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Thread: Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3

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    Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3

    Please continue here.


    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169529"]Thread 1[/ame]

    Thread 2


    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159"]The Rules[/ame] (please make sure you know the rules),

    REMEMBER: No cutting and pasting of comments from other social or media websites. You may paraphrase and provide a link.

    The only social media sites allowed are those belonging to the victim and any named (by law enforcement) POI or Suspect, or site created and devoted to the search Allison.

    Salem

    ETA: Media/Timeline Reference Thread: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7871813#post7871813"]AU-Allison Baden-Clay,43,Brisbane QLD, 19April2012 MEDIA/TIMELINE LINKS,NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
    Last edited by Salem; 05-05-2012 at 03:43 AM.
    "If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #3

    Please continue here.
    "If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." George S. Patton, Jr.

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    I'm going to repost what I just put up on the thread that has been locked; hope that's okay.

    Hi all, my first post here; male living in Brisbane. A fascinating case for sure, and I can quite explain to myself why it has captured my attention, other than I'm probably in the same general demographic as ABC, and also married into a Rhodesian family.

    I have read most of the posts so far, from day one, all 50 on the previous thread and trying to keep up with the current one which is quickly growing.

    I can't add much to what has already been discussed other than my personnel perspective of ex-Rhodesians. As I said, I married into an ex-Rhodesian family and at times it has been very perplexing for me as I come from an Australian Irish-Scottish background that goes way back to the 1800s. But I can say, from my perspective, that the BC family's behaviour doesn't strike me as strange at all. Ex-Rhodesians do have something of a born to rule attitude to the world, you need to know the history of the country to understand, and at the same time they do have something of a bunker mentality. In times of crisis they close in on themselves, and feel that everybody is against them. Again this is because of their history during the civil war in Zimbabwe, and the fact that the rest of the world was against them, and nobody would listen when they were saying, "But you don't realise how bad Mugabe is."

    I have at times found the relative's in my wife's family very hard work; arrogant they most certainly are, both the men and the women, and intensely loyal to the family. We all are, I know, but so intensely loyal that they won't ever deny any possible wrong-doing by a family member. I think because of their history, they see bunkering down as their best or only option.

    And as to the now notorious granny pash, I remember something my mother-in-law told me shortly before she died, when she was in her late 60s. "I think in Australia, they expect old people to be old. But what you don't understand is that A (her husband) and I still feel like we are 18." And they were so passionately in love still in their 60s. It was something to be envied.

    For better or worse, it's a different culture. But I can say that when you marry into an ex-Rhodesian family, you will mostly always be something of an outsider. And there are family conflicts that get blown out of all proportion that would have been accepted as nothing more than the usual spat in an Australian family with an Irish/English/Scottish background. So I can totally understand that ABC's mum and dad would not be warm with the BC family.

    That said, I'm not convinced the BC's are bad people, but just displaying a different culture response.

    As to whether GBC is guilty or not, I simply can't see at this point that there is enough evidence to reach a conclusion. I suspect, as some posters have already suggested, that this is much more complicated than a DV manslaughter killing. My gut feeling tells me that there was a third party involved somewhere, but it is nothing more than a gut feeling, and from what I have seen I don't think GBC would be very good at getting rid of a body in those circumstances by himself. Arrogant on the outside maybe, but pretty vulnerable on the inside, and probably being constantly pushed by his dad to be successful.

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    But it seems that financial problems weren't the only problems the GBC were dealing with - there marriage and the suspected abuse was what I was referring to.

    Very few of us tell people about our financial problems, I too am supporting a very expensive private school education as well as just trying to pay the bills. I think it sad that she couldn't talk to someone about the supposed abuse and the strain had placed on there marriage.

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    Granny pashing is in folks!!!
    Last edited by True; 05-05-2012 at 03:59 AM. Reason: Can't spell

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    Someone mentioned on the last page of the last thread, about ex-Rhodesian heritage etc. I am also aware of some conversations had with my ex South African bosses about Rhodesian's way back. They were also known to be very proud people with white wives. They were known to often have black servant mistresses on the side.......and after time, when the white man no longer wanted that mistress...in many cases, said mistresses would go missing. The black mistresses family would come searching....and often they would also be fired for their claims. The wife would often know what happened and the white mans family too.....It was considered acceptable to treat black people in that manner..............................they then would close ranks and bunker down as you say.................and stuck together, protecting their own. This was one big reason why some years back, the blacks revolted, killing the farmers and their wives in Zimbabwe.............................they had had enough.

