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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011


    What happened on the night of February 26, 2012? 17 yo Trayvon Martin is shot and killed by 28 yo George Zimmerman, who has claimed immunity under Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

    How do you think it started? Why did TM end up dead? Was the Sanford PD investigation standard, poor or non existent?
    All my posts are MOO!

    Halt, face away from me and put the Occam's Razor on the ground now; put your hands on your head and interlace your fingers behind your head.

    "Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is the right thing to do."-Justice Potter Stewart, US Supreme Court Justice 1915-1985

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Dana Point,CA
    I have no idea what happened that night-but I do think Zimmerman created the situation and none of it had to happen.
    That is all I know for sure in my own mind. Well that and a boy is dead.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    I believe GZ's mentality drives his behavior...

    As his good buddy, FT has stated, he was fed up with all the burlaries in his community, as if HE owned the darn place..I believe he also has a personal vendetta after learning his own bicycle was stolen off his porch..(prelude to a shooting tells it)

    I'd love to know what happened with GZ right before he allegedly was going on that milk run to Target? Did he and his wife have an argument? Why did he focus on a teen walking alone? Was he already in angry mode?

    I believe GZ has a hidden agenda..

    I believe his 911 NEN call tells it true. His mentality of not letting another A&&hole get away, drives his behavior. These phucking punks (or racial slur) is another excited utterance....

    TM knew this strange dude was following him. He takes his short cut, tries to get away from this strange dude only to be startled when GZ pops out in front of him (witness sees two people in a chase). Which evokes the, Why are you following me, response from GZ, what are you doing here? Then TM could have tried to get passed him (without responding to GZ's question) but GZ would have none of that. So, GZ tries to detain him, pushing match ensues, which I believe GZ didn't expect, so it caught him off guard. With that, he became angrier and was adamant to get this little thief...He already had his gun cocked and pulled it out, with trigger finger on the trigger...TM sees the gun, screams for his life, letting out that horrific wail, POP, dead before he hits the grass...GZ lunges on his back, making sure this little thief won't escape before the police arrive, he then realizes TM is fatally shot...

    Now GZ hands to head, pacing about, what the hell am I gonna do now? After a couple of seconds, he tells those standing around on their porches to call police..GZ never tries to render aid to fatally shot TM...he dies right there while GZ is on his back..pressing into his back as if to take the last breath out of TM's lungs...

    According to the prosecutor, GZ gave 5 different accounts of what happens, his renactment also doesn't stand up to those accounts. GZ claims he only gave 3...

    The prosecution spoke with witnesses, had that 911 call into the NEN from GZ, his words of 'these a**holes always get away', well, not this time. He made sure he had this trophy for all his neighbors to give him those, 'atta boys', good job you caught the thief of Twin Lakes Retreat...too bad, he was terribly wrong in his assessment of a lone teen walking on the grass and not on the sidewalk...he made a grave error in judgment and should own it, take responsiblity for taking an unarmed teens life..Bad judgment call that proved fatal...

    It also appears, no one in his family, GZ included takes responsiblity for his actions, it's always someone elses fault GZ gets into these violent confrontations, for they provoked it...
    “ It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man by argument. ”

    — William McAdoo

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Dana Point,CA
    THis is a no discussion thread.
    Please state your own theory and that's it. Should not be any back and forth or responses to the theories of others.

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  7. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    I wonder if this wasn't planned and went awry. Don't believe Zimmerman thought that Trayvon was as young as he was and that he was not armed. He was upset he couldn't find a weapon on the kid but sure looked cool as a cucumber at the police station as if he didn't have a care in the world. Was all going to be taken care of. Set off a firestorm but not the one he was intending.

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  9. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    GZ appears to be a wanna be:
    Back in Manassas a Wanna be Gangsta, Wanna B Kingpin, Wanna B ****
    In Florida a Wanna B Police Officer, Wanna B Judge
    Wanna B Sheriff (NW self proclaimed Captain...there was no one else who volunteered)

    He is an inadequate employee, a man unable to complete even a two year degree...he says in Criminal Justice and the school says General Studies. One degree is an AA and the other an AS.

