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Thread: AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by dimples37398 View Post
    I think, based on watching the video over and over, that the figure walks over to the wall, closer to where the 5 walked by, if you watch the video closely after he walks over that way, you can see movement there like he is climbing or jumping to look over the wall, then you can almost see him jump/drop down and walk back the direction he came from. Maybe he was looking for a victim that night.

    It still for me doesn't explain, how he knew which room was Isa's. How he knew or would take a chance on the 3 dogs, How he knew nobody would wake up while going out the back door or back out the window.
    Does anyone have a link to the video you are refering to?

    Concerning the Isabel's parents TV plea, especially the father gave me a very odd feeling.
    To me it seemed that he forced his grief/desperation expressions and voice.
    In a situation like that, IMHO, you will try to keep in control but the grief/desparation expressions and voice, once in a while, will probably "brake through" the control.
    With the father, to me, it kind of seemed like it worked the other way around, it came across odd to me.

    There was also something about the mother that didnīt seem right; at the end of her plea her facial expression, and her voice, one of a sudden change from grief/desparation to total normal facial expression and totaly normal voice, odd!

    I also agree with others that the emotional connection between the parents, throughout the plea, seem detached and cold.

    Not saying they had anything to do with Isabel's diappearence, however, so far, I would not ruel them out.

    I also donīt understand why Isabels parents didnīt wake up and checked out that their 3 dogs barked like carzy at 6:30 in the morning, VERY odd in my opinion??? I mean they had 3 children sleeping in the house.
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear over with me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    I am not really comfortable with those boundaries, or lackthereof; I guess.
    I agree, but I was hoping someone would hop in and tell me I was wrong or right. This debate went on a few days ago talking about sleuthing the parents. We were curious since no one had been named a pol. One of the mods responded with everyone is a suspect. So, maybe one will let us know for sure. jmo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby2 View Post
    It would be interesting to see if the video showed the Uncle ARRIVE at the house that morning.
    What we saw right here was a couple of people walking up and down the street, Nancy. And we think that that was maybe the father and the brother. And then the police had us right at that moment cut off the digital recording, and they took that evidence and that`s when they took it away. So we think that that was just the father...

    GRACE: ... is Isabel`s father and his brother, which would be Isabel`s uncle, walking around in front of the Celis home.

    MOORE: Nancy, that`s conjecture on my part. I think that`s who it was. The police didn`t want us to speculate about who that was.

    GRACE: OK, great. You earlier -- I get it.

    MOORE: We didn`t know Isabel`s father at the time (INAUDIBLE)

    GRACE: I get it, Rick. I get it that you don`t know who the people are. You earlier mentioned...

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../27/ng.01.html
    Yes, Shelby IMO that video surveillance footage IMO does show specifically if the uncle arrived at the Celis home that morning prior to dad discovering Isa missing.. This of course is moo but due to what IS STATED IN THE ABOVE QUOTE BY RICK MOORE(thanks to pattyG for posting transcript.. it wasn't yet available last night when I posted so was strictly going by memory from having been in the room when Nancy was on).. Again moo but if the uncle(who at the time Moore watched the video he did not know who the uncle or the father were) its IMO had Moore seen this other male with the dad have arrived at the home that morning BEFORE 8am when Isa was discovered missing.. IMO Moore would've said he saw a male arrive at the home.. And then followed by his seeing the male and dad then emerge from the home shortly after 8am.. So, IMOO his NOT saying this IMO lends credence to it being that Moore saw just what he says he saw in the dad and the male(thought to be the uncle as is corroborated by the neighbor)emerging from the home after 8am..

    I believe that Moore would have indicated that the male arrived at the home AND THEN the rest of his statement of what he saw.. While it is not specifically stated either way my own personal view is that the other male, the uncle was in the home(and had been there for ATLEAST some fairly good amount of time prior to discovering Isa missing)..But that's just my personal take on it.. I'm not at all claiming that to be a fact it's just MOO..

    Now, still even tho that's my opinion that the uncle was in the home I still have nothing indicating that he's somehow or in any way involved in Isa's disappearance.. For me almost all options are still on the table as far as possibilities of what type abduction this is(stranger, family/close friend, death covered up with abduction, etc)..

    Of course these are nothing more than jmo, tho!


