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Thread: AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #7

  1. #401
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    I'm not referring to staying in her brothers' room for one night. I heard (don't know if it's true) that she usually, or that is was common for her to, stay in her brothers' room. There's a photo from July 2011 where the "brother's" (cousin?) jeep is parked in front of the house. I feel he stayed there a lot and Isa's room was used by him. This is of course speculation, I just have a gut feeling. And it's not the mother's value for Isa I question.

    Another comment that comes to mind is Fabian Pacheco (LE) saying that things are not always as they appear. Just because the father coaches little league does not mean all is blissful inside the family home. I HOPE IT WAS! But my gut feels otherwise.

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  3. #402
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    Where are people coming up with Dad's age? I have seen it range from 38-52 here...just wondering...
    Just my opinion, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boodles View Post
    I'm not referring to staying in her brothers' room for one night. I heard (don't know if it's true) that she usually, or that is was common for her to, stay in her brothers' room. There's a photo from July 2011 where the "brother's" (cousin?) jeep is parked in front of the house. I feel he stayed there a lot and Isa's room was used by him. This is of course speculation, I just have a gut feeling. And it's not the mother's value for Isa I question.
    The only source of her sleeping in her brother's room regularly is Nancy Grace and they can't even name the specific report they heard it from.

    I would not take it as a fact at all, not even close to one until LE says it is.

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  7. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    Where are people coming up with Dad's age? I have seen it range from 38-52 here...just wondering...
    His date of birth from legal records is listed 12/1970 which would make him turning 42 this year.

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  9. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rdw1981 View Post
    Ok, just watched the video on my iPhone. My screen is small so I'm sure what I saw is the mysterious figure or not. Is it on the opposite side of the walkers in the upper corner?
    Thinkzerz posted a pic with the area circled in the previous thread, post #871
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...170323&page=35

    It took me awhile to see what everyone else was seeing, but once I tilted my screen so it wasn't so bright I clearly saw a male walking past in the same direction of the five people and then start walking back.

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  11. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patty G View Post
    I never posted "his", I posted "THE" brother.
    I think the poster was criticizing NG, not you!
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  13. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaylynnCouture View Post
    His date of birth from legal records is listed 12/1970 which would make him turning 42 this year.
    So, he's 41, not 52. I'm hoping we can try to keep facts straight here, on websleuths. I hate to have an error or rumor become fact that we may base our opinions on!!
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  15. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stash777 View Post
    Thinkzerz posted a pic with the area circled in the previous thread, post #871
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...170323&page=35

    It took me awhile to see what everyone else was seeing, but once I tilted my screen so it wasn't so bright I clearly saw a male walking past in the same direction of the five people and then start walking back.
    It came to mind last night, when some people were having trouble seeing the figure, that some people's monitors may be adjusted too bright.

    But, again, there have been links indicating that LE wants to talk to the 5 people and has talked to everyone else who may be in the video. Does that indicate the luring figure is a red herring?
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  17. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    How about a neighbor or someone associated with the little league teams? Someone not close but who may have been in the house once or twice?


    First thing I thought of when I heard possible criticism of the abuelos for not speaking out - that they may be too old or too sick.

    But, I will go a step further. This little girl has a large extended family in Tuscon, it appears. We have only seen some of them at the presser when the family made their statement.

    But, if we connect the dots via FB, the family appears to be very, very active in finding Isabel. Fundraisers, flyer drives, arranging masses for Isabel, talking to businesses, etc. I do not at all agree that Hispanic families would be all over the news at a time like this.



    Well, I kind of have to smile a tiny, tiny bit! My whole family are musicians, both sides. Flamenco, jazz, middle eastern, rock and classical. My brothers have performed in classical music orchestras off and on since childhood (youth symphony orchestras as children). One is currently playing bass in two orchestras.

    Drugs are certainly a huge part of the music/performance industry. But not in classical, which includes opera. The most you might get is a bit too much wine drinking at an end of season party or possibly a few people with a secret "personal" problem.

    My oldest brother did a lot of "partying" in his early 20's. It was for exactly that reason he did not stay, at that time, on the classical, serious route as a career and veered off into jazz and rock. He is now back in classical orchestras and regrets being immature and wanting to party instead of fostering his career in the more disciplined, serious world of classical.

    I've seen it all my life. They are much more responsible, have stricter schedules and tend to be comprised of carefully nurtured adults who come from straight families that could afford classical music training and who spent a childhood and early adulthood practicing and playing, rather than partying. So it's kind of not the same environment as the rest of the music world.

