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  1. #1
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    17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #35

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  3. #2
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    Brought over from previous thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
    Out of curiosity, would it be your opinion that the bulk of the $54K that has been spent was also since the bond hearing?
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7847172&postcount=1037"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #34[/ame]

    In my opinion the money was sent to GZ without stipulation from the sender and it's none of my business what he spent it on or if he's even spent it. Why would I care? He turned over $150,000 to his attorney - he could easily have lied about how much he had that wasn't in the paypal account.

    In a recent article there were a lot of pictures of GZ that we hadn't seen before, maybe those pictures were sold to raise money after the bond hearing? If so, this too shall be disclosed for the curious.

    It's not that I don't get the curiosity, I'd like to know what the Martin's did with the $35,000 + collected for them during the first rally. I'm assuming they used it for living expenses since neither have gone back to work in 2 months. In that same two months the Zimmerman's had to live as well, so after $5,000 for bail, sounds about right. JMO


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  5. #3
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    Originally Posted by vlpate
    BEM: Exactly. 30% of the community is AA - I'm sure they walk around all the time, so why did TM stand apart? Why did TM look suspicious to GZ? Maybe he wasn't just walking around? The black males he had called in as suspicious previously were up to something, as was proved later by their arrest. I think GZ knew the difference between "just walking around" and acting "suspicious".

    His rights did not stop when he got out of his truck. He had a right to get out of his truck. He had a right to see where the suspicious male was running to - he had a right to watch him. TM, on the other hand, had no right to confront and punch GZ and hold him down. From the evidence we do have, TM was breaking the law at that point. The rest will be up to a jury to decide. IMO
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...postcount=1046
    mercuriod
    BBM: Please link this "evidence we do have".
    Do you need a link to the picture of GZ's bleeding head, or the video of the funeral director saying there were no marks on TM? The eyewitness who saw GZ on the ground beneath TM, yelling for help? The police report? I apologize, I'm not sure what it is you haven't seen?


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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    Do you need a link to the picture of GZ's bleeding head, or the video of the funeral director saying there were no marks on TM? The eyewitness who saw GZ on the ground beneath TM, yelling for help? The police report? I apologize, I'm not sure what it is you haven't seen?
    Actual evidence, the picture of "GZ's bleeding head" has not been verified to even be GZ, the funeral director said there was not evidence that TM had been in a fight (very bad "evidence" for GZ), but that also is not "evidence", the eyewitness saw "someone" on the ground beneath "someone" else, never heard him say who was who so yes link to that please. The police report, you mean the one that says right up top:

    Offenses Section

    1 HOMICIDE-NEGLIG
    MANSL-UNNECESSARY KILLING TO
    PREVENT UNLAWFUL ACT

    Yea, also very BAD evidence for GZ.



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    Quote Originally Posted by mercuriod View Post
    Actual evidence, the picture of "GZ's bleeding head" has not been verified to even be GZ, the funeral director said there was not evidence that TM had been in a fight (very bad "evidence" for GZ), but that also is not "evidence"
    BEM: Someone should tell Crump since he is commenting on it!
    "“When you look at those pictures and you see those two little cuts on his head, that is not consistent with your head being pounded into the pavement”… - Benjamin Crump 4/23

    the eyewitness saw "someone" on the ground beneath "someone" else, never heard him say who was who so yes link to that please.
    "Someone" wearing red. This is not news or anything that hasn't been discussed many times here, but perhaps you missed it. Here's one of the many reports:

    Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation:
    MyFoxOrlando.com
    Below is a transcript of the Fox News interview of the witness “John” by reporter Keith Landry.
    Narration: Sanford police (are) still trying to figure out exactly what happened in this spot here last night. We talked to a man who didn’t want to be shown on camera, who witnessed part of the attack right here then went upstairs to his window and witnessed the rest of it after he called 911.
    Reporter: “What are you thinking now about all this?”
    Narration: This afternoon I talked to “John” through his front door about what he saw last night during a fight that turned into a deadly shooting.
    John: “The guy on the bottom (Zimmerman) who I believe had a red sweater on was yelling to me ‘help, help’. I told him (Trayvon) to stop (beating Zimmerman) and called 911."

    1. This was the day after the shooting which holds more credence to me than any of the ear and eyewitnesses that have come forward in the weeks after.
    2. On Roland Martin's interview with SB, TM, and BJ, Crump states Zimmerman had on a red sweatshirt. This interview was on the 18th of March.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3SZ8FBrbvw&feature=player_embedded]Roland Martin's interview with SB, TM, and BJ (7:51). [/ame]

    The police report, you mean the one that says right up top:

    Offenses Section

    1 HOMICIDE-NEGLIG
    MANSL-UNNECESSARY KILLING TO
    PREVENT UNLAWFUL ACT

    Yea, also very BAD evidence for GZ.
    BEM: What unlawful act was he preventing?


