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Thread: AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #5

  1. #76
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    I'm glad the parents came out and spoke. Now I feel terrible doubting them. I feel their pain. This is so sad.

    My dog barks when I leave the house. I have everything ready and leave right away so he won't wake my family up.

    Since its a commercial area maybe the neighbor heard men making a delivery.

    Prayers for this sweet little girl
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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    I'm still puzzled by Sergio Celis' mention of "demands" during his brief statement yesterday. When LE Chief was questioned about this during a later presser, he stated that there had been no ransom demands in Isabel's disappearance. Why would Isa's dad plea to kidnappers and mention "meeting (their) demands" if there hasn't been a ransom demand? Does anyone else find this odd?
    Personally I think he said that out of hope or wishfull thinking. I just watched the statement again and he said something like "whoever has her, please contact us, and let us know your demands." IMO, it is easier for him to consider this as a kidnapping, rather than a pedophile abduction, thus pleading for ransom. If my daughter were missing from her bed, I too would be begging to hear demands. By begging to hear demands he is holding on to hope that they can meet their demands and get their daughter back. Considering a pedophile has her, means she is most likely gone, and he's not going to consider this yet. just imo though...

    Praying for you safe return beautiful Isabel!
    "The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity. The fears are paper tigers. You can do anything you decide to do. You can act to change and control your life; and the procedure, and the process is its own reward." Amelia Earhart

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  5. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurfieTX View Post
    Q: Was there anyone else other than the immediate family in the house the night she went missing?

    A: Information that is crucial to us and important to the investigation will not be released.
    IMO, this means that there was someone else at the house overnight or at least at some point between 11 and 8. How many times have we heard LE say that no one other than immediate family was in the house when something happened? The fact that they won't do that here means only one thing, IMO. (Now, it doesn't mean that person was involved... It could be that the 10 year old had a sleepover or something... But, I definitely think it means someone else was there.)

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  7. #79
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    Who ever did this abduction, when caught should be locked up forever!
    Children have the right to sleep in their own beds in their own homes.
    This is happening to many times and I am believing in the hang em high theory!
    Look what everyone is going through with this painful ordeal!
    Poor little Isabel, God Bless Her!!!
    Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
    Justice for Hailey!!!!
    No Justice for Caylee Marie..........

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  9. #80
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    While I can understand tuning dogs out, it is hard for me to understand why a family who has a charge pending in court with possibly very large fines about the very dogs in question would allow dogs to "go nuts" at a very early hour of the morning, if any time of the day?

    The incident happened just the Friday before, the charge was made on the 19th, just a day or two before, and they were set to go to court today.

    If one is already in trouble with Tuscon Animal Care enough for them to file a misdemeanror charge with large fines AND possible jail time, why would one not at least be sensitive to dogs barking?

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  11. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
    My dogs bark at other dogs (i figure that's the only way they can communicate with each other from a distance). They bark when someone is near the house, but if someone is approaching the house the bark changes from a regular bark to shrill barks, a definite difference and a much higher level of excitement.
    Just yesterday my beagle and bagle (bassett/beagle) watched as our maintenance guy returned our garbage can to our patio. They went nuts, jumping at the door and barking - sounded vicious. When he left, I let them outside. They ran right up to the gate, still going nuts and sounding vicious, and pushed the gate open because he didn't shut it properly! omgosh, I ran out the door in my jammi's (was so mad, lol), thinking they were going to attack him, but instead they ran right to his feet, rolled over, and "demanded" tummy rubs. I laughed about it, but later thought "oh no, I don't want the maintenance man to know they aren't vicious!"

    The really sad thing for me is that my dogs always bark at night and hubby and I always tell them to be quiet, from our beds, because it's always an animal by our garbage can, or so we think! Wondering now ---- loud barking vicious barking, stranger getting in, and vicious dogs demanding tummy rubs! Checked my doors 3 times last night, checked on little one several times, and NEVER again will I tell my dogs to be quiet - from now on I am getting my butt out of bed to see what they are barking at! What a sad scary world we live in!
    "The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity. The fears are paper tigers. You can do anything you decide to do. You can act to change and control your life; and the procedure, and the process is its own reward." Amelia Earhart

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  13. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    While I can understand tuning dogs out, it is hard for me to understand why a family who has a charge pending in court with possibly very large fines about the very dogs in question would allow dogs to "go nuts" at a very early hour of the morning, if any time of the day?

    The incident happened just the Friday before, the charge was made on the 19th, just a day or two before, and they were set to go to court today.

    If one is already in trouble with Tuscon Animal Care enough for them to file a misdemeanror charge with large fines AND possible jail time, why would one not at least be sensitive to dogs barking?
    I thought the TAC charge was for the dogs being loose and unregistered? Not for barking?
    Also, were they going nuts or simply barking? The houses are close together, dogs were barking, but not at a level that the neighbor was alerted enough to do anything but fall back asleep. Am I missing something? I apologize if I am!

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  15. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    Good morning, Everyone!

