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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    There wasn't just the one eyewitness statement though...Matt Guttman interviews second eyewitness.
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZVMZ...eature=related

    Thank you, I hadn't seen that before.

    So just to be clear, witness AB said, I saw one person on the ground, I know they had on a t-shirt..(interviewer asks more questions)..a red t-shirt.

    So to me it doesn't sound like AB has an accurate or complete eye-witness account. He said, that he saw one person on the ground. Where was the other person? He said he knows they (the person on the ground) was wearing a red t-shirt.

    I hadn't heard that either GZ or TM was wearing a red t-shirt. Did AB mean red t-shirt or red jacket?

    Do you know the date of that interview?
    Last edited by cherishtoo; 05-07-2012 at 01:40 AM. Reason: to remove witness name


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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
    I've seen some people say that GZ outran Trayvon and cornered him thus preventing Trayvons ability to reach his home. Number one, would GZ be able to outrun Trayvon? Number two, could Trayvon while running home, be cornered and not be able to to escape?
    GZ had his gun aimed at Trayvon which caused TM's terrified screaming, imo. I think he was standing there looking down the barrel of GZ's gun, screaming for his life, not running anywhere. GZ had caught up to TM walking not running, then shot & killed him. Unless TM had turned to run and GZ shot him in the back? TM was on his stomach, was he shot in the back? The autopsy will answer a lot of questions.



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  5. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by csziggy View Post
    If Detective Gilbreath had not read the reports of the FBI or the actual reports from the experts hired by the Orlando Sentinel (other than the general information published in the newspaper) then how could he have gotten any insight as to the voice? As to whether or not anyone else on the prosecution team might have insight, that would be hearsay as far as Gilbreath could say. It would be improper for him to testify about it under oath.

    Gilbreath has been a law enforcement officer for a long time and has testified under oath enough times that he probably knew that it was something that he could not answer with anything other than a "No" response, no matter how O'Mara fished for an answer that would help Zimmerman's defense.

    IMO, JMO, etc.
    "O'MARA: Witnesses heard people arguing, sounded like a struggle. During this time, witnesses heard numerous calls for help. Some of this was recorded. Trayvon's mom reviewed the 911 calls and identified the cry for help and Trayvon Martin's voice. Did you do any forensic analysis on that voice tape?

    GILBREATH: Did I?

    O'MARA: Did you or are you aware of anything?

    GILBREATH: The "Orlando Sentinel" had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

    O'MARA: Is that part of your investigation?

    GILBREATH: Yes.

    O'MARA: Has that given any insight as to the voice?"

    GILBREATH: No.
    LINK

    The only mention of the screams in the PC document is where it states SM recognized them as her son's screams. If the FBI had found the screams to be TM's, that would surely have been in the charging document, as it would hold more weight that SM's best guess. IMO
    Probable Cause Document
    .


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  7. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoiler View Post
    How do you know any of this is true? How do you KNOW George had the upper hand? He's six inches shorter than Trevon. Were you there? What do the eye witnesses say? And i doubt these guys are audio experts at all.
    IMO...

    GZ had the upper hand, because he had a gun.
    <Click on User CP>
    Scroll down and on the left
    <Click on Edit Ignore List>
    In add a Member to your list
    <start typing the name of the person you want to ignore>
    <Click on OKay>

    IF WE COOK IT THEY WILL COME!



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  9. #95
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by lonetraveler View Post
    I've got to say that I agree with you. After reading GZ's brother's statement about GZ choking on copious amounts of blood and having difficulty breathing and then listening to the frantic screams for help, I just cannot put GZ as the one doing the screaming, how on earth could he scream that loud while choking on blood and having difficulty with breathing. The person screaming doesn't appear to have a choking or breathing problem.
    bbm

    Exactly, lonetraveler!

    ... AND there is another FACT that many people might not know about the "copious amounts of blood," flowing down the back of George Zimmerman's throat, (as RZ jr. so adamantly claimed).


    Example #1

    My husband's tonsils were removed when he was 32. The surgery was apparently successful; but when I got him home and situated in bed he began vomiting blood. Shortly thereafter he suffered bloody diarrhea. He had bloody bodily fluids pouring out from both ends of his body every few minutes. I rushed him back to the hospital immediately.

    Apparently some of the tonsillectomy sutures had come loose and unknown to my husband, blood was dripping down the back of his throat into his stomach.

    His surgeon said that although he was certainly NOT bleeding "copious amounts," it was still necessary to take him back to surgery to re-suture the incisions. The second time I took him home with better, secure sutures he was fine.

    Example #2

    I took into my home my sister's adopted 18 year old daughter who my sister had thrown out of her house. I knew the adopted daughter had been experimenting with drugs but I felt badly that she had so cruelly been thrown out of her home with nowhere to go. I thought I could watch her carefully and make sure she had