    I just don't see a big drug connection that led to drug debts or whatever, coming from Sergio's opera career. But, I guess anything is possible.



    I don't know that he is. Nothing about him concerned me until I realized he was using the past tense and that he may have been a self-appointed spokesperson to the annoyance of the family. Here's what I posted yesterday on reasons why some are concerned about the uncle. I'm adding the past tense verbiage:

    1.Someone likely had to know which room was Isabel's if she was taken from the house. To me, a likely scenario is that someone fixated on her and decided to "take" her. That someone must have been watching the family and the house or knew the home layout well and the family patterns. So, someone close.
    2. The uncle has been on the news. People don't know who else is involved with this family. So, they hone in on him.
    3. Many posters have been molested by uncles and view it as a viable concern in this case.
    4. Some people got a hinky vibe when hearing him speak on the news.
    5. Some people are concerned that he has references to bikini season and half naked women on his FB (I'm not. That points AWAY from being a pedophile to me, and is probably not abnormal for a young, single guy, although for many it seems to give them an overall "pervy" vibe).
    6. He apparently has a criminal record of some kind. I don't know what that is, haven't seen it and so I don't know whether it is relevant.
    7. FB posts of his indicate a move or visit to AZ around Jan. of last year.
    8. Shortly after those posts, the uncle posted he loved being loved and loved being an uncle, which may indicate a new relationship with Isabel and her brothers.
    9. Since Isabel is missing, it is logical to look at anything different in the family dynamic. An uncle who moved there a little over a year ago, could be that change.
    10. Apparently the neighbor states the uncle came by with the dad around 8:00 a.m.. We don't know if it is this uncle but if so, it indicates he was there or very nearby.
    11. Someone posted that on another site, it was indicated the uncle was not appointed the family spokesperson, took it upon himself early on to insert himself in the case with the media and that the family is annoyed by this. I will note that if true, that would raise an alarm with me. But, for now this is rumor only. I also note that we have not seen him on the news since the early days of the investigation.
    12. He used the past tense when speaking about Isabel, only two days after she was reported missing.



    I was shocked to see how close her house is to commercial areas. Just yards. I had no idea.
    Can you direct me to him saying anything about Isa in the past tense. I cannot find it and I have looked based on people posting that. Thanks.
    My prayers are for the innocent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Yesterday Have you seen the video? Doubtful the "uncle" is a first generation Hispanic. I don't know that he is Hispanic at all. And based on my experience, the parents seem solidly second generation to me. Lots of us second generation kids can speak Spanish but have zero problems with English.

    You can see the uncle in video here, at around the 2:10 mark or so: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-arizona-home/
    I didn't see any guy identified as the uncle in your link, except one non-LE guy who very briefly spoke a few words... is that the guy you mean? He doesn't look AT ALL hispanic to me. We must not be seeing the same video.
    I watched a short clip several days ago of a hispanic guy who seemed to be speaking for the family, and I didn't get the impression he was LE, no uniform, but he may have been. Not the dad, I saw that interview too. The guy I saw seemed to be a little emotional, too, so I assumed he was family or close friend. I guess I'm just confused.
    I know that some second generation hispanics speak very good English, but a lot of it depends on what language was spoken at home. If they speak primarily Spanish at home, then the kids will have a harder time learning English in school. These parents do not seem to be second-generation to me, their accents were strong, IMO.
    All I was saying earlier is, in my experience, when people are bilingual, but the primary language is Spanish, they are mentally translating into English what they are thinking in Spanish, while trying to speak in one or the other at the same time. So it may be a little difficult to use the correct tense of a word. I'm told that English is one of the most difficult languages to learn and most Americans don't even speak it correctly.
    But what do I know?
    Last edited by Salem; 04-28-2012 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Fix quote

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  21. #411
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    So, he's 41, not 52. I'm hoping we can try to keep facts straight here, on websleuths. I hate to have an error or rumor become fact that we may base our opinions on!!
    I originally thought he was 52 also because when you do a people search (can't remember which site) but it says SC listed at that address is 52. Im thinking that's where people are getting that from but others have confirmed the birth records making him 41 as you said.

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  23. #412
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    oops

    Quote Originally Posted by KaylynnCouture View Post
    His date of birth from legal records is listed 12/1970 which would make him turning 42 this year.
    Kaylynn, you're right, I stand corrected. Thnx for the correction.