    I am not convinced when the neighbor heard the dogs barking that it had anything to do with Isa being abducted. By 6:30 am people can start milling around and a lot of people have to work on Saturdays.

    So I feel it may have just been two workers in the area talking with each other.

    If any of the neighbors work in one of the businesss behind Isa's home they could just walk to work.

    But I am intrigued about the dog or dogs getting loose just one week before Isa went missing. If the dogs were prone to get out of the fence then I would think there would be an habitual record of that happening but this seems to be the only time.

    So how did the dog get loose and what time did they realize they werent in the fence? Did someone let the dog or the larger dog out on purpose when they werent there or were asleep? Were they trying to elimate their risks? Or were they plannng on doing it that day and the dogs came out of the gate when they opened it? Or did they let the dogs out when they opened the gate late in the night so they could peer into the windows in order to find Isa's bedroom?

    I dont know, but something about the dogs being able to get out of the yard just a week before nags me for some reason. It just makes me feel that whoever this is was already staking the home out.

    So did they start putting the dogs inside at night to make sure they did not get out of the fence?

    Just somethngs that nags at me for some reason.

    imo
    Im sort of thinking this too but...IF mom worked 7a-7p @ 6:30 I would have been gone. I live 13 miles from the hospital but usually I would leave well in advance. If the 6:30 timeframe was found to be the point of abduction I would say mom just left. I wonder too with a 11-14 yr old does mom go to work and dad do things on Saturdays leaving Isa with the boys to watch for a few hrs? Did they think that dad would be gone? You know if he had preformances late on Fridays alot he could be a late sat. sleeper ...so many what ifs..

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  17. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by lillygator View Post
    did you follow the Samantha case? the girl missing from Alaska - they have video as well and didn't release it. As much as we all would like to see it, we have to have faith that they are holding it for some reason.
    No, I did not follow that case. I just was thinking that it might lead to some new tips for people peripheral to the case. But you are right, I am not LE and I am sure they know more how to handle things than I do, lol! Thanks for responding.

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  19. #85
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    Every household needs a dog like mine. He barks when anyone leaves the house, not when they come in. LOL

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    I just want to point out here that the only time, that I am aware of, that it was mentioned the mother went to work at 7:30 AM came out during the Nancy Grace show, when she interviewed "Sergeant Maria Hawke, the PIO of the Tucson PD."

    GRACE: Sergeant Hawke, what time -- what time did the mom go to work that morning?

    HAWKE: It`s my understanding that she left for work at approximately 7:30 in the morning.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../23/ng.01.html

    I recall being really surprised to hear this especially since LE over the many press conference they had from this onset of this case would NOT state the time.

    Then the other day, when the Vice President of the Medical Center spoke to ABC indicating that the mother was at work VERY early that morning.

    VIDEO mark ~1:50

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...celis-16208983

    and now with the neighbor's dog as well as the Celis' dogs barking is making my head hurt wanting to know the accurate time the mother went to work that day.
    Last edited by Patty G; 04-26-2012 at 11:58 AM. Reason: clarified video
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  23. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    Oh, I would not call police. I would call animal control.
    TAC has a noise ordinance for animals, too. The neighbors seem to know the Celis' dogs and their barking, so I am betting TAC has had calls.
    Would the phones at Animal Control be manned at 6:30am? If I thought my dog (I don't HAVE one, but IF I did) was concerned about something, I would not wait 90 minutes to call, assuming they open at 8am Saturday. If it was a crime in progress, it would be all over with by then.
    My posts are strictly MY opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error, or who may be offended because I do not see eye to eye with them on all matters related to this case. I hope our differences can be set aside as we unite in the search for this victim or the perpetrator of this crime. Your opinions and insights are just as valuable as mine.

    Make a difference. Read my story in the CAPER - Citizens Against Pedophile's Early Release Forum
    or visit http://noparole4pedophile.weebly.com/ for background on the case of Donald Scott Brunstetter, including photos, supporting documents, a blog, educational information, and resources/sources of help if you find yourself or a loved on in a similar situation.

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  25. #88
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    I am having a hard time keeping up so forgive me if this has been addressed....

    She was put to bed at eleven?
    And Mom didn't check on her before leaving for work

    Dad went in at eight AM and saw that she was missing.

    So it is possible that whatever happened happened between the time the parents went to bed and eight AM?

    I would think if the dogs were barking, Dad and sons would possibly hear them
    It may mean nothing to them at the time, but I expect it would be remembered when they realized the little one was missing
    ~ let the storm wash over you, because somewhere beneath, there is your balance and wisdom ~


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  27. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by azwildcat View Post
    I thought the TAC charge was for the dogs being loose and unregistered? Not for barking?
    Also, were they going nuts or simply barking? The houses are close together, dogs were barking, but not at a level that the neighbor was alerted enough to do anything but fall back asleep. Am I missing something? I apologize if I am!

    To me it does not matter what TAC was able to charge the family with, but that the charge was pending, and they had to go to court over it. I just think that would make most dog owners be a bit more aware of being on good behavior at least for a few days.