    He's an aggressive person with a history of pushing matches with:
    police officers
    unarmed teens
    and he blames all of the above even though he is the instigator.

    He's a paranoid man who calls the police on
    Men walking with paper bags
    Men in pajama pants going through the trash
    Kids playing in the street
    Dogs coming after him...

    So he buys a gun, gets a Concealed Weapons Permit, and loads the gun with LETHAL HOLLOW POINT AMMUNITION, and carries that gun on his "Unauthorized Rounds." He, as a NW member, was not supposed to make rounds, carry any weapon, follow, intimidate or detain ANYONE. His job was to be eyes and ears to the police, to call in suspicious activity and then let LE do their job.

    In his mind LE couldn't catch the @$$holes/f'n he would show them...
    he would succeed where they couldn't. Didn't matter to him that this teen wasn't up to no good, didn't matter that this kid was armed or unarmed, GZ didn't give a flying #$%^. He knew if there was any altercation that he would shoot someone and he knew that the bullets in his gun would not maim someone. Those bullets were meant to tear internal tissue to shreds.

    He had countless chances to stop this from ending how it did and countless times in those 18 minutes he chose to do everything he was told not to do.

    GZ didn't care. He has proven time and time again that the wishes and rights of others come second to his. He MURDERED Trayvon that night.

    And now, the guy who I suspect, has always been a cry baby, a tattle tale and a fraud, wants us all to believe the cameo that he was a nice guy protecting others, a once altar boy, who wanted to be a Judge.

    Well, that is just garbage. He was/is only about Vigilante Justice.

  10. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    It is my opinion that GZ received a call from someone else alerting him to TM existence in their gated community. I think someone called him and George felt he was doing his job by checking this person out. So GZ left the house with his gun. I would love to see GZ's phone records, landline, cell phone, ect.

    I think when GZ spotted Trayvon, it was on. Some people may think that GZ was trying to prove something to the police by detaining TM but what if GZ was trying to prove something to someone else, like the person who called to tell him about TM?


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  12. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    I believe that GZ has always felt inadequate and has never succeeded in anything. The night he shot and killed Trayvon Martin was the night he was to change everything. He was going to be a hero. I think he intended to detain TM and give his trophy to LE to show them how it's done, but TM would not just meekly let himself be stopped and intimated by GZ. I think GZ was surprised and alarmed when TM wouldn't be his patsy and he pulled the gun which TM obviously saw because he started yelling for help and making sounds which were terrifying in their anguish. And because TM wouldn't submit to GZ, he was shot and killed. I think GZ rolled Trayvon over on his stomach so that he could detain him further but he discovered that TM was dead. I do not think that GZ was ever in fear of his life and that he was frustrated because TM wouldn't play his game and in frustration, he shot him. Dead men tell no tales. GZ made up the story of SYG, maybe with the help of police, maybe not. I don't believe a word of what he has said which has been made public so far and I wonder which version he'll stick with. He deserves to be convicted and imprisoned for a very long time.

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  14. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Just to add to my above theory: ITA, GZ very likely was out to send a message/prove something to his buddy/buddies. And, he may have also had a point to prove or a message to send to any would-be ****s and to LE:

    Theory on GZ's Message:
    "Barney Bad-@$$ reigns supreme in The Retreat at Twin lakes. If you are a criminal you will be shot...if you seem suspicious to me you may get shot...if you are LE and you think these guys are going to get away...think twice...GZ can get the job done. All in the name of a "safe" community where property is more valuable than human life..."

    ALL MOO and My Theory on GZ's frame of mind.

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  16. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    The logs, obtained by The Huffington Post, show that as Zimmerman was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher reporting Martin as "suspicious," Martin answered a final call from his girlfriend.

