1486 users online (326 members and 1160 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 39
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    8,124
    On WS, Trayvon Martin is considered the victim. He was shot and killed by George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder. We are allowing the discussion of Mr. Zimmerman's defense, but until and unless it is proven otherwise, Trayvon Martin is the victim.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by SoSueMe View Post
    On WS, Trayvon Martin is considered the victim. He was shot and killed by George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder. We are allowing the discussion of Mr. Zimmerman's defense, but until and unless it is proven otherwise, Trayvon Martin is the victim.
    Are presumption of innocence of the accused and "following the facts wherever they lead no matter if they agree with our feelings and beliefs about the matter" are not practiced here? Respectfully, when you say "Allowing the discussion of Mr. Zimmerman's defense" it as if the discussion is resulting from your benevolent nature rather than a healthy examination of all relevant facts, which I thought was what WS was founded upon. I certainly think exculpatory evidence is of the utmost relevance.

    I spent a few hours researching and gathering pertinent information, which I think substantiates the matter I asked about beyond any and all reasonable doubt. I sent it to JBean, and I hope JBean will share it with you, as I think it is certainly worthy of discussion, and hope at the very least, it is a discussion which is "allowed."

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    8,124
    Quote Originally Posted by ariesgodofwar View Post
    Are presumption of innocence of the accused and "following the facts wherever they lead no matter if they agree with our feelings and beliefs about the matter" are not practiced here? Respectfully, when you say "Allowing the discussion of Mr. Zimmerman's defense" it as if the discussion is resulting from your benevolent nature rather than a healthy examination of all relevant facts, which I thought was what WS was founded upon. I certainly think exculpatory evidence is of the utmost relevance.

    I spent a few hours researching and gathering pertinent information, which I think substantiates the matter I asked about beyond any and all reasonable doubt. I sent it to JBean, and I hope JBean will share it with you, as I think it is certainly worthy of discussion, and hope at the very least, it is a discussion which is "allowed."
    Please send the information to me as well and I will discuss it with Tricia, the other co-owner. This has been a very difficult case for us. We realize there is a plethora of information out there surrounding TM, but due to our rules requiring verified links; the fact that he was a minor; and the fact that GZ has been charged with second degree murder, TM is considered the victim by WS standards.

    I believe you were asking whether we would drop the "victim status" of TM in discussions allowed on WS. Due to the charges against GZ, the answer is no. We will allow members to question TM's actions of that night as it relates to GZ's defense.

    If the information you have surrounding TM can be verified and linked by WS standards, we most probably will allow it, if it relates to the defense of GZ.

    As for presumption of innocence, that is for a court of law and each and every member must decide for themselves whether they want to follow that practice. Personally, I do.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by SoSueMe View Post
    Please send the information to me as well and I will discuss it with Tricia, the other co-owner. This has been a very difficult case for us. We realize there is a plethora of information out there surrounding TM, but due to our rules requiring verified links; the fact that he was a minor; and the fact that GZ has been charged with second degree murder, TM is considered the victim by WS standards.

    I believe you were asking whether we would drop the "victim status" of TM in discussions allowed on WS. Due to the charges against GZ, the answer is no. We will allow members to question TM's actions of that night as it relates to GZ's defense.

    If the information you have surrounding TM can be verified and linked by WS standards, we most probably will allow it, if it relates to the defense of GZ.

    As for presumption of innocence, that is for a court of law and each and every member must decide for themselves whether they want to follow that practice. Personally, I do.
    Sure, I have forwarded you what I have come across as well. I apologize if I came across incorrectly about dropping the "use of victim." That was not really the crux of my issue, while I do think however, that this case, unlike something like a clear cut robbery where there is a defined victim and a perpetrator, this is basically a "he said, he said" where the one around at the end of the day was George Zimmerman, who asserts that he was attacked.

    I have not so much an issue of calling Trayvon a victim as I did with the poster who immediately responded that we should not "demonize the victim" as if TM's history and predisposition (in their own words/actions no less), especially in a case which there is a legitimate dispute as to some of the most important material facts of the event, seemed to me almost akin to someone refusing to discuss something by calling it "racist" and then setting it aside as some sacred cow which cannot be touched. I just feel in any subject, setting something aside and refusing to investigate it because it is uncomfortable, is counter-productive to the one thing I hope we all want, the truth. A bit like not exploring the fossil record with regard to evolution because we believe in Creationism.......

    The search for truth cannot have sacred cows.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    8,124
    Okay, we have not set aside Trayvon Martin as a sacred cow. We have stated he was a victim because he was killed and the State asserts it was second degree murder.

    We have allowed the discussion of Mr. Zimmerman's defense to determine if the killing was justified under the Stand Your Ground law. The fact that he has second degree murder charges pending doesn't help the situation when trying to label him as a victim; however, if GZ was indeed a victim, hopefully the truth will come out.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,720
    There seems to be trashing of GZ's father allowed...in themost offensive way.<modsnip>
    Last edited by JBean; 05-20-2012 at 11:07 PM. Reason: removed information that is not open for discussion.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,720
    Yesterday I tried to start a thread on one of the most serious charges against GZ...profiling. There was an article addressing the sad frequency of Black teenage male crime in that condocomplex. You did allow the article but not the thread.