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    A new picture of Isabel released on the Find Isabel facebook page.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiche View Post
    This is an ongoing controversy, but I am beginning to see it like this: this uncle may be the spouse of the biologically related aunt-- who would be the sister of Becky or Sergio. That would also explain his surname being different than everyone else's. So, I must ask: was there an aunt in the home, also? Because I think JM was there overnight, given how immediately he was seen outside the home on Saturday morning.

    Speaking of homes, home prices, and newer construction-- it seems this home was purchased during the height of the real estate bubble. This begs the question: has the Celis' mortgage ballooned into an obligation they're having trouble meeting? (like so many in the country these days) If so, the presence of the uncle may indicate they've begun sharing their home with family due to financial pressures. Though both Celis parents seem well employed, I have to state that Sergio's activity with an Opera troupe indicates to me he may only have part-time work as a hygienist... theater auditions, rehearsals, and production schedules are extremely demanding where time is concerned. (mo)

    This also brings up this sorry motive: is there a life insurance policy on Isabel?

    DH and I have discussed this possibility. We've been going to the same dental office for more than 35 years. The original dentist retired about 10 years ago, but the original dental assistant and two of the original hygienists have been there since the beginning (one just retired last month). There have been four or five hygienists over the course of 35+ years, none of whom were full-time. We've seen some of them raise families and become grandparents like ourselves.

    Having performed with local community theatre groups, I agree that the rehearsal and production schedule can be rigorous: Late nights several times weekly, Saturday, Sunday, and then one or two (or more) weekends of performances. I visited the Tucson Opera's website and noticed that they do several shows annually, so it's safe to say that Mr. Celis puts in a lot of time with the company and likely earns some type of salary for the performances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liz b. View Post
    About that window screen :

    This house was built in 2006 ? So the windows would be fairly new. I have newer windows too, and the screens cannot be taken off from the outside. Our screens have two little plastic tabs on the INSIDE. To get the screens off, you have to open the window from the inside,and pull on those plastic tabs.

    So, I do not see any abductor wasting his time struggling to take off a window screen. He would have had only a limited amount of time to take this child,and speed and stealth would have been key.

    Why on earth wouldn't he just cut the screen ? It is quicker,quieter,and would leave none of his prints on the screen...

    I can now understand why LE will never say that the window was a point of entry....MOO
    I too have newer windows with the tabs on the screens that only allow them to be removed from inside. Shortly after I moved in, I left for work and locked my keys inside. My new neighbor let me go out her bedroom window onto the porch roof and walk (on a sloped roof in heels and a skirt *LOL*) over to my window, where I could see the latch was open. I was flummoxed by the screen, but by then we'd attracted another neighbor who said not to worry about the screen. I pushed and twisted and pulled, and finally got the screen free, though it was rather bent up. Later on I thought about how dumb I was to have ruined the FRAME when I could have cut the screen. Just didn't think of it at the time.
    My posts are strictly MY opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error, or who may be offended because I do not see eye to eye with them on all matters related to this case. I hope our differences can be set aside as we unite in the search for this victim or the perpetrator of this crime. Your opinions and insights are just as valuable as mine.

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    Some stuff in scanner thread last 10 minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
    Yes, Shelby IMO that video surveillance footage IMO does show specifically if the uncle arrived at the Celis home that morning prior to dad discovering Isa missing.. This of course is moo but due to what IS STATED IN THE ABOVE QUOTE BY RICK MOORE(thanks to pattyG for posting transcript.. it wasn't yet available last night when I posted so was strictly going by memory from having been in the room when Nancy was on).. Again moo but if the uncle(who at the time Moore watched the video he did not know who the uncle or the father were) its IMO had Moore seen this other male with the dad have arrived at the home that morning BEFORE 8am when Isa was discovered missing.. IMO Moore would've said he saw a male arrive at the home.. And then followed by his seeing the male and dad then emerge from the home shortly after 8am.. So, IMOO his NOT saying this IMO lends credence to it being that Moore saw just what he says he saw in the dad and the male(thought to be the uncle as is corroborated by the neighbor)emerging from the home after 8am..

    I believe that Moore would have indicated that the male arrived at the home AND THEN the rest of his statement of what he saw.. While it is not specifically stated either way my own personal view is that the other male, the uncle was in the home(and had been there for ATLEAST some fairly good amount of time prior to discovering Isa missing)..But that's just my personal take on it.. I'm not at all claiming that to be a fact it's just MOO..