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    As far as the 'granny pash' was concerned I think that the objections people had was not so much because of the fact they were old and grey and still kissing. In fact at least one person qualified their comments in that regards by saying that side of it was OK.

    It was more about the way they did it, or Mrs B-C Snr did it, and also doing it at a time like this. The whole style was done like a defiance to the cameras, and overdone deliberately. Consistent with the bunker mentality as you say, but probably still innapropriate under the circumstances to sexualise a behaviour for any reason at all, even if it was as a defiance. This happened fairly early in the piece, and there hadnt been as much gossip going around about GBC being possibly guilty. The body hadnt been found and it would be fairly normal for media to be around in this sort of a situation. Even if you were bunkering down, to choose to overdo a passionate kiss for the cameras as a reaction is a bit 'off' by any stretch of the imagination. If you were genuinely upset and heartbroken about your daughter-in-law being missing, who could even be thinking about doing that in that way for cameras?

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    Yep and at that time they were not aware of whether she was dead or alive....To sexualise, when there was the possibility that her crime may have involved sexualisation, was terrible. It thankfully didnt quanitfy to that in the end as there were no signs of foul play on Allison, but they were not to know at that given time...
    Last edited by willough; 05-05-2012 at 04:13 AM. Reason: spelling like poopoo

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    Even the news reporter said it was a "bizarre display"

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    I just want to state....to Rudra, that this is what my ex bosses told me. I do not believe in anyway that all ex-Rhodesians/current Zimbabweans behaved this way. It seems to me this was just the way it was done in many African countries where the blacks and whites lived together (unharmoniously). My boss stated it often happened in South Africa too......................partly why he moved from there to Australia. He wanted a better life for him, his wife and their two children.

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    One of my favourite things is reading the reason for editing Top work guys *thumbs up*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    Please continue here.
    thanks Salem I too have been frustrated with the community tit for tat this forum is for people to discuss the case surrounding ABC and to see if we as a forum can have an input as to the shocking loss of this beautiful woman. I urge all of you to please keep the chit chat to a well known "book" and not here. Its important to keep discussing the case we may just get a breakthrough

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    My husbands best friend is South African, he may be a little weird, but I can't imagine him ever pashing a granny.

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    I agree, crime solving is serious business - One should not laugh

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    Peter Davis SC also worked on the Deidre Kennedy case (Raymond Carroll). VERY big case here in Qld. But don't read the details of the crime unless you have a strong stomach. This case still makes me think the justice system can really stink sometimes. Particularly the double jeopardy law...don't get me started...

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Carroll"]R v Carroll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    To clarify - he defended Carroll.
    Last edited by Strangeworld; 05-05-2012 at 04:36 AM. Reason: more info

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    To Rudra and Willough, whilst I respect your views and your right to post, can we please refrain on passing judgement on all ex-Rhodesians. I was born and raised in Rhodesia around the same time as the BC family so I can comment first-hand on how the majority of Rhodesians were raised and behaved. The examples you have both cited are the minority. Yes, we had PAID employees that did what are viewed here in Australia as servant type tasks. But on the whole these employees were very well treated, and still are by those that remain in Zim. Many employees stayed with their families for decades - not because they were forced but because they had good jobs and were well cared for. When we left Zim, we gave the majority of our possessions to our long-time employee and found him a job with a friend's family - whom he continued to work for until he retired to the country a few years ago. None of this however has anything to do with the case that this forum is focused on. Yes, the BCs may have come from there but so too have many thousands of other Brisbane residents. Other than the recent bickering, I have found the posts on this forum to be insightful and considered. Please, as Salem stated on the last page can we please stick to facts or reports that can be cited. Rudra and Willough, I look forward to your future posts :-)

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    Hi
    I'm sorry I haven't worked out to quote but someone asked me if I knew whether 77 was empty - I really don't know. As to the white car having all 4 doors open at 10, the neighbor stating this has been interviewed several times by the police re this info and more. The theory re house is just speculation on part, just my opinion.

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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Strangeworld View Post
    Peter Davis SC also worked on the Deidre Kennedy case (Raymond Carroll). VERY big case here in Qld. But don't read the details of the crime unless you have a strong stomach. This case still makes me think the justice system can really stink sometimes. Particularly the double jeopardy law...don't get me started...