    The call began at 7:12 p.m. Martin told her that "some strange dude" was following him, said Crump. She told Crump that Martin slowed to see who was behind him. The girl urged him to run, and he picked up his pace. Martin said he thought the man was gone, according to Crump. Instead, Zimmerman was likely closing in.

    "He's right behind me, he's right behind me again," Martin told his girlfriend, according to Crump.

    "Next thing she hears is Martin saying, 'Why are you following me?'" Crump said. "And she hears a voice that says, "What are you doing around here?' Then she hears what she believes is a push against Martin and the phone crashes to the ground. She can hear them arguing in the background. Moments later, the phone line goes dead."

    Phone records show the call ended at 7:16 p.m. Police arrived roughly a minute later.

    I believe GZ never stopped in his pursuit of Trayvon...I now believe this shows his intent and his intent, like in the 911 NEN, shows his mentality and that is what drives his agressive behavior..

    I do not believe GZ has SYG defense action, for he was adamant, determined the next person he came upon, who he deemed suspicous, will never get away from him..

    I also believe it's a personal vendetta on GZ's behalf and do hope if and when this case gets to a jury, they will use common sense and critical thinking to come to their verdict..If ever a man should be kept away from society, it's someone like GZ for he is very dangerous in his parnaoid, mindless state...which will not change for it's not acknowledged with him or anyone from his family...It's always someone elses fault GZ winds up in violent confrontations..hopefully, not this time...they will see GZ for who he truly is..
    “ It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man by argument. ”

    — William McAdoo

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  18. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Here is my theory.

    GZ was on his way to the store when he encounters a suspicious guy:

    "We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a
    real suspicious guy."

    "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about."

    "He’s here now … he’s just staring."

    "Now he’s staring at me."

    "Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band."

    "Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out."

    "He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is."
    The last two lines indicate to me that TM was trying to intimidate GZ. If TM was really scared of GZ he would have tried to avoid him. That was not the case.

    Next, TM takes off running toward the back enterance.

    "He’s running."
    I believe that because TM was trying to intimidate GZ, this lead GZ to further believe that TM was up to no good. This caused GZ to want to make sure that the police were able to talk to this individual, determine IF he was actually up to no good, and determine why he was trying to intimidate GZ.

    GZ decided that with police on the way he wanted to be able to give the police a location of where TM went, or at least the direction of travel for them to follow up.

    GZ got out of his truck and started to follow TM.

    Dispacher: Are you following him? [2:24]

    Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]

    911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

    Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]
    At this point I dont believe GZ had sight of TM as evidenced by the following statement:

    It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]
    He was hesitant to give out his address, because he thought that TM may still be in earshot, and did not want retaliation for calling the police.

    I believe that GZ then either stood at or near the T in the crosswalk waiting for the police to arrive. I believe he did this because he was hoping to get sight of TM again to further report to the police. My opinion was that TM was somewhere close by, probably watching to see what GZ was doing.

    I think TM was pissed that GZ was watching him earlier (the clubhouse staredown), was still looking for him and decided to confront GZ. At this point TM started walking toward GZ and said something to GZ. To me "You got a problem" seems to make more sense than "Why are you following me", but I dont know that it matters. I don't believe that GZ ever intended to confront TM, but here was TM approaching GZ.

    I think words were exchanged and TM struck GZ in the face breaking his nose. GZ fell to the ground and TM jumped on top of him and continued punching him in the face. GZ tried to get up, but in doing so was lifting his head off the ground. As the punches continued it forced his head to smash into the ground/concrete causing the cuts on the back of his head.

    This caused GZ to scream for help.

    John: "The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!'
    TM realized he had to stop GZ from drawing any more attention, so he used his hands to cover GZs mouth and nose.

    Now that the punching had stopped, GZ was able to scoot up on thr ground enough to get a hold of his pistol. GZ pulled his pistol and TM tried to get it away from him. GZ was able to fire off one shot, but TMs hand on the slide of the gun caused it to not chamber the next round.

