The cries for help

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JBean

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Seems to be a hotly debated issue. What do we and don't we know?
 
Here's what I know:
"John" stated on camera that Mr. Zimmerman ("the guy in red") was "yelling" for help. He said he ran upstairs to call 911, before he could get upstairs and look out the window Mr. Martin was dead. He does not state that he heard more yells while running upstairs.

All hearsay, but he probably will be testifying as a witness.

Good topic by the way, thanks!
 
Here's what I know:
"John" stated on camera that Mr. Zimmerman ("the guy in red") was "yelling" for help. He said he ran upstairs to call 911, before he could get upstairs and look out the window Mr. Martin was dead. He does not state that he heard more yells while running upstairs.

All hearsay, but he probably will be testifying as a witness.

Good topic by the way, thanks!

Do you have the link to that handy? I'd like to read the entire article. TIA
 
Do you have the link to that handy? I'd like to read the entire article. TIA

I posted it on another thread, I'll find it and edit this reply.

You can see the video here, and from what he's saying you can come to the conclusion that Zimmerman is the one heard yelling because he says that the shot was fired before he was able to get upstairs. That, at least to me, says that the gunshot was a very short time after Zimmerman was yelling for help as per this man's story.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news...od-altercation
Again, I do not necessarily agree with the above site, I am just linking it for the witness's words only.
 
Robert Zimmerman Jr on the subject:

MORGAN: The chilling 911 call from the night of the shooting. Back now, Robert Zimmerman Jr., George Zimmerman's brother.

Robert, when we talked last time, you said that you had absolutely no doubt, and your father also said this, that the cries for help we heard on one of the other audio tapes definitely came from George. Since I spoke to you last, independent analysis has proved almost conclusively -- not 100 percent, I accept -- but almost conclusively, based on studying your brother's voice, that it could not have been George crying for help.

How do you react to that?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, you know, first and foremost, the most important reaction is to understand that independent analysis like that is not admissible. I don't know. And like I said I can't comment about the investigation or specifics in the investigation as they stand now, because there has been an arrest.

However, to say I know there have been a lot of sophisticated tools, as anyone would imagine, when the FBI is involved in an investigation to -- I mean the FBI is good at what they do -- to determine exactly whose voice. And unequivocally and without any doubt, that is my brother. He is on the floor.

His mouth is being held shut by his assailant, who is causing him to lose consciousness. And he is using his remaining breaths to scream and call out for help.

MORGAN: Again, you talk in a very dramatic way about remaining breaths, as if your brother is literally on the verge of dying. But so many people are Tweeting me saying, keep pushing on this, because if his brother was being beaten to within literally a moment before he dies, how can he be walking around so soon afterwards, with apparently barely a scratch on him.

I'm looking at him now. He's walking freely. There's no apparent sign of any serious injury.

ZIMMERMAN: OK. The injury that happened to George are injuries that affected his breathing. They're not injuries that are going to show up on a videotape. Breaking your nose and swallowing copious amounts of blood -- like I said in the first interview, we're confident all of his medical records, when they come to light, as they come to light in the court of law, will exonerate him.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/11/pmt.01.html
Videos here:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/piers-mo...mmermans-brother-on-defense-of-murder-charge/

JMO but if TM had suffocated GZ to the extent that he was losing consciousness and was swallowing copious amounts of blood that he was unable to spit out, GZ wasn't yelling at the time.

This description sounds like just a little bit pregnant. You can't both be on the verge losing consciousness because you can't breathe due to having your airways blocked AND scream in a blood curdling manner.
 
Before I try to touch on this topic. . . . . Does anyone have a 10-foot pole I can borrow?
 
