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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    If both the prosecution and the defense bring out a mother to say it's their son they would tend to cancel each other out imo.
    I agree, which means it'll fall on either forensic audio to try to determine a voice and/or eyewitnesses.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    I agree, which means it'll fall on either forensic audio to try to determine a voice and/or eyewitnesses.
    Which wont happen, I'd bet. The "expert" who used software on all of the media outlets has been challenged here and shown to be, at best, a nation-wide commercial for the software he used. In other posts people have pointed out that the FBI does not use voice analysis for court evidence, only the means of a "warm fuzzy" (my estimation) just like a polygraph. There is one other "expert" but I haven't seen a whole lot of talk of him from those who support Zimmerman or Florida State.
    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
    “In all debates, let truth be thy aim, not victory, or an unjust interest.” - William Penn

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-man-reports/2

    Serino said Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, listened to all of the 911 calls in the case before the entire family convened at City Hall to listen Friday night. When asked if the voice on one, a male calling for help was his son, told Serino no.

    Police lied Friday, Crump said, when they said Tracy Martin said the voice crying for help was not his son. What Tracy Martin told police, Crump said, was that "he couldn't tell, that it was too distorted."

    The audio has since been cleaned up, and now Tracy Martin has no doubt but that the voice is his son, Crump said.


    So again, Crump needed to do damage control on what was said initially. Why does Serino feel the need to lie about what TM initially said if he initially thought GZ should be charged anyway?
    BBM

    But how do we know that Serino is lying, and was not misquoted instead?

    After all, hasn't it been stated on this forum that there have been numerous instances of shoddy reporting in this case?


    "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
    -Martin Luther King, Jr.



  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by cityslick View Post
    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...-man-reports/2

    Serino said Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, listened to all of the 911 calls in the case before the entire family convened at City Hall to listen Friday night. When asked if the voice on one, a male calling for help was his son, told Serino no.

    Police lied Friday, Crump said, when they said Tracy Martin said the voice crying for help was not his son. What Tracy Martin told police, Crump said, was that "he couldn't tell, that it was too distorted."

    The audio has since been cleaned up, and now Tracy Martin has no doubt but that the voice is his son, Crump said.


    So again, Crump needed to do damage control on what was said initially. Why does Serino feel the need to lie about what TM initially said if he initially thought GZ should be charged anyway?
    Good question...And I suspect Serino has the answer...JMHO
    "It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

    JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    If both the prosecution and the defense bring out a mother to say it's their son they would tend to cancel each other out imo unless one is perceived as not credible.

    None of the parents involved here have (hopefully) had many opportunities to witness their son screaming in fear for his life.

    Emotional factors that can cloud perception include "OMG, I can't believe my son screamed like that before he died, it's not him", "OMG, I can't believe my son screamed like that before he died, we must get him justice", and "OMG, we must save our son from prison, that has GOT to be his voice to prove that he was in mortal fear".
    I am hoping they have technology that proves it's Trayvon. Those screams sound to me like a young person who's in terrible, terrible fear for his life. I don't believe for one second someone who has gun full 'o hollow point bullets would choose "screaming" over pulling the trigger.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gin View Post
    I am hoping they have technology that proves it's Trayvon. Those screams sound to me like a young person who's in terrible, terrible fear for his life. I don't believe for one second someone who has gun full 'o hollow point bullets would choose "screaming" over pulling the trigger.
    Without something to compare the screams to, technology capable or not, they can't say it WAS Mr. Martin. They can only give an estimation that it wasn't Mr. Zimmerman.

    Edit: Also, as a carrier I can tell you that I would do everything in my power before I decided to draw my weapon. We are not "gun slingin" outlaws who shoot to kill then blow on the barrel of our guns before re-holstering.
    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
    “In all debates, let truth be thy aim, not victory, or an unjust interest.” - William Penn

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velouria View Post
    BBM

    But how do we know that Serino is lying, and was not misquoted instead?

    After all, hasn't it been stated on this forum that there have been numerous instances of shoddy reporting in this case?
    Because Crump said he was lying?

    So, it's either one of two things. Either Crump is right and Serino is lying on what Tracey Martin initially said, which is a whole other can of worms that goes way beyond George Zimmerman or TM really did initially say that, Crump found out and has to fix that statement because putting doubt into the cries also potentially puts doubt in the minds of the public.

    This is why I really want to know if Serino thought GZ was initially guilty, if that's the truth. The article says there was an affidavit filed, which means there is a record somewhere.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Noiter View Post
    Without something to compare the screams to, technology capable or not, they can't say it WAS Mr. Martin. They can only give an estimation that it wasn't Mr. Zimmerman.