    TM fell immediately on top of GZ as he had been straddling him. GZ wiggled his way out from TM leaving TM face down on the ground.

    BTW: I dont believe one iota of the "girlfriends" (Crumps) story.
    Last edited by Phoenixfla; 05-11-2012 at 01:33 PM.

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  20. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    This is a NO DISCUSSION thread. Please state your theory and move on.


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  22. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    My previous post in the poll thread:

    2nd degree murder....GZ knew what the duties of a NW person were/are...and he proceeded to violate every one of them by:

    reporting and labeling Trayvon as suspicious for no reason except WWB

    following first in his truck and then on foot for no valid reason

    continuing to follow after instructed to stop by dispatch

    not waiting for LE to arrive when told they were on their way and would arrive in minutes....what was the urgency? he knew Trayvon was not committing a crime because he was watching him

    confronting Trayvon in a hostile manner and questioning him without identifying himself and why he was following

    taking his gun out of the truck with him during the stalking and confrontation

    unnecessarily pulling his gun out at some point during this confrontation when he knew by that time Trayvon was unarmed...IF there was a fight I believe he started it either by trying to detain Trayvon or stopping him from leaving, and Trayvon fought back in his own defense

    willfully firing a direct, close hit into Trayvon's chest with his gun loaded with hollow point bullets which he knew would cause instant death

    lying about his supposed injuries, his supposed self defense and his real money

    All of the above show to me that he did and does still have a 'depraved indifference' about what the results of his actions would be: murder with absolutely no regret or remorse

    All IMO
    And I'll add that the more I read some of the great posts from Trayvon's supporters here that analyze the situation and laws in depth, the more I believe GZ is guilty of murder. The saddest part of this to me is that Trayvon died for no reason except another misguided man's ego and paranoia...and at the time of his death he did not even understand who that man was, why he was being targeted and why he was dying...truly a tragedy....IMO

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  24. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    I believe that GZ may have been doing his nightly rounds in his car because of the rain and the fact that he had his gun with him. He sees TM and doesn't recognize him, so he begins to watch him and calls the non emergency number. At the same time, I think that TM is walking around the complex, talking to his girlfriend, possibly on a bluetooth or headset. He notices GZ watching him, states this to his girlfriend, and moves on. He may have moved toward GZ's car in an attempt to see who he was and if he recognized him, or maybe just to see what he was doing. TM moves on, which alarms GZ, who thinks he is another a$$hole looking to commit a crime. GZ gets out of his car and starts to follow TM, who becomes agitated by this man following him. The two come together in the back walkway, they are both agitated with each other, GZ because of his suspicion that TM is a criminal, and TM because he is being followed by GZ. GZ asks TM what he is doing and TM asks why GZ is following him. From this point, either the scuffle ensued because GZ put his hands on TM to hold him, or TM "got up on" GZ because he was pizzed about being followed, and the men found themselves in a wrestling match. GZ pulls out his gun and shoots TM.

    It Was Ancient Aliens!

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  26. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Before the info hits, I'll put out my theory.

    TM was returning from the store. As he was walking, it was raining on and off. He stepped under the awning to get out of a heavier shower. He then started walking back to the house. He sees GZ's truck, looks to see who's there and continues walking. By this time, GZ is on the phone to non-911, giving the description we know to be true from the tapes.

    Due to the burglary issues at Twin Lakes, GZ is ever alert for young, black males in the complex. How he arrived at TM looking suspicious or on drugs is known only to GZ. TM is still making his way back to BG's condo but perhaps, due to the twilight/darkness and rain showers, he's a little confused. That's where the "looking around at other houses" comes in but by my explanation, it's understandble.

    TM might have started to run to finally get out of the rain, he may have finished his phone call with his GF or he knew how much time had passed and wanted to get back to watch the start of the game.