Trayvon Martin Shooting: Voice Experts Claim Cries Heard On 911 Call Were Not George Zimmerman's
Posted: 03/31/2012 11:20 pm Updated: 04/ 2/2012 8:43 am

Before George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin on February 26, a 911 call recorded the voice of someone screaming. Whether that person was Martin or Zimmerman -- who police say claimed he was attacked by Martin before the fatal incident -- has been an open question since the calls were released by the Sanford, Florida police department. (WARNING: Above audio is disturbing.)

The Orlando Sentinel consulted two voice experts to try to settle the debate, and both came to the same conclusion: The cries could not have come from George Zimmerman.

One expert, Tom Owen, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman as the source. From the Sentinel:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-screams_n_1394224.html
 
The 911 call was the first thing I heard/knew about the case, and my reaction upon hearing the cries were that they were those of a young person (teens or younger) and not those of a 28 year old. In fairness, I have not to this day heard GZ's speaking voice at all, but would expect him to have a more youthful pitch if those were indeed his cries regardless of breathing, blood etc. Somewhat like comparing Michael Jackson's adult voice to those of any of his brothers. Michael had a higher pitched voice I would tend to think of a youth in puberty ranges as opposed to a mature adult voice.

Hearing Trayvon's brother's voice also makes me think the screams could indeed be those of a younger sibling of this man.
 
BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do you need police, fire, or medical?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe both. I'm not sure. There's just someone screaming outside.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: So you think he's yelling help?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: All right. What is your --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's gunshots.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: You just heard gunshots?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: How many?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: The chilling 911 call as the shooting of Trayvon Martin was taking place. Back with me now is Robert Zimmerman. His brother, George, killed Trayvon Martin. Who was screaming there, Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: That's my brother.

MORGAN: How can you be so sure? Because Trayvon's family are equally adamant it is their boy.

ZIMMERMAN: You know, that's a very sensitive thing to talk about. I don't blame them for being as equally adamant, I don't blame anybody whose family member they believe or perceive that they hear on the tape for being as equally adamant. I would expect nothing less, actually. I know that that's George. I know that one of the -- the saddest things for him in this whole thing was that despite those screams, no one came to his aid.

Those screams could have avoided, you know, what eventually George had to do to defend his life, if someone had, you know, heard them, come out, shown a light on the situation, said, get out of here, what are you guys doing? Because of that pain that he felt in particular, that he was screaming out so many times, I know that that's his voice. It sounds just like my voice.

I mean, he's my brother. That's what I sound like if I yell. But, you know, there are hopefully technological means to sort all that out. We thought --

Robert Zimmerman jr.'s opinion
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/31/pmt.01.html
 
Trayvon Martin Shooting: Voice Experts Claim Cries Heard On 911 Call Were Not George Zimmerman's
Posted: 03/31/2012 11:20 pm Updated: 04/ 2/2012 8:43 am

Before George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin on February 26, a 911 call recorded the voice of someone screaming. Whether that person was Martin or Zimmerman -- who police say claimed he was attacked by Martin before the fatal incident -- has been an open question since the calls were released by the Sanford, Florida police department. (WARNING: Above audio is disturbing.)

The Orlando Sentinel consulted two voice experts to try to settle the debate, and both came to the same conclusion: The cries could not have come from George Zimmerman.

One expert, Tom Owen, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman as the source. From the Sentinel:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-screams_n_1394224.html



I've asked this question before, if the "experts" are so certain that it is Mr. Martin, why does Investigator Gilbreath state that the only evidence they have saying it is Mr. Martin is his mother. This was at the bail hearing.
 
The 911 call was the first thing I heard/knew about the case, and my reaction upon hearing the cries were that they were those of a young person (teens or younger) and not those of a 28 year old. In fairness, I have not to this day heard GZ's speaking voice at all, but would expect him to have a more youthful pitch if those were indeed his cries regardless of breathing, blood etc. Somewhat like comparing Michael Jackson's adult voice to those of any of his brothers. Michael had a higher pitched voice I would tend to think of a youth in puberty ranges as opposed to a mature adult voice.

Hearing Trayvon's brother's voice also makes me think the screams could indeed be those of a younger sibling of this man.