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  29. #90
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    I don't have any problems with the family not wanting to return to the home or perhaps asking for extra protection should they return. They have two other children and they would naturally be concerned about the remaining children.
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  31. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushi View Post
    Perhaps someone could help me out.

    I am a bit confused about the Celis Family wanting or needing police protection.
    Is that common in missing children cases?

    It seems they are afraid about something happening if they return home.
    Most likely the boys are scared out of their wits it will happen to them too, especially the 10 year old. Mom and dad will be worrying about that too because unless you know why she was taken, you can't be sure they won't come back

    Improbable yes, but for parents who just had their precious daughter kidnapped it would be their first thought...protecting the kids they have left.

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  33. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushi View Post
    I am having a hard time keeping up so forgive me if this has been addressed....

    She was put to bed at eleven?
    And Mom didn't check on her before leaving for work

    Dad went in at eight AM and saw that she was missing.

    So it is possible that whatever happened happened between the time the parents went to bed and eight AM?

    I would think if the dogs were barking, Dad and sons would possibly hear them
    It may mean nothing to them at the time, but I expect it would be remembered when they realized the little one was missing
    What we know is the "family" put her to bed at 11:00.

    We don't know IF the mother checked on Isabel before she went to work.
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  35. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lera213 View Post
    Every household needs a dog like mine. He barks when anyone leaves the house, not when they come in. LOL
    mine does too! (well, my lhassapoo barks at everything...coming or going) but my 100 pound Beauceron howls when I leave (he lubs me :-)
    This bee my opinion

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  37. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patty G View Post
    I just want to point out here that the only time, that I am aware of, that it was mentioned the mother went to work at 7:30 AM came out during the Nancy Grace show, when she interviewed "Sergeant Maria Hawke, the PIO of the Tucson PD."

    GRACE: Sergeant Hawke, what time -- what time did the mom go to work that morning?

    HAWKE: It`s my understanding that she left for work at approximately 7:30 in the morning.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../23/ng.01.html

    I recall being really surprised to hear this especially since LE over the many press conference they had from this onset of this case would NOT state the time.

    Then the other day, when the Vice President of the Medical Center spoke to ABC indicating that the mother was at work VERY early that morning.

    VIDEO mark ~1:50

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...celis-16208983

    and now with the neighbor's dog as well as the Celis' dogs barking is making my head hurt wanting to know the accurate time the mother went to work that day.
    Thanks for this!

    My head hurts, too.
    I have HLN on.
    I just saw that they said police say case is "complex with limited information."
    It seems like an oxymoron.

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  39. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    I'm still puzzled by Sergio Celis' mention of "demands" during his brief statement yesterday. When LE Chief was questioned about this during a later presser, he stated that there had been no ransom demands in Isabel's disappearance. Why would Isa's dad plea to kidnappers and mention "meeting (their) demands" if there hasn't been a ransom demand? Does anyone else find this odd?
    Consider the alternative. She was taken to be raped and murdered. I would be begging for a ransom demand as well, hoping against hope that is why she was kidnapped.

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  41. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    I wish my doggies were like yours.

    I think they just love to bark. They even bark if they see our own kids or grands or close friends turning in our driveway. Little stinkers just have to let us know someone is here whether they are excited to see them or they are thinking they may not like them because they are strangers! Now the closer the people get to our door the bark will change.

    If it is someone they know and love they will bark then whine...and they think the door cant be open fast enough to suit them but if it is a stranger or even the postlady or UPS man........they both are like Cujo and are highly upset.

    But if they see a cat outside or even a squirrel or bird while they are looking out one of the glass doors they will just bark and bark and bark! LOL!
    LOL!! mine too! you don't by chance have boston terriers do you? mine do that exact same thing. The only way I know the difference is they get raised hair along their spine if it is a threat.

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  43. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    To me it does not matter what TAC was able to charge the family with, but that the charge was pending, and they had to go to court over it. I just think that would make most dog owners be a bit more aware of being on good behavior at least for a few days.
    Dogs bark. Again, the level of the barking didn't alert the woman next door enough to do anything else than to notice and go back to sleep, so I don't think it was at a nuisance level. But they weren't out roaming the street, so it seems the family was working in keeping that from happening again. I think a bit much is being read into the noise of the dogs.

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  45. #98
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    What are the facts in the case that have been reported by LE? Not what's been reported on NG or by any other talking head, just the facts that have thus far been provided by TPD. I'm guessing that it's a very short list. I'll start:

    ***there has not been a ransom demand of which LE is aware.

    Please add to the list. Thanks!

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  47. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by txanmom View Post
    LOL!! mine too! you don't by chance have boston terriers do you? mine do that exact same thing. The only way I know the difference is they get raised hair along their spine if it is a threat.
    Ha! I have a Boston too! He's just like that, the dogs next door drive him crazy and we are always telling him to "put your hair down Petey!"

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    The waste management trucks go through my neighborhood about 6:30 a.m. It gets so hot here during the day, that they are beginning earlier and earlier to beat the heat. I'm guessing that the mens voices she heard were the voices of the garbage men.

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