    Now, still even tho that's my opinion that the uncle was in the home I still have nothing indicating that he's somehow or in any way involved in Isa's disappearance.. For me almost all options are still on the table as far as possibilities of what type abduction this is(stranger, family/close friend, death covered up with abduction, etc)..

    Of course these are nothing more than jmo, tho!


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    I want to make sure I read this right. This Moore person is the same one who has cameras on his business? Is that correct? And last night we were thinking that his cameras did not show the Celis house. Right? But, now this is saying he saw the father and someone else that morning. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, then it must mean his cameras Do show the house. Am I right or am I reading this wrong? tia
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    Quote Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
    Do they own the home they are in right now? I would think it would be difficult to qualify for a home of that size and worth if they had a forclosure on their credit. It would be around here at least. jmo
    IIRC it was in Thread 1 or 2 that the house they live in was in foreclosure, but they saved it from being foreclosed. There are no details as to what that entailed. It may have been a home equity loan, or a personal loan, or a loan through less reputable channels. OTOH, it could be that they sold the "other house" and used the proceeds to satisfy the debt on the one they are living in.
    My posts are strictly MY opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error, or who may be offended because I do not see eye to eye with them on all matters related to this case. I hope our differences can be set aside as we unite in the search for this victim or the perpetrator of this crime. Your opinions and insights are just as valuable as mine.

    Make a difference. Read my story in the CAPER - Citizens Against Pedophile's Early Release Forum
    or visit http://noparole4pedophile.weebly.com/ for background on the case of Donald Scott Brunstetter, including photos, supporting documents, a blog, educational information, and resources/sources of help if you find yourself or a loved on in a similar situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAXIMUS View Post
    Nobody seems to have an answer for that question yet, it seems he may have been staying with them given the circumstances you cite, i.e. he was there right at 8 am when she was discovered missing, so either he had planned to be there for some reason maybe he was helping coach the team and they had a ballgame or something that morning and he was there that early for that reason or he was already there because he was staying there as it seems unlikely that he called to come over when she went missing because he got there too fast for that it seems to me, unless he lives very closely, like around the block or something but as I recall he has no known address in Tucson.

    Do we know if the Uncle has a job here in Tucson or is he just visiting Tucson and is from elsewhere?


    Some think the Uncle was involved, I havent gotten to that point myself yet as I see no reason to assume he would do that to his niece and without some sort of evidence to suggest that I just cant bring myself to stat accusing him at this point.


    Is this Uncle on Mom's side and he must be a HALF BROTHER to mom if so as his name (its in the ABCNEWS article from early on) is JUSTIN MASTROMARINO and Mom's maiden name is SNYDER, so maybe he is a HALF BROTHER they have same mother for example but different fathers which explains the different last names.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-tuc...1#.T5u6-qs7XYc
    Yesterday there was discussion that the uncle is actually a cousin to, I am assuming the mother, because she appears to be half non-Hispanic (her FB has photos of grandpa's grave and the last name is "Snyder").

    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    According to his fb page he went to Tucson University so I don't know why people assume he's not from Tucson. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm also missing his alleged criminal record.
    It has been referred to here, not posted, though. I did find mention of it online somewhere else, though I have not seen it officially. A poster here did look it up. I believe there are drugs and DUI charges.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownRice View Post
    To me (maybe not anybody else?), there is still confusion about this "uncle":

    1. How is he an uncle (SC's brother, BC's brother, some other relation but not really an "uncle" by definition;

    2. Was he staying at the house or did he arrive in the morning?

    If the uncle is involved, I cannot imagine SC helping him cover up the scene of his own child, unless of course he was involved as well, which I don't think at this point........

    I do have to say though last night (maybe on NG or the show after hers), they ran a clip of the infamous Susan Smith begging for her boys' lives and she never looked up to the camera. It was eerily similar to SC's news conference.
    I kind of get what you mean. That case impacted a lot of the country. Many people believed her and when they found she was lying, took a second a look at the infamous plea (no tears).

    Quote Originally Posted by PAXIMUS View Post
    What is this video of I dont understand this isnt her house?
    LE released a video of five people walking down an alley near Isabel's house. It is three girls and two guys. They are trying to id those five people. We discussed this A LOT last night (although I missed the first part of the discussion), so it is in the beginning of this thread and the end of thread 6.