GZ can be heard talking on the 911 call
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw"]George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted - YouTube[/ame]

and in the bond hearing
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WW5i_86hdU"]George Zimmerman's apology to Trayvon Martin's parents - YouTube[/ame]
 
Interesting article on this topic at link:

"Finally, published studies of voice identification under experimental conditions show very high rates of error. Indeed, a report by the National Academy of Sciences on forensic voice identification concluded that the scientific basis for making reliable voice identifications is weak. The FBI, as a result of the report, apparently does not use forensic voice analysis for courtroom evidence, although as with polygraph evidence, it continues to use it for investigative purposes."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bennett-l-gershman/george-zimmerman-screaming_b_1468761.htm

If this article is correct, then at trial we will see some non-expert witnesses testify that it is GZ screaming and others testify that it is TM screaming. Result: draw on this particular issue. JMO MOO etc.
 
I've asked this question before, if the "experts" are so certain that it is Mr. Martin, why does Investigator Gilbreath state that the only evidence they have saying it is Mr. Martin is his mother. This was at the bail hearing.

The expert never said it was TM. They just said they were certain it was not GZ. Also SA did not ask for the test. My guess is they will rely on FBI findings which they have not received yet. Gilbreath can only say he has heard of the OS testing not that he interviewed them because he did not. He did, however, interview TM's mother. jmo
 
I've asked this question before, if the "experts" are so certain that it is Mr. Martin, why does Investigator Gilbreath state that the only evidence they have saying it is Mr. Martin is his mother. This was at the bail hearing.

I was a little confused myself but DelaRionda at first tells the investigator something about they weren't prepared to talk evidence, paraphrased.

I believe it turned into a mini evidence hearing by ambush..Why they weren't better prepared is anyone's guess...but I believe they were caught off guard and were only prepared for the 'bond' hearing, not evidence hearing...:banghead:



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Gilbreath, I didn't know we were going to be trying the case, I'm going to add up -- I apologize. I want to add some questions to -- you had reviewed or other members of the team had reviewed his interviews, is that not true.

GILBREATH: That is --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he gave -- he the defendant gave numerous interviews to the police did he not.

GILBREATH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands?

GILBREATH: He has said that, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true?

GILBREATH: Yes.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html
 
I'm glad this thread was started, I was thinking of starting one regarding this. :blushing:

I believe the screams for help are from TM :(. GZ did NOT have to pull the trigger, he had the upper hand in this so called struggle. He was the one who pursued TM, not the other way around. He was the one who called the non-emergency hotline, not the other way around. He was the one carrying a gun, not the other way around. He is the one who is walking around ALIVE, not the other way around :(

This case still saddens me :( a 17 year old teen is dead because of a over zealous crime watch man, or whatever :jail:
 
The expert never said it was TM. They just said they were certain it was not GZ. Also SA did not ask for the test. My guess is they will rely on FBI findings which they have not received yet. Gilbreath can only say he has heard of the OS testing not that he interviewed them because he did not. He did, however, interview TM's mother. jmo

You may be correct about the experts, though I'm fairly certain the experts I heard talking about it said they were sure that it was Mr. Martin. This was right before I stopped paying attention to the media, so it's been a while. Unfortunately I can't even say which outlet it was that I was listening to but at the time the question in my mind was "how did you compare Mr. Martin's voice to the screams?"
 
You may be correct about the experts, though I'm fairly certain the experts I heard talking about it said they were sure that it was Mr. Martin. This was right before I stopped paying attention to the media, so it's been a while. Unfortunately I can't even say which outlet it was that I was listening to but at the time the question in my mind was "how did you compare Mr. Martin's voice to the screams?"

The reporter may have concluded it was Martin. How could someone testing say it was 100% Martin when they did not have a sample of his normal voice to test? I only read that the experts were only sure it was not GZ. jmo
 
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