    If Gz is charged with a Hate Crime, he could be executed...but we cannot discuss the Charge that might result in his death...in a way that might bring undetstanding to his state of mind? Why not? Is that fair when a man's life is on the line? Are we not serious here? We can discuss how he broke his own nose..But not the charge that hangs over him?

    Thank you for allowing me some latitude in the threads but this is not a side issue: profiling is key to this case.

    Why can it not be a thread?

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Dana Point,CA
    Posts
    52,752
    Quote Originally Posted by stmarysmead View Post
    Yesterday I tried to start a thread on one of the most serious charges against GZ...profiling. There was an article addressing the sad frequency of Black teenage male crime in that condocomplex. You did allow the article but not the thread.

    If Gz is charged with a Hate Crime, he could be executed...but we cannot discuss the Charge that might result in his death...in a way that might bring undetstanding to his state of mind? Why not? Is that fair when a man's life is on the line? Are we not serious here? We can discuss how he broke his own nose..But not the charge that hangs over him?

    Thank you for allowing me some latitude in the threads but this is not a side issue: profiling is key to this case.

    Why can it not be a thread?
    Hi SMM.
    Please, go ahead and start that topic in the sound off forum. thanks.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Dana Point,CA
    Posts
    52,752
    Quote Originally Posted by stmarysmead View Post
    There seems to be trashing of GZ's father allowed...in themost offensive way. <modsnip>?
    Please alert on posts that trash the Zimmermans. Thanks.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,720
    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    Hi SMM.
    Please, go ahead and start that topic in the sound off forum. thanks.
    Is that a different forum from the one where we are discussing the case? Or is this here where everything else that pertains to this case is?

    I didn't find this thread until today...so my WS geography is not topnotch. LOL

    But I hope it isn't in a dungeun somewhere...because it is one of the key charges.

    Thanks.


  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sacramento CA
    Posts
    9,324
    Quote Originally Posted by stmarysmead View Post
    Is that a different forum from the one where we are discussing the case? Or is this here where everything else that pertains to this case is?

    I didn't find this thread until today...so my WS geography is not topnotch. LOL

    But I hope it isn't in a dungeun somewhere...because it is one of the key charges.

    Thanks.
    Its in the Private Forums. Heres a link.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=484"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    the Plains & Jordan-Hare stadium
    Posts
    17,898
    I understand your point, Stmarysmead. However, if you want to discuss it tonight, you should do as JBean said and open it in the Sound Off thread in the private area.

    Again, your point is valid. I will alert the owners, Tricia and SoSueMe to this thread. If you would like to wait until tomorrow when they have both had a chance to review and discuss it, they may permit it here in the public forum.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,720
    I will wait and apprciate you addressing the issue with them. We discuss murder and child abuse here. People accuse and others refute those accusations.

    "Profiling" is an accusation used in many, many posts. But it is a CHARGE he is facing, not a "given." WS would never let people call an accused "a molester" on the official forum over and over... and say that anyone defending against that charge had to go to a private forum to do so. I don't believe so anyway. That would skew the forum. And make many who read here assume you had taken a position on his guilt.

    I'll wait for your answer. Thanks.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Dana Point,CA
    Posts
    52,752
    Isn't there a discussion about profiling in the FBI thread?

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Paradise AKA San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,809
    Quote Originally Posted by stmarysmead View Post
    I will wait and apprciate you addressing the issue with them. We discuss murder and child abuse here. People accuse and others refute those accusations.

    "Profiling" is an accusation used in many, many posts. But it is a CHARGE he is facing, not a "given." WS would never let people call an accused "a molester" on the official forum over and over... and say that anyone defending against that charge had to go to a private forum to do so. I don't believe so anyway. That would skew the forum. And make many who read here assume you had taken a position on his guilt.

    I'll wait for your answer. Thanks.
    I have to chime in here for accuracy, sorry. GZ has not been legally charged with profiling.

    O/T I know, sorry. <creeps quietly away>
    Be kind, for everyone is fighting a great battle.

    My favorite song ever -->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihUIPlLw2ZE

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Threadiquette- Questions about rules welcome here
    By imamaze in forum Nevaeh Buchanan
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-07-2017, 01:17 PM
  2. Threadiquette- Questions about rules welcome here
    By imamaze in forum Amanda Berry- Gina deJesus- Michelle Knight
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-06-2013, 06:04 AM
  3. Threadiquette- Questions about rules welcome here
    By imamaze in forum Hasanni Campbell
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-02-2011, 11:16 PM
  4. Threadiquette & Forum Rules Updates ~ Ask Your Questions Here
    By JBean in forum Kyron Horman Reference and Time Line Forum
    Replies: 115
    Last Post: 10-23-2010, 08:45 PM
  5. Threadiquette- Questions about rules welcome here
    By imamaze in forum Mystery couple murdered South Carolina 1976
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-21-2010, 06:58 PM