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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    BEM: Someone should tell Crump since he is commenting on it!
    "“When you look at those pictures and you see those two little cuts on his head, that is not consistent with your head being pounded into the pavement”… - Benjamin Crump 4/23



    "Someone" wearing red. This is not news or anything that hasn't been discussed many times here, but perhaps you missed it. Here's one of the many reports:

    Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation:
    MyFoxOrlando.com
    Below is a transcript of the Fox News interview of the witness “John” by reporter Keith Landry.
    Narration: Sanford police (are) still trying to figure out exactly what happened in this spot here last night. We talked to a man who didn’t want to be shown on camera, who witnessed part of the attack right here then went upstairs to his window and witnessed the rest of it after he called 911.
    Reporter: “What are you thinking now about all this?”
    Narration: This afternoon I talked to “John” through his front door about what he saw last night during a fight that turned into a deadly shooting.
    John: “The guy on the bottom (Zimmerman) who I believe had a red sweater on was yelling to me ‘help, help’. I told him (Trayvon) to stop (beating Zimmerman) and called 911."

    1. This was the day after the shooting which holds more credence to me than any of the ear and eyewitnesses that have come forward in the weeks after.
    2. On Roland Martin's interview with SB, TM, and BJ, Crump states Zimmerman had on a red sweatshirt. This interview was on the 18th of March.

    Roland Martin's interview with SB, TM, and BJ (7:51).



    BEM: What unlawful act was he preventing?
    In that context, I think the unlawful act was some sort of assault. JMO


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    There was a discussion about M'OM's fees the other day. this has probably been addressed but since this is a new thread thought I would post anyway.

    Faced with the prospect of not getting paid for his work, O’Mara, has set up his own website and legal defense fund — gzdefensefund.com. At his normal $400-an-hour rate, the case could run up to $1 million, including costs, he said.
    Getting paid
    “I am a businessman, and I certainly don’t mind getting paid for my expenses in this,” O’Mara said. “We don’t have a lot of training on how to handle legal defense fund money … There are no rules, and we are going to make some.” He vowed to be more transparent.
    He noted that Trayvon’s parents have a website that accepts donations, too. That site on wepay.com says it has collected about $26,000.



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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    BEM: Someone should tell Crump since he is commenting on it!
    "“When you look at those pictures and you see those two little cuts on his head, that is not consistent with your head being pounded into the pavement”… - Benjamin Crump 4/23



    "Someone" wearing red. This is not news or anything that hasn't been discussed many times here, but perhaps you missed it. Here's one of the many reports:

    Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation:
    MyFoxOrlando.com
    Below is a transcript of the Fox News interview of the witness “John” by reporter Keith Landry.
    Narration: Sanford police (are) still trying to figure out exactly what happened in this spot here last night. We talked to a man who didn’t want to be shown on camera, who witnessed part of the attack right here then went upstairs to his window and witnessed the rest of it after he called 911.
    Reporter: “What are you thinking now about all this?”
    Narration: This afternoon I talked to “John” through his front door about what he saw last night during a fight that turned into a deadly shooting.
    John: “The guy on the bottom (Zimmerman) who I believe had a red sweater on was yelling to me ‘help, help’. I told him (Trayvon) to stop (beating Zimmerman) and called 911."

    1. This was the day after the shooting which holds more credence to me than any of the ear and eyewitnesses that have come forward in the weeks after.
    2. On Roland Martin's interview with SB, TM, and BJ, Crump states Zimmerman had on a red sweatshirt. This interview was on the 18th of March.

    Roland Martin's interview with SB, TM, and BJ (7:51).



    BEM: What unlawful act was he preventing?
    Here is the actual interview with "John"

    http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news...od-altercation

    And here is what it ACTUALLY says

    The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.


    So now if the guy on the bottom is GZ what is John telling GZ to stop?

    No where in that interview did "John" say the names of Zimmerman or Trayvon as your posts states he did!


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    Quote Originally Posted by highflyer View Post
    Walking while being black.
    Reading it as he was "preventing" a crime. There is no way GZ could have prevented TM from doing something he was already engaged in. JMO


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  18. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    Do you need a link to the picture of GZ's bleeding head, or the video of the funeral director saying there were no marks on TM? The eyewitness who saw GZ on the ground beneath TM, yelling for help? The police report? I apologize, I'm not sure what it is you haven't seen?
    I would love a link to actual evidence. Things documented by LE and the SA. A picture taken by a neighbor is fine and dandy, but I need to see the pictures that were actually taken by LE and marked as evidence during the investigation. I would also like to see GZ written report, his recorded interview and the walk-through he did that day. I also want to see Trayvon's autopsy report. Forensic evidence on the gun. Forensic evidence on both Trayvon and George's clothes. I could go on and on.

