken me up- talking, car doors slamming, etc. I have never once bothered to get up and look out my window, and I don't blame this neighbor for not doing so. And I totally understand what she's saying when she says it was daylight, so she didn't think to look. If I heard the same noises that I've heard in the morning, but at night time- you bet I'd be looking out the window. Somehow daylight makes them seem...not nefarious.
About the dogs at 6:30- I have 2 dogs. Often times when we let them out they RUN out in the yard and start barking up a storm at something we never noticed- a rabbit, a neighbor sitting on their deck, a kid walking to the bus stop. Given the time line, my theory is that the mom let the dogs out before work, and the dogs immediately knew something was up! They were barking up a storm (which maybe got the neighbor's dogs barking) because they knew something was wrong. If an intruder took Isabel, they could smell the intruder in the yard.
That said, I don't understand how dogs that are supposedly very vocal managed to...not make a sound while Isabel was being taken. Makes me suspicious, to be honest- I realize we don't know for a fact that they didn't make a noise. I guess they could have been shut in the boys' room, or with the parents, etc. Or maybe any barking they did do was ignored because they always bark.
I don't know. On one hand, I very much can see how the dogs barking at 6:30 was the dogs trying to alert the family that something was wrong- not saying they heard or saw anyone (though I think that's possible, still- perhaps the intruder took her to the red car?), but I can't necessarily make that work with an intruder managing to come in the house without alerting the dogs. Hmmm.