    Posters have determined exactly where the location they were walking, is. They posted labeled maps with this location in relation to Isabel's home. Also, interestingly, apparently LE stated that they have talked to "everyone in the video" except the five, which would make the shadowy figure who appears to be lurking, a red herring, if true.

    But it does look weird because it can look as if he did not want to be seen by the group.

    Quote Originally Posted by alwayslooking View Post
    This is the only case in United States modern history that I know of where a child alone was abducted by a cartel. It is an exception, not the rule. Further, the family was heavily involved in drugs and dealing. They looked it too. Isabel's family does not fit that profile at all. They don't live in a run down house with tons of drug convictions, etc. And no one has stepped forward like they did with Cole's case, to state that tons of people were always coming in and out of the house.

    In this case, we have two seemingly normal parents with steady jobs and a working to middle class house, who are active in their children's lives, and apparently, the community.

    But, who knows. I guess anything is possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
    Listening to the parents' accents, I'm going to say, I don't think English is their first language, so personally I can't put much into the uncle using the past tense.
    Have you seen the video? Doubtful the "uncle" is a first generation Hispanic. I don't know that he is Hispanic at all. And based on my experience, the parents seem solidly second generation to me. Lots of us second generation kids can speak Spanish but have zero problems with English.

    You can see the uncle in video here, at around the 2:10 mark or so: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-arizona-home/
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  20. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
    I think it is .4 miles BY CAR. Ask Google for directions, and you will see that they show a right turn onto the divided highway... the direction AWAY from Isa's home. Then there is a u-turn to get onto the correct side of the highway and then the mileage back to where you entered the roadway at the church, and then a block further to Isabel's home. So it is one block on foot, .4 miles by car, because of the divided roadway that forces a driver to travel in the wrong direction until he can turn around and go the right way.
    Above BBM for specific emphasis!!

    Moo but this definitely deserves repeating for emphasis as IMO the googled drive distance is EXTREMELY MISLEADING and upon just looking at the drive distance and not looking at a map to see the factual extremely close proximity of where the "mystery man" is from the Celis home..
    It's ONE BLOCK, if that and that is NOT A "city block" but rather a residential neighborhood block .. If one were to measure it off I'd guesstimate it as being UNDER 50yards away is the Celis home from where the "mystery man" is seen on the corner lot..

    Moo but it's definitely worth the few moments its takes to review the newly released YT video of 1:15mins in length.. That way each person can see for themselves just what a very short distance that this "mystery man" is seen from the Celis home.. And IMO even more concerning he is there alone, attempting to conceal his being there from the group of 5 people that are seen walking by, and the fact that this was 1:30am the actual morning of Isabel's abduction.. Definitely possible to somehow be linked to what's happened to Isa.. Coincidences such as this really are few and far between in investigations of abduction/homicide..

    Again all jmo, tho!



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    Quote Originally Posted by KaylynnCouture View Post


    A new picture of Isabel released on the Find Isabel facebook page.
    Thanks! I wish we could see a recent photo showing her missing teeth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
    I want to make sure I read this right. This Moore person is the same one who has cameras on his business? Is that correct? And last night we were thinking that his cameras did not show the Celis house. Right? But, now this is saying he saw the father and someone else that morning. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, then it must mean his cameras Do show the house. Am I right or am I reading this wrong? tia
    Yes you are correct this is Rick Moore owner of Moore Surveillance Systems and YES YOU ARE CORRECT THAT ATLEAST ONE OF HIS CAMERAS ON THE BACK OF HIS BUSINESS HAS A CLEAR, UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW OF THE CELIS HOME.. Below I posted a pic that I've drawn a diagram estimated as the path of the view from the business to the Celis home.. If anyone would like to confirm this for themselves you can simply go to the original article and video titled, "Is surveillance video key to missing girls investigation"..(I'll edit in a direct link after I find it).. In the 2-3min news video clip you will not only hear Rick Moore speak about what he saw(just as he spoke about what he saw on NG transcript from the quote you replied to above) in the transcript Rick states that the video shows two men emerging from Celis home shortly after 8am(those two unknown to Moore when he initially watched the footage but now believe the two men were Isa's dad and uncle).. Also on the news video you will see a clip of the surveillance footage from the camera(NOT THE IMPORTANT FOOTAGE) but rather Moore just shows a clip that shows the clear unobstructed view of the Celis home from one of his back surveillance cams..