    Edit: Also, as a carrier I can tell you that I would do everything in my power before I decided to draw my weapon. We are not "gun slingin" outlaws who shoot to kill then blow on the barrel of our guns before re-holstering.
    I agree whole heartedly.

  9. #204
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    <modsnip>

    I listened to the call with the yelling last night over and over, just trying to put myself in the situation of the person yelling. The pleas are agonizing. They are from someone scared for their life. I imagine a stranger covering my nose and mouth, moving my head away to scream only to have my mouth covered again, swallowing blood from somewhere (no mistaking the taste), not knowing what damage has already been done ... feeling like I'm going in and out of consciousness ... terror will make a person pass out. Forty five seconds can seem like a lifetime when you feel like your life is about to end, everything is in slow motion. Why won't someone help? I see two people, they leave, no one is going to help, oh my God, he's going to kill me. I keep moving, trying to get away but this guy is on my chest, I can't breathe, I can't get him off me, I can only hit him in his legs, his stomach, nothing is working, HELP!! I have no choice but to shoot this guy or his going to kill me. The screaming stops.

    I tried to put myself in Trayvon's place, on top of GZ, screaming for help. I can't get past why he would be in the power position screaming for help, or why the two witnesses would find the sight of a screaming Trayvon on top of George, a terrifying scenario rather than curious. If I saw Trayvon screaming and he was on top of George, I would immediately think he was trying to get attention to help George. Like a scene from a movie when someone's been hit by a car and the bystander runs over, tries to determine if the person is alive or dead, and starts yelling for someone to call 911

    Some have said they think GZ was holding onto TM's hoodie. Sort of ridiculous when you really stop and try to visualize it - hoodies are made of stretchy material, TM would be pulling away and on his feet or on his side, moving away, not on top of GZ, screaming. If GZ's intent was to shoot TM, he would have shot him right away instead of allowing him to scream for almost a full minute, attracting attention.

    JMO
    Last edited by beach; 05-08-2012 at 03:51 PM. Reason: removed quoted post. Reply is on topic regarding the cries for help.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    I listened to the call with the yelling last night over and over, just trying to put myself in the situation of the person yelling. The pleas are agonizing. They are from someone scared for their life. I imagine a stranger covering my nose and mouth, moving my head away to scream only to have my mouth covered again, swallowing blood from somewhere (no mistaking the taste), not knowing what damage has already been done ... feeling like I'm going in and out of consciousness ... terror will make a person pass out. Forty five seconds can seem like a lifetime when you feel like your life is about to end, everything is in slow motion. Why won't someone help? I see two people, they leave, no one is going to help, oh my God, he's going to kill me. I keep moving, trying to get away but this guy is on my chest, I can't breathe, I can't get him off me, I can only hit him in his legs, his stomach, nothing is working, HELP!! I have no choice but to shoot this guy or his going to kill me. The screaming stops.

    I tried to put myself in Trayvon's place, on top of GZ, screaming for help. I can't get past why he would be in the power position screaming for help, or why the two witnesses would find the sight of a screaming Trayvon on top of George, a terrifying scenario rather than curious. If I saw Trayvon screaming and he was on top of George, I would immediately think he was trying to get attention to help George. Like a scene from a movie when someone's been hit by a car and the bystander runs over, tries to determine if the person is alive or dead, and starts yelling for someone to call 911

    Some have said they think GZ was holding onto TM's hoodie. Sort of ridiculous when you really stop and try to visualize it - hoodies are made of stretchy material, TM would be pulling away and on his feet or on his side, moving away, not on top of GZ, screaming. If GZ's intent was to shoot TM, he would have shot him right away instead of allowing him to scream for almost a full minute, attracting attention.

    JMO
    Excellent post. I truly believe that GZ only fired as a very last resort. TM screaming just makes no sense to me. I don't believe that gun was unholstered until just before it was fired.


  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    I listened to the call with the yelling last night over and over, just trying to put myself in the situation of the person yelling. The pleas are agonizing. They are from someone scared for their life. I imagine a stranger covering my nose and mouth, moving my head away to scream only to have my mouth covered again, swallowing blood from somewhere (no mistaking the taste), not knowing what damage has already been done ... feeling like I'm going in and out of consciousness ... terror will make a person pass out. Forty five seconds can seem like a lifetime when you feel like your life is about to end, everything is in slow motion. Why won't someone help? I see two people, they leave, no one is going to help, oh my God, he's going to kill me. I keep moving, trying to get away but this guy is on my chest, I can't breathe, I can't get him off me, I can only hit him in his legs, his stomach, nothing is working, HELP!! I have no choice but to shoot this guy or his going to kill me. The screaming stops.