    GZ isn't about to let "this a$$hole" get away so he gets out of his truck and starts to follow. Dispatch tells him he doesn't need to do that, but again, he's not going to let this one get away. He may very well have walked down the sidewalk on the street to get to the walkway between two units, rather than straight across to the other street. That would explain how he got ahead of TM, rather than behind him and explain where the body was found. (70 yards from BG's house)

    However the confrontation started, and we'll never know the truth, towards the end, GZ pulls his gun and threatens TM. TM tries to back away and is shot.

    I don't think GZ was going after TM to shoot him, I think he wasn't going to let "this a$$hole get away" this time. However he had to keep TM in his sights, he was going to do it. I do believe there was a bit of a "hero" voice going through his head.

    Once the adrenelin rush was gone, he knew he'd better have some serious answers for SPD.

    I think it was a mis-step from the beginning. Maybe GZ did have a reason to be profiling TM, he certainly fit the description of previous burglars, but he had a duty to follow the guidelines of the organization he so vocally supported. As someone with a CCW, he had a greater duty to act with caution and he knew LE was on the way.

    He didn't mean for this to happen but he did everything wrong and he is the reason TM is dead. I don't believe he was truly in fear for his life, as the statute says.
    All my posts are MOO!

    Halt, face away from me and put the Occam's Razor on the ground now; put your hands on your head and interlace your fingers behind your head.

    "Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is the right thing to do."-Justice Potter Stewart, US Supreme Court Justice 1915-1985

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  28. #16
    Join Date
    May 2012
    it really sucks that T is dead, but it's a valid SYG claim, unless some actual evidence (not assumption, innuendo, gut feeling or other) emerges that G started the ACTUAL altercation. Following someone is not assault and it's not illegal.

    that doesn't mean his SYG motion will be granted... it'll go to trial and then it's a toss up based on jury, but it should be not guilty... again assuming evidence doesn't emerge that G started the actual altercation.

    T is a young athlete, 6'+, football player.... lately he's been emulating gang / **** life:
    - chooses "nolimitnigga" as a twitter handle and brags on that ID about dominating women and giving bus drivers beat downs
    - decides to get tatts and grills
    - carries pot baggies, screwdrivers, and suspect jewelry to school and gets suspended for it

    - is a community activist who has shown no documented racism nor violence other than one arrest for which he was not charged.

    what happened at the Occams razor view:
    -the night of the incident he's walking home after 711...
    -G and T see each other... G feels T is suspicious and dials 911...
    -T walks away and jogs or runs at some point.
    - G says he will follow and the 911 operator says "we don't need you to do that" G says "OK"... btw, even if the police had said this to him, he had no obligation to obey
    - somehow an altercation starts and T ends up on top of G beating him subsequently getting shot
    - when first interviewed, T's father says that the person screaming for help is NOT T
    - when first interviewed, the primary witness said G was on the bottom, getting beaten and screaming
    - G has proven injuries consistent with his account
    - it's highly unlikely a shorter dumpy G ran down a tall football player T to force a confrontation

    I believe T was getting on the edge of gang behavior, not unusual at all for where he lived in Miami... he was feeling strong, bragging about smacking guys... when G lost sight of him, G was frustrated that people ripping off his neighborhood keep getting away, so he attempted to keep an eye on T to ID him to police when they got there, which is a common, very reasonable action by NW guys. When G followed him, T got angry and decided to give him a lesson. He circled around, and surprised G on the way back to his car with a shot to the nose then ground and pounded him. They struggled for about 30 seconds while G was screaming for help, then G decided he might die and went for his gun. Game over.

    if evidence does come up that G started the fistfight... I'm all for frying him... but it's not there... not guilty

  29. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    The Other End
    My theory is GZ should not have pursued TM at all. I believe TM stood his ground from a man who was following him that he didn't know. (I believe he was new to the neighboorhood??) I also believe that GZ made the first move and the struggle began. I also believe TM may have had the upper hand at one point, but not through out. I also believe that it was TM screaming for his life and that was when GZ should have walked away. I also don't care if TM played a part in this, he, to me, did nothing wrong. George was the one who started this whole mess, not TM. George was armed, TM wasn't. I also believe TM was targeted because he was black.