    The SA says GZ's claims don't match the evidence... so we will have to wait to see the actual evidence.

    Not one witness seen the beginning of the altercation... so saying that Trayvon confronted, punched, and held GZ down, is not evidence. It's just words by people who have every reason to lie.

    MOO
    Justice for Trayvon



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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    Do you need a link to the picture of GZ's bleeding head, or the video of the funeral director saying there were no marks on TM? The eyewitness who saw GZ on the ground beneath TM, yelling for help? The police report? I apologize, I'm not sure what it is you haven't seen?
    I believe GZ was arrested because his accounting of what happened was inconsistent with the SA's investigation and also the homocide detective's preliminary investigation when he stated that night he felt GZ was lying just from the evidence he had at that moment. I have fallen with no one around me and gotten injured. There is no doubt they were on the ground, there is no doubt GZ was injured but what is doubtful is GZ's story of how they ended up on the ground. Not a stretch of the imagination to figure out that someone who wanted to keep a person from fleeing and getting away would be more aggressive than a person who wanted to get back just to watch an important game on TV that was coming on around the time he was expected back at the condo. It is GZ's choice to try and prove SYG but so far he's not doing too well. His story should have been right the first time around. jmo



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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    Do you need a link to the picture of GZ's bleeding head, or the video of the funeral director saying there were no marks on TM? The eyewitness who saw GZ on the ground beneath TM, yelling for help? The police report? I apologize, I'm not sure what it is you haven't seen?
    The bleeding head photo shows that the incident could not have occured as Zimmerman claims since there are only two small lacerations to the back of the head instead of a road rash that would have occured had his head repeatedly hit a cement walkway, IMO.

    The funeral director said there were no marks other than a gunshot wound, therefore there were no marks on Trayvon's hands either so that proves that Trayvon did NOT punch Zimmerman in the nose, face or anywhere else, IMO.

    Eyewitness reports are very often wrong as eyewitnesses are not reliable, however, there are also other eyewitness reports that clearly say that Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon holding him down as well and eyewitness reports (actually earwitness reports) stating that it was a younger male yelling for help and making the sounds on the 911 call, IMO.

    The police report was not a full report nor was it a final report when it was released to the public. The police report also was a version of what Zimmerman claimed happened that night, not what actually did occur, IMO.

    So, none of the "evidence" against Trayvon is actual proof, at this time, that Trayvon did anything wrong or illegal that night. There is, however, proof that Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon, that Zimmerman followed Trayvon with a loaded gun and that Zimmerman did NOT have reasonable reason to believe that Trayvon was up to no good that night, IMO.

    MOO



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    Quote Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
    The bleeding head photo shows that the incident could not have occured as Zimmerman claims since there are only two small lacerations to the back of the head instead of a road rash that would have occured had his head repeatedly hit a cement walkway, IMO.

    The funeral director said there were no marks other than a gunshot wound, therefore there were no marks on Trayvon's hands either so that proves that Trayvon did NOT punch Zimmerman in the nose, face or anywhere else, IMO.

    Eyewitness reports are very often wrong as eyewitnesses are not reliable, however, there are also other eyewitness reports that clearly say that Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon holding him down as well and eyewitness reports (actually earwitness reports) stating that it was a younger male yelling for help and making the sounds on the 911 call, IMO.

    The police report was not a full report nor was it a final report when it was released to the public. The police report also was a version of what Zimmerman claimed happened that night, not what actually did occur, IMO.

    So, none of the "evidence" against Trayvon is actual proof, at this time, that Trayvon did anything wrong or illegal that night. There is, however, proof that Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon, that Zimmerman followed Trayvon with a loaded gun and that Zimmerman did NOT have reasonable reason to believe that Trayvon was up to no good that night, IMO.

    MOO
    BEM: I totally agree, but I, personally, would believe an eyewitness actually seeing the man on the bottom yelling, than an "ear witness" who is not an expert when it comes to a male's voice being 17 or 28. IMO

    Regardless of how we each interpret the evidence, it is what it is, evidence. IMO


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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    BEM: I totally agree, but I, personally, would believe an eyewitness actually seeing the man on the bottom yelling, than an "ear witness" who is not an expert when it comes to a male's voice being 17 or 28. IMO

    Regardless of how we each interpret the evidence, it is what it is, evidence. IMO
    But it's only evidence of him on the ground and not evidence of who was the first aggressor. If GZ was holding onto TM to keep him from leaving it's very likely that GZ could have fallen and taken TM with him. We all know GZ did not want TM to get away. That is obvious. jmo



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    Quote Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
    The bleeding head photo shows that the incident could not have occured as Zimmerman claims since there are only two small lacerations to the back of the head instead of a road rash that would have occured had his head repeatedly hit a cement walkway, IMO.