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  25. #413
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    Does anyone have a link to the video of the mysterious person in it? It may have been posted here and I searched through older threads but couldn't find it...

    Never assume a missing child is dead

    "One missing child is one too many.” - John Walsh

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  27. #414
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    This is an updated article. It almost seems LE is looking for someone specific without sounding specific.

    "Additionally, Tucson Police are seeking video or photos from parents and visitors at Freedom Park last Friday April 20th. Police say there are no video cameras in place at parks so parents who may have snapped or recorded anything should come forward, even if they don't think they captured anything important."

    http://www.kvoa.com/news/celis-inves...nd-week-66214/


    "Several parents tell 9OYS they remember seeing Isabel running around, playing, having a good time. One parent recalls Isabel eating some potato chips, choking momentarily on a chip, before a little league mom gave her some water and patted her on the back. The fun continued around the dugout that night. Hours later though, she'd be missing.

    "Everyone is doing all we can to bring her back," Vega said.

    At Friday night's game, players and parents were still on edge.

    "Boys in the neighborhood are saying I sleep with my baseball bat coach," family friend and little league coach George Hannah said. "If someone was out here watching Isabel, I wonder do they know who my daughters are, do they know where I live, are other children being targeted as well? It frightens me."

    More at link: http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/149341755.html


    The kids are so scared they are sleeping with their bats!

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  29. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
    Can you direct me to him saying anything about Isa in the past tense. I cannot find it and I have looked based on people posting that. Thanks.
    Apr 22, 2012 10:45am
    Open Window Shows Missing Tucson Girl Was Abducted, Parents Say

    Mastromarino described his niece as “just a sweet little girl.”
    “All the ambition in the world. She could do whatever she wanted. Didn’t really like strangers or anything like that so very close knitted and just very wise,” said Mastromarino.
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-arizona-home/
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  31. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNGirl615 View Post
    Does anyone have a link to the video of the mysterious person in it? It may have been posted here and I searched through older threads but couldn't find it...
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZLqsW-cNYg&feature=player_embedded"]Surveillance Video Footage 200 Block S Craycroft - Isabel Celis Disappearance - YouTube[/ame]

    At :50 look in the upper left hand corner, behind the wall. Watch to the end when it reappears.

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  33. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNGirl615 View Post
    Does anyone have a link to the video of the mysterious person in it? It may have been posted here and I searched through older threads but couldn't find it...
    I posted it in the very first post on this thread, for easy reference.

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  35. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
    I didn't see any guy identified as the uncle in your link, except one non-LE guy who very briefly spoke a few words... is that the guy you mean? He doesn't look AT ALL hispanic to me. We must not be seeing the same video.
    I watched a short clip several days ago of a hispanic guy who seemed to be speaking for the family, and I didn't get the impression he was LE, no uniform, but he may have been. Not the dad, I saw that interview too. The guy I saw seemed to be a little emotional, too, so I assumed he was family or close friend. I guess I'm just confused.
    I know that some second generation hispanics speak very good English, but a lot of it depends on what language was spoken at home. If they speak primarily Spanish at home, then the kids will have a harder time learning English in school. These parents do not seem to be second-generation to me, their accents were strong, IMO.
    All I was saying earlier is, in my experience, when people are bilingual, but the primary language is Spanish, they are mentally translating into English what they are thinking in Spanish, while trying to speak in one or the other at the same time. So it may be a little difficult to use the correct tense of a word. I'm told that English is one of the most difficult languages to learn and most Americans don't even speak it correctly.
    But what do I know?
    Got ya'. Below is the link to the video. He's the very, very white blond guy who is saying, "Everything goes through your mind, you’re angry, you’re upset, you’re frustrated, you’re confused" and he's quoted as Isabel's uncle and family spokesperson, although there has been question as to whether the family asked him to be the spokesperson and whether they were annoyed by him inserting himself into the case. There is also questions as to whether he is Isabel's uncle or a cousin.

    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  37. #419
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    I can see that could be intrepreted as talking as if she were gone, but I think it is just bad use of the tenses. At least I hope so. ty
    My prayers are for the innocent.

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    When I heard the Celis' home was near bars, the first thing I thought was public urination. If the bars near their home don't have parking lots (inner city issues), the patrons park in other store lots and they urinate everywhere on the way back to their cars. Patrons also "bar crawl" to and from other bars in the area and urinate along their paths. Maybe the mystery person is just urinating?