    R v Carroll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Now that does make me feel sick. In spite of two convictions (firstly murder and perjury) he still walks free?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clem1970 View Post
    To Rudra and Willough, whilst I respect your views and your right to post, can we please refrain on passing judgement on all ex-Rhodesians. I was born and raised in Rhodesia around the same time as the BC family so I can comment first-hand on how the majority of Rhodesians were raised and behaved. The examples you have both cited are the minority. Yes, we had PAID employees that did what are viewed here in Australia as servant type tasks. But on the whole these employees were very well treated, and still are by those that remain in Zim. Many employees stayed with their families for decades - not because they were forced but because they had good jobs and were well cared for. When we left Zim, we gave the majority of our possessions to our long-time employee and found him a job with a friend's family - whom he continued to work for until he retired to the country a few years ago. None of this however has anything to do with the case that this forum is focused on. Yes, the BCs may have come from there but so too have many thousands of other Brisbane residents. Other than the recent bickering, I have found the posts on this forum to be insightful and considered. Please, as Salem stated on the last page can we please stick to facts or reports that can be cited. Rudra and Willough, I look forward to your future posts :-)
    Understand completely, thus my reasoning for my second post above on the subject. I would never want people to think I view all ex Rhodesians or even current Rhodesians in that manner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willough View Post
    Understand completely, thus my reasoning for my second post above on the subject. I would never want people to think I view all ex Rhodesians or even current Rhodesians in that manner.
    No probs - I think I must have been typing my post when you posted your last one. Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudra View Post
    the now notorious granny pash
    My take on it, have said it a few times, I think it was a deliberate "we'll give you something to talk about" to the media. Those two knew the cameras were on them.

    It worked.......we're stilllll talking about it, even they wouldn't have thought it would last this long ..lol.

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    Willough said: "Someone mentioned on the last page of the last thread, about ex-Rhodesian heritage etc. I am also aware of some conversations had with my ex South African bosses about Rhodesian's way back. They were also known to be very proud people with white wives. They were known to often have black servant mistresses on the side.......and after time, when the white man no longer wanted that mistress...in many cases, said mistresses would go missing. The black mistresses family would come searching....and often they would also be fired for their claims. The wife would often know what happened and the white mans family too.....It was considered acceptable to treat black people in that manner..............................they then would close ranks and bunker down as you say.................and stuck together, protecting their own. This was one big reason why some years back, the blacks revolted, killing the farmers and their wives in Zimbabwe.............................they had had enough."

    Sorry, but that has nothing at all to do with the Zimbawean civil war. The black workers on the farms did not revolt and kill the farmers. There was a civil war in the country. Most of the blacks working on the farms sided with the white people in the war, because they had guaranteed work on the farms and decent housing as well. Not saying the whites weren't elitest, they were. Totally. But the the war came about because of educated black Zimbaweans wanting to take control of the country. It was during the cold war that this happened and many of them were educated in the USSR, so communism was a key ideology in the war against the white farmers.

    As to white farmers having sex with their black female workers, this most certainly happened, but not to the extent that it caused a civil war. In fact many of the white Zimbabweans I have met were so arrogant that they would never considered have sex with a woman that didn't have white skin.

    One of the things that preys on my mind about Rhodesian / Zimbabwean society was the extent to which white women were raped by white soldiers, and black women were raped by black soldiers during the conflict.

    Sorry, this is not relevant to the thread.

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    going back to the "pash" this can also be interpreted as we are very much a loving family, very much in love and together strange even to think that senior BC feels that she has to convey this to the world? mmmm just maybe there is more to dig with the senior BC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strangeworld View Post
    Peter Davis SC also worked on the Deidre Kennedy case (Raymond Carroll). VERY big case here in Qld. But don't read the details of the crime unless you have a strong stomach. This case still makes me think the justice system can really stink sometimes. Particularly the double jeopardy law...don't get me started...

    R v Carroll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    To clarify - he defended Carroll.
    I agree re justice system, although at the same time, we have how many prisons across Australia??, all loaded with criminals who thought they were smarter than the law.

    I'm staying positive & keeping faith in our police force who I'm sure are dotting every iiiiii & crossing every ttttt.

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    Quote Willough:- "The biggest tell tale sign from her, was the nibbling of her lower lip. One bites their lip when they have a crush on someone (we know it isnt this) or when they are concerned and unsure about a person or their actions.....Now this could be that she isn't used to the media attention that was on them.....or unsure about the answers GBC were giving, were true."

    a bit harsh mate ..... Not an every day event attempting to deal
    with what the sister was at the time ... How would u react?

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