    Road Rash is actually a term used for people who fall off of motorcycles or bicycles and slide across pavement. It's usually a bad brushburn and often filled with rocks, dirt and debree. (I've seen plenty of that as hubby and many friends ride motorcycle's.) If GZ's head was banged a couple of times on the pavement and he tried to scoot off the sidewalk to keep his head from being hit, I don't understand why anyone would not think that GZ would have been trying to lift his head at the same time he was scooting or trying to move.

    The funeral director said there were no marks other than a gunshot wound, therefore there were no marks on Trayvon's hands either so that proves that Trayvon did NOT punch Zimmerman in the nose, face or anywhere else, IMO.

    Friends of mine own a bar, so I've seen a few bar fights. From what I've observed when someone punches someone in the nose or mouth it usually only cuts the fist/hand if a tooth is hit by the fist. So just punching a nose wouldn't necessarily break the skin or cause a bruise on the knuckles. I've seen some red knuckles after a fight, but am not sure what that would look like if the person had died during the fight. What I've not seen is black and blue marks on a hand or knuckles the day after a fight unless the hand was broken.

    Eyewitness reports are very often wrong as eyewitnesses are not reliable, however, there are also other eyewitness reports that clearly say that Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon holding him down as well and eyewitness reports (actually earwitness reports) stating that it was a younger male yelling for help and making the sounds on the 911 call, IMO.

    I have not heard anyone but the witness John stating that he was outside and the man in the red was on the bottom. I've listened to all the other callers to 911 and have not heard any of them state that GZ or the man in red was on the top. I will go to listen again. Also regarding the calls for help. I noticed that investigator Gilbreath stated that the FBI had been sent the 911 calls to analyze, but this is what he said when he testified:

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...20/cnr.02.html

    O'MARA: Witnesses heard people arguing, sounded like a struggle. During this time, witnesses heard numerous calls for help. Some of this was recorded. Trayvon's mom reviewed the 911 calls and identified the cry for help and Trayvon Martin's voice. Did you do any forensic analysis on that voice tape?

    GILBREATH: Did I?

    O'MARA: Did you or are you aware of anything?

    GILBREATH: The "Orlando Sentinel" had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

    O'MARA: Is that part of your investigation?

    GILBREATH: Yes.

    O'MARA: Has that given any insight as to the voice?

    GILBREATH: No.



    So that tells me that as of the bond hearing they did not yet know who was yelling for help that night. And IMO if the person calling for help was Trayvon then I would expect that as a teenager going through puberty that his voice was changing and would be crackling if it was him screaming. I lived through 2boys going through puberty with changing voices.


    The police report was not a full report nor was it a final report when it was released to the public. The police report also was a version of what Zimmerman claimed happened that night, not what actually did occur, IMO.

    So, none of the "evidence" against Trayvon is actual proof, at this time, that Trayvon did anything wrong or illegal that night. There is, however, proof that Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon, that Zimmerman followed Trayvon with a loaded gun and that Zimmerman did NOT have reasonable reason to believe that Trayvon was up to no good that night, IMO.

    I really believe that we all need to take a step back and wait for the documents to be released for a better idea of what there is evidence of or any inconsistancies. I just don't think that GZ had time to make up such a story right after the shooting. He had to be in shock right after, maybe is head was hurting and was in a time of great stress. I just don't know how anyone could be thinking straight after something like this. He never ask for an attorney when being questioned. He freely talked to LE several times in the next 24hrs without an attorney. If he wasn't telling the truth or making it up as he went along then why would he not talk to an attorney for legal advice just in case he was caught in a lie? I, for one, would not expect all of his statements to match or there not be inconsistancies because of his state of mind at the time. In fact if each of his statements matched I would be leary of a made up story.
    MOO
    My comments are in red. I'd also like to mention that my husband was in a accident, hit by a vehicle and thrown 10-15' landing on pavement surrounded by railroad ties. His head hit a railroad tie and landed on the pavement. GZ had more of a laceration on his head than my husband had. Hubby's forehead laceration was about an inch long and no stitches. He did have road rash on his arm and knee. Hubby was knocked unconscious and ended up with TBI. So I don't think we can look at one head injury and expect all to look the same.
    Last edited by Zak; 04-28-2012 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Transposed letters
    This is strictly my opinion!
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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