    There is definitely a clear, unobstructed view of the Celis home from one of Moore's surveillance cameras..

    ETA: Here is the link to the kvoa article with video(my apologies that it's a mobile link as I'm via mobile at the moment but there is a click for full website at bottom of linked page)
    http://www.kvoa.com/mobile/news/is-s...nvestigation-/
    The video within this article is the one where Rick Moore shows an actual video clip in which you can see his surveillance camera's clear, unobstructed view of the Celis home.. HTH



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    Quote Originally Posted by dimples37398 View Post
    Yes, Mount Lemmon is about 1 - 1 1/2 hours from the area that her house is in. But plenty of places that one could dispose of evidence on the way up the mountain.
    Or even a mile from the home. We have vast washes, range lands, ranches and lots of empty lots. Also lots of seasonal homes; meaning they are empty half the year (warmer months).

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    SmoothOperator, thanks, that is amazing, almost miraculous that the view is so straight on.

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    Hoping for a miracle today!

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    I just had a group of people watch this video (I am a bit late on watching it, my apologies)

    First, have the dogs been brought into the search for Isa? And, did they happen to go by this church?

    Second, where *I am from, churches in our neighborhood homed the clergy, so could this have been people that are part of the church? Like, groundskeepers?

    I dunno, it is a bit scary. We were watching in broad daylight and a few of us here burst out loud "Is that a ghost? OMG, is that two ghosts?"

    The others aren't watching this story like I am. So they watched that video without any backstory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
    I want to make sure I read this right. This Moore person is the same one who has cameras on his business? Is that correct? And last night we were thinking that his cameras did not show the Celis house. Right? But, now this is saying he saw the father and someone else that morning. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, then it must mean his cameras Do show the house. Am I right or am I reading this wrong? tia
    The location of his business originally appeared to give an "obstructed view" of the FRONT of the Celis' home. The assumption was based on thinking his business was the end of the group nearest the road, when it is actually several doors down from the corner. Therefore, the 2-story building in between the two is WAY off to the right of the camera;s field of view. He DOES have a clear shot of the Celis' front door and driveway.

    The video LE released is from a different source, apparently a camera mounted on the church roof, based on the view of the parking lot below. If you watch the video, between :50 and 1:10, a young adult male (apparently) appears about 1/3 of the way down the left edge of the screen. He appears to duck into shadows before the group passes, and to "sneak" out afterward, look to be sure they are gone, and return towards the left edge of the screen. There the video ends. This video is taken less than a block from Isabel's house. The street the group walks up is East Cooper, the next street to Isa's, essentially BEHIND Isa's home, and her room is in the back. See the map in the opening post.
    My posts are strictly MY opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error, or who may be offended because I do not see eye to eye with them on all matters related to this case. I hope our differences can be set aside as we unite in the search for this victim or the perpetrator of this crime. Your opinions and insights are just as valuable as mine.

    Make a difference. Read my story in the CAPER - Citizens Against Pedophile's Early Release Forum
    or visit http://noparole4pedophile.weebly.com/ for background on the case of Donald Scott Brunstetter, including photos, supporting documents, a blog, educational information, and resources/sources of help if you find yourself or a loved on in a similar situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
    The location of his business originally appeared to give an "obstructed view" of the FRONT of the Celis' home. The assumption was based on thinking his business was the end of the group nearest the road, when it is actually several doors down from the corner. Therefore, the 2-story building in between the two is WAY off to the right of the camera;s field of view. He DOES have a clear shot of the Celis' front door and driveway.

    The video LE released is from a different source, apparently a camera mounted on the church roof, based on the view of the parking lot below. If you watch the video, between :50 and 1:10, a young adult male (apparently) appears about 1/3 of the way down the left edge of the screen. He appears to duck into shadows before the group passes, and to "sneak" out afterward, look to be sure they are gone, and return towards the left edge of the screen. There the video ends. This video is taken less than a block from Isabel's house. The street the group walks up is East Cooper, the next street to Isa's, essentially BEHIND Isa's home, and her room is in the back. See the map in the opening post.


    Yes, I saw all that last night. My stomach jumped into my throat when I saw the image. But, the show stopper for me is that a Camera does show the Celis house. I think this is huge. There was so much debate about that yesterday and I am so glad it has been cleared up. There is no telling what LE has. Maybe the whole area is on video. I knew that store had to have more than one camera. Thanks for your post.
    My prayers are for the innocent.