    My church sits in a small area with bars/restaurants (like the Celis' home). One must avoid numerous urine spots after Friday and Saturday nights and Steeler's or Penguin's games.

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  41. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    snipped



    Have you seen the video? Doubtful the "uncle" is a first generation Hispanic. I don't know that he is Hispanic at all. And based on my experience, the parents seem solidly second generation to me. Lots of us second generation kids can speak Spanish but have zero problems with English.

    You can see the uncle in video here, at around the 2:10 mark or so: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-arizona-home/
    I didn't see any guy identified as the uncle in your link, except one non-LE guy who very briefly spoke a few words... is that the guy you mean? He doesn't look AT ALL hispanic to me. We must not be seeing the same video.
    I watched a short clip several days ago of a hispanic guy who seemed to be speaking for the family, and I didn't get the impression he was LE, no uniform, but he may have been. Not the dad, I saw that interview too. The guy I saw seemed to be a little emotional, too, so I assumed he was family or close friend. I guess I'm just confused.
    I know that some second generation hispanics speak very good English, but a lot of it depends on what language was spoken at home. If they speak primarily Spanish at home, then the kids will have a harder time learning English in school. These parents do not seem to be second-generation to me, their accents were strong, IMO.
    All I was saying earlier is, in my experience, when people are bilingual, but the primary language is Spanish, they are mentally translating into English what they are thinking in Spanish, while trying to speak in one or the other at the same time. So it may be a little difficult to use the correct tense of a word. I'm told that English is one of the most difficult languages to learn and most Americans don't even speak it correctly.
    But what do I know?
    The guy that says something along the lines of "all of a sudden you wake up and you are in that situation" looks very much like the Uncle. JM. I personally think that is him, judging by photos I have seen of him.
    Last edited by Salem; 04-28-2012 at 05:28 PM. Reason: fix quote
    ^^^^ everything up there is Moo

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  43. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    snipped



    Have you seen the video? Doubtful the "uncle" is a first generation Hispanic. I don't know that he is Hispanic at all. And based on my experience, the parents seem solidly second generation to me. Lots of us second generation kids can speak Spanish but have zero problems with English.

    You can see the uncle in video here, at around the 2:10 mark or so: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-arizona-home/
    I didn't see any guy identified as the uncle in your link, except one non-LE guy who very briefly spoke a few words... is that the guy you mean? He doesn't look AT ALL hispanic to me. We must not be seeing the same video.
    I watched a short clip several days ago of a hispanic guy who seemed to be speaking for the family, and I didn't get the impression he was LE, no uniform, but he may have been. Not the dad, I saw that interview too. The guy I saw seemed to be a little emotional, too, so I assumed he was family or close friend. I guess I'm just confused.
    I know that some second generation hispanics speak very good English, but a lot of it depends on what language was spoken at home. If they speak primarily Spanish at home, then the kids will have a harder time learning English in school. These parents do not seem to be second-generation to me, their accents were strong, IMO.
    All I was saying earlier is, in my experience, when people are bilingual, but the primary language is Spanish, they are mentally translating into English what they are thinking in Spanish, while trying to speak in one or the other at the same time. So it may be a little difficult to use the correct tense of a word. I'm told that English is one of the most difficult languages to learn and most Americans don't even speak it correctly.
    But what do I know?


    From what I understand there was vigil on Saturday night at the ballpark for Isa and the family did not attend. That person was reading a statement to let the people there know why the family wasn't there. jmo
    Last edited by Salem; 04-28-2012 at 05:28 PM. Reason: fix quotes
    My prayers are for the innocent.

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  45. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by mck16 View Post
    I can see that could be intrepreted as talking as if she were gone, but I think it is just bad use of the tenses. At least I hope so. ty
    Could be. Poor guy could have absolutely zilch to do with Isabel's disappearance.

    But I do get the interest.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  47. #424
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    I was looking at the rest of Tucson Police videos. The first "Near Collision at Broadway and Craycroft" is a couple of blocks from Isa's house. It's good to know there is a traffic cam capturing the neighborhood.

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...4&feature=plpp

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  49. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNGirl615 View Post
    Does anyone have a link to the video of the mysterious person in it? It may have been posted here and I searched through older threads but couldn't find it...
    It is in the first post of this thread.
    Pekingese "Best Of Show" 2012

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