    This post is my opinion only, and is subject to making me look totally confused

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  31. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    I believe that the most likely sequnce of events was: GZ, after the 911 dispatcher told him "we dont need you to [follow him]", continues to do so because he was not willing to let "[this one] get away". he lost sight of trayvon at one point and caught up to him, at which point trayvon said "why are you following me?" and GZ responded "what are you doing here" while reaching to detain trayvon, at this point the headphones fall off/out and the GF hears the reported "get off!" when GZ grabs trayvon.

    that's when the fight ensues, as trayvon believes some pervert or weirdo has got ahold of him and he believes he is fighting for his life....he hits out struggling to get away from GZ who then fights back - trayvon begins to win the fight, on top of GZ and suddenly GZ thinks THIS aint fair!! and pulls out his gun, shooting & mortally wounding trayvon.

    ...however this may need an edit after I know more about the forensic evidence, because I believe there definitely was a fight, GZ was certainly injured although NOT in my opinion badly enough to think his life was at risk....I believe his emotions got the best of him, but so far I am not certain that trayvon was actually on top of GZ when shot!!

    I get that the (notoriously unreliable) witness testimony puts GZ on the bottom but I just dont know enough to be sure that's true, because I would have thought the GSW would bleed onto GZ, especially if he went to get out from under trayvon?

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  33. #19
    Join Date
    May 2012
    My theory: Zimmerman saw a man that resembled descriptions of black men who committed crimes in neighborhood. He alerts cops. He is asked by the dispatcher what the suspect is doing. So Zimmerman follows Trayvon.

    Trayvon notices that a man is following him. He ducks into a building and calls his gf to tell her about his pursuer. His gf thinks he's joking at first and asks why's he following you? Is it because you're black? Trayvon gets angry, says the guy's white and he bets the guy's following him because he's been profiled as WWB (walking while black).

    The gf asks what you gonna do? Trayvon, feeling outrage at the historical injustice against blacks, and embolden by phone call, tells his gf he's going to give the guy a beat-down. Trayvon then runs back to where he last saw Zimmerman. He jumps out at Zimmerman, demanding "Why the ****** are you following me?" Zimmerman asks Trayvon "What are you doing here?" Words are exchanged. Trayvon sees everything Zimmerman says and does as a personal affront. Trayvon knocks Zimmerman down, pummeling him to the ground. Zimmerman's head is getting banged up, he feels his life threatened, pulls out gun and shoots Trayvon once. One bang, Trayvon's dead. So clear self-defense. Zimmerman cannot use SYG because he did follow Trayvon so he initiated contact. But Trayvon used disproportionate physical force on Zimmerman, physically assaulting Zimmerman to where Zimmerman feared for his life. Zimmerman had no choice but to defend himself with his gun. Clear self-defense. Justifiable homicide. Zimmerman should be acquitted of all charges.

    Public needs to be re-educated that in a court of law, the person who throws the first physical strike is the initial aggressor. In this case, Trayvon is the provocateur. His death was a result of his own unnecessary physical actions to Zimmerman's words.

    Furthermore, unless Zimmerman physically struck Trayvon first (and we have no evidence of that, as Trayvon received no injuries to his body apart from his knuckles which resulted from his beating Zimmerman and the one gunshot wound), Zimmerman did nothing illegal by following Trayvon. Following someone is not stalking unless it is done repeatedly over a period of time. Five to ten minutes of following someone in one night while in the capacity as a neighborhood watchman providing safety and security for others in the community does not constitute stalking. Zimmerman also had every right to ask a question of Trayvon. Trayvon immaturely overreacted by physically striking Zimmerman.

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