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  38. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by MvD View Post
    I wasn't thinking cartel, but someone trading Isabel for drugs on a personal basis.. Again, just brainstorming out loud... I just don't see this as a stranger abduction, We can all agree that statistics show how rare those are. That leaves someone close to or within the family, and that leaves only a very few 'reasons' for someone taking Isabel...
    How about a neighbor or someone associated with the little league teams? Someone not close but who may have been in the house once or twice?
    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    I just read what one neighbor said about why the Celis' (Sergio and Becky) moved to that house.

    "The Pikes say the Celis family is very loving and very caring. They moved into the neighborhood so they could be closer to one of their mother's who suffered a stroke."
    KVOA

    The grandfather has appeared on camera, but he seemed to stick very close to his house. I now understand why.

    The abuelos are Sergio's parents.
    First thing I thought of when I heard possible criticism of the abuelos for not speaking out - that they may be too old or too sick.

    But, I will go a step further. This little girl has a large extended family in Tuscon, it appears. We have only seen some of them at the presser when the family made their statement.

    But, if we connect the dots via FB, the family appears to be very, very active in finding Isabel. Fundraisers, flyer drives, arranging masses for Isabel, talking to businesses, etc. I do not at all agree that Hispanic families would be all over the news at a time like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    My thoughts weren't necessarily regarding illegal narcotics. Becky Celis is a nurse who likely has access to prescription narcotics at TMC. Having been involved in dance and theatre, I know that there is a lot of alcohol and drug use, illicit sexual activity, etc. associated with performing artists. It's possible that Sergio Celis comes in contact with unsavory characters through the local opera company. I'm not suggesting that the parents are involved in Isabel's disappearance; I'm simply pointing out a possibility based on personal experience.
    Well, I kind of have to smile a tiny, tiny bit! My whole family are musicians, both sides. Flamenco, jazz, middle eastern, rock and classical. My brothers have performed in classical music orchestras off and on since childhood (youth symphony orchestras as children). One is currently playing bass in two orchestras.

    Drugs are certainly a huge part of the music/performance industry. But not in classical, which includes opera. The most you might get is a bit too much wine drinking at an end of season party or possibly a few people with a secret "personal" problem.

    My oldest brother did a lot of "partying" in his early 20's. It was for exactly that reason he did not stay, at that time, on the classical, serious route as a career and veered off into jazz and rock. He is now back in classical orchestras and regrets being immature and wanting to party instead of fostering his career in the more disciplined, serious world of classical.

    I've seen it all my life. They are much more responsible, have stricter schedules and tend to be comprised of carefully nurtured adults who come from straight families that could afford classical music training and who spent a childhood and early adulthood practicing and playing, rather than partying. So it's kind of not the same environment as the rest of the music world.

    I just don't see a big drug connection that led to drug debts or whatever, coming from Sergio's opera career. But, I guess anything is possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
    I have a question and that is why do some people think the uncle may be involved. Can we sleuth him? Does he have a reputation, drug involvement? The interviews I have seen he appears caucasion. Or am I seeing someone else? I am not saying he couldn't be but I haven't seen anything to make me think so. Can you direct me to something? tia
    I don't know that he is. Nothing about him concerned me until I realized he was using the past tense and that he may have been a self-appointed spokesperson to the annoyance of the family. Here's what I posted yesterday on reasons why some are concerned about the uncle. I'm adding the past tense verbiage:

    1.Someone likely had to know which room was Isabel's if she was taken from the house. To me, a likely scenario is that someone fixated on her and decided to "take" her. That someone must have been watching the family and the house or knew the home layout well and the family patterns. So, someone close.
    2. The uncle has been on the news. People don't know who else is involved with this family. So, they hone in on him.
    3. Many posters have been molested by uncles and view it as a viable concern in this case.
    4. Some people got a hinky vibe when hearing him speak on the news.
    5. Some people are concerned that he has references to bikini season and half naked women on his FB (I'm not. That points AWAY from being a pedophile to me, and is probably not abnormal for a young, single guy, although for many it seems to give them an overall "pervy" vibe).
    6. He apparently has a criminal record of some kind. I don't know what that is, haven't seen it and so I don't know whether it is relevant.
    7. FB posts of his indicate a move or visit to AZ around Jan. of last year.
    8. Shortly after those posts, the uncle posted he loved being loved and loved being an uncle, which may indicate a new relationship with Isabel and her brothers.
    9. Since Isabel is missing, it is logical to look at anything different in the family dynamic. An uncle who moved there a little over a year ago, could be that change.
    10. Apparently the neighbor states the uncle came by with the dad around 8:00 a.m.. We don't know if it is this uncle but if so, it indicates he was there or very nearby.
    11. Someone posted that on another site, it was indicated the uncle was not appointed the family spokesperson, took it upon himself early on to insert himself in the case with the media and that the family is annoyed by this. I will note that if true, that would raise an alarm with me. But, for now this is rumor only. I also note that we have not seen him on the news since the early days of the investigation.
    12. He used the past tense when speaking about Isabel, only two days after she was reported missing.