    I tried to put myself in Trayvon's place, on top of GZ, screaming for help. I can't get past why he would be in the power position screaming for help, or why the two witnesses would find the sight of a screaming Trayvon on top of George, a terrifying scenario rather than curious. If I saw Trayvon screaming and he was on top of George, I would immediately think he was trying to get attention to help George. Like a scene from a movie when someone's been hit by a car and the bystander runs over, tries to determine if the person is alive or dead, and starts yelling for someone to call 911

    Some have said they think GZ was holding onto TM's hoodie. Sort of ridiculous when you really stop and try to visualize it - hoodies are made of stretchy material, TM would be pulling away and on his feet or on his side, moving away, not on top of GZ, screaming. If GZ's intent was to shoot TM, he would have shot him right away instead of allowing him to scream for almost a full minute, attracting attention.

    JMO
    While that is a great visual and something I'm sure that the defense will use in the trial there is one problem with it..........the evidence that we have seen so far does not back it up. Zimmerman shows no signs of a life or death struggle/fight at all on the police station videos. There are no blood stains on either his shirt or jacket that are visible on the police station videos. EMS released Zimmerman after a few minutes without so much as a bandage on his injuries.

    Trayvon could have very well been on top of Zimmerman because of Zimmerman refusing to release him. We have no idea if Zimmerman had his gun out at the time or not. I know that if someone had a hold of me, refused to let me go and had a gun pointed at me I would be fighting like hell to get away while screaming and pleading for my life. And I am not a 17 year old kid either.

    MOO

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
    While that is a great visual and something I'm sure that the defense will use in the trial there is one problem with it..........the evidence that we have seen so far does not back it up. Zimmerman shows no signs of a life or death struggle/fight at all on the police station videos. There are no blood stains on either his shirt or jacket that are visible on the police station videos. EMS released Zimmerman after a few minutes without so much as a bandage on his injuries.

    Trayvon could have very well been on top of Zimmerman because of Zimmerman refusing to release him. We have no idea if Zimmerman had his gun out at the time or not. I know that if someone had a hold of me, refused to let me go and had a gun pointed at me I would be fighting like hell to get away while screaming and pleading for my life. And I am not a 17 year old kid either.

    MOO
    ^^ what she said. ^^

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
    While that is a great visual and something I'm sure that the defense will use in the trial there is one problem with it..........the evidence that we have seen so far does not back it up. Zimmerman shows no signs of a life or death struggle/fight at all on the police station videos. There are no blood stains on either his shirt or jacket that are visible on the police station videos. EMS released Zimmerman after a few minutes without so much as a bandage on his injuries.

    Trayvon could have very well been on top of Zimmerman because of Zimmerman refusing to release him. We have no idea if Zimmerman had his gun out at the time or not. I know that if someone had a hold of me, refused to let me go and had a gun pointed at me I would be fighting like hell to get away while screaming and pleading for my life. And I am not a 17 year old kid either.

    MOO
    You also couldn't see the gashes in his head on those videos until they were enhanced. EMTs saying he doesn't need to go to the hospital is based on the fact that he was coherent. If he were not coherent he wouldn't have an option, but because he was they could not force him to go.
    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
    “In all debates, let truth be thy aim, not victory, or an unjust interest.” - William Penn

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorisMom003 View Post
    While that is a great visual and something I'm sure that the defense will use in the trial there is one problem with it..........the evidence that we have seen so far does not back it up. Zimmerman shows no signs of a life or death struggle/fight at all on the police station videos. There are no blood stains on either his shirt or jacket that are visible on the police station videos. EMS released Zimmerman after a few minutes without so much as a bandage on his injuries.

    Trayvon could have very well been on top of Zimmerman because of Zimmerman refusing to release him. We have no idea if Zimmerman had his gun out at the time or not. I know that if someone had a hold of me, refused to let me go and had a gun pointed at me I would be fighting like hell to get away while screaming and pleading for my life. And I am not a 17 year old kid either.

    MOO
    If GZ had a gun pointed at TM and TM got himself on top of GZ during a scuffle, in a position of power, how exactly does that happen? How does somebody holding a gun out wind up on the bottom with someone on top of him? How does someone who has a gun pointed at them, attack said gunman and wind up on top of them?

    Because it's not possible. Either TM was never on top of GZ or he was and GZ didn't have has gun drawn before the fight. I just can't believe any human being, unless they were just looking to die, would attack someone if they saw a person pointing a gun at them.

  15. #210
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    THREAD TOPIC:

    The cries for help



    I am going to remove all these off topic posts cluttering up here. So if you are missing a post, that will be why. When I get off work and have time I will try to move them to the correct thread. Until then, please don't quote/respond to off topic posts and continue to drive the thread off topic.

    Thanks!

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