    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
    Above BBM for specific emphasis!!

    Moo but this definitely deserves repeating for emphasis as IMO the googled drive distance is EXTREMELY MISLEADING and upon just looking at the drive distance and not looking at a map to see the factual extremely close proximity of where the "mystery man" is from the Celis home..
    It's ONE BLOCK, if that and that is NOT A "city block" but rather a residential neighborhood block .. If one were to measure it off I'd guesstimate it as being UNDER 50yards away is the Celis home from where the "mystery man" is seen on the corner lot..

    Moo but it's definitely worth the few moments its takes to review the newly released YT video of 1:15mins in length.. That way each person can see for themselves just what a very short distance that this "mystery man" is seen from the Celis home.. And IMO even more concerning he is there alone, attempting to conceal his being there from the group of 5 people that are seen walking by, and the fact that this was 1:30am the actual morning of Isabel's abduction.. Definitely possible to somehow be linked to what's happened to Isa.. Coincidences such as this really are few and far between in investigations of abduction/homicide..

    Again all jmo, tho!
    ___________________...
    Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess
    I was shocked to see how close her house is to commercial areas. Just yards. I had no idea.
    Last edited by gitana1; 04-28-2012 at 03:20 PM.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  40. #396
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    I can't stop thinking about Bethany Marshall talking about what an FBI Behavior Analyst's involvement would be for. She said it's to determine the dynamics of the home: is the child valued, are there toys (including those for future use at an older age) for the girl, is she deemed valuable to the family, etc.? I can't stop thinking about the reference to Isabel sharing a room with 2 brothers. That's NOT normal to me, especially if she's put in the boys' room to make room for another person to stay in the home. Putting her in with 2 boys (14 and 10) doesn't seem as though she's being treated as "valued."

    And yes, the father is involved in the boys' games, to the point of coaching the team(s?). But does he value the daughter? Does he value the wife? Are women deemed valuable to the father? <modsnip>. Is the wife subservient? Is that their dynamic?

    The father seemed forcibly false IMO when he was speaking. His words were bizarre and awkward, and his tone/pitch started getting higher as though desperate. But it rang completely false - the rise in pitch seemed like acting. And the mother seemed truly afraid. And I can understand her having fear: 1) her daughter is missing, and 2) she's speaking into microphones in front of the media (frankly, if my daughter was missing, I think my fear of public speaking might fall to the wayside, but who knows?). She is clearly reading. Is it what the FATHER prepared and told (forced?) her to say? Is she fearful she might say it wrong and suffer repercussions?

    Those are my gut reactions. I fear Isabel was sold as payoff or in trade of drugs (cocaine) for the father's use/habit. I have no facts to back this up, just gut. I don't know any statistics, but I suspect that children who are sold into sex trafficking are long gone into underground networks and never seen again. And I think LE, including the FBI, has a strong suspicion of this.

    I fear that Isabel is alive and living under the worst possible circumstances. I am not religious but I pray for this child, her mother and siblings. I surely hope I am wrong.
    Last edited by Salem; 04-28-2012 at 05:07 PM. Reason: modsnipped per request from poster - incorrect info

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  42. #397
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    Isa sleeping in her brothers room has not been confirmed. Even if she was moved out of her room for a relative to stay over that doesn't mean they don't value her. In my family its very common if a family member comes to stay that the kids share a room so that visitor can have a room of their own. Moms fb tells me that Isa is a very valued member of the family imo.

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  44. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiche View Post
    This is an ongoing controversy, but I am beginning to see it like this: this uncle may be the spouse of the biologically related aunt-- who would be the sister of Becky or Sergio. That would also explain his surname being different than everyone else's. So, I must ask: was there an aunt in the home, also? Because I think JM was there overnight, given how immediately he was seen outside the home on Saturday morning.

    Speaking of homes, home prices, and newer construction-- it seems this home was purchased during the height of the real estate bubble. This begs the question: has the Celis' mortgage ballooned into an obligation they're having trouble meeting? (like so many in the country these days) If so, the presence of the uncle may indicate they've begun sharing their home with family due to financial pressures. Though both Celis parents seem well employed, I have to state that Sergio's activity with an Opera troupe indicates to me he may only have part-time work as a hygienist... theater auditions, rehearsals, and production schedules are extremely demanding where time is concerned. (mo)

    This also brings up this sorry motive: is there a life insurance policy on Isabel?


    This might answer your question. ScannerChatter page 5 post #101
    "A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

    - Mohandas Gandhi


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  46. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boodles View Post
    I can't stop thinking about Bethany Marshall talking about what an FBI Behavior Analyst's involvement would be for. She said it's to determine the dynamics of the home: is the child valued, are there toys (including those for future use at an older age) for the girl, is she deemed valuable to the family, etc.? I can't stop thinking about the reference to Isabel sharing a room with 2 brothers. That's NOT normal to me, especially if she's put in the boys' room to make room for another person to stay in the home. Putting her in with 2 boys (14 and 10) doesn't seem as though she's being treated as "valued."

    And yes, the father is involved in the boys' games, to the point of coaching the team(s?). But does he value the daughter? Does he value the wife? Are women deemed valuable to the father? <modsnip>. Is the wife subservient? Is that their dynamic?

    The father seemed forcibly false IMO when he was speaking. His words were bizarre and awkward, and his tone/pitch started getting higher as though desperate. But it rang completely false - the rise in pitch seemed like acting. And the mother seemed truly afraid. And I can understand her having fear: 1) her daughter is missing, and 2) she's speaking into microphones in front of the media (frankly, if my daughter was missing, I think my fear of public speaking might fall to the wayside, but who knows?). She is clearly reading. Is it what the FATHER prepared and told (forced?) her to say? Is she fearful she might say it wrong and suffer repercussions?

    Those are my gut reactions. I fear Isabel was sold as payoff or in trade of drugs (cocaine) for the father's use/habit. I have no facts to back this up, just gut. I don't know any statistics, but I suspect that children who are sold into sex trafficking are long gone into underground networks and never seen again. And I think LE, including the FBI, has a strong suspicion of this.

    I fear that Isabel is alive and living under the worst possible circumstances. I am not religious but I pray for this child, her mother and siblings. I surely hope I am wrong.
    To my knowledge, although people discuss such a network as fact all the time, there is about as much proof as to the existence of some underground sex trafficking network involving the sale of small children (note, I did not say teens), as there is of Satanic cult sacrifices, in America.

    Yeah, there are random dirt bags ala Shaniya Davis' scumbag egg donor, who sell their kid to someone they know, but man, they usually have the background, the history of child abuse, neglect, squalor, drug crimes, heavy drug use etc., that goes with such a decision.

    These parents both have steady jobs, a home they own, a seemingly tight-knit family, tons of heavy involvement in their kids extracurricular activities, like Little League, trips to historic places, etc., they seem active in the community -dad with opera, mom with marathons and both with church.

    They simply don't have one thing in common with any of the dirt bags we have seen who have sold or tried to sell their kids for drugs or alcohol.
    Last edited by Salem; 04-28-2012 at 05:07 PM.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  48. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patty G
    Rick actually stated:
    What we saw right here was a couple of people walking up and down the street, Nancy. And we think that that was maybe the father and the brother. And then the police had us right at that moment cut off the digital recording, and they took that evidence and that`s when they took it away. So we think that that was just the father...

    GRACE: ... is Isabel`s father and his brother, which would be Isabel`s uncle, walking around in front of the Celis home.(snip)

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../27/ng.01.html


    Quote Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
    Moore did not say "father and his brother" he said "the father and THE brother" which I understood to mean ISABEL's father and ISABEL's brother. Then (in typical fashion) Nancy turns his words around to mean something else. THE "UNCLE" IN QUESTION IS NOT THE FATHER'S BROTHER.
    I never posted "his", I posted "THE" brother.
    Pekingese "Best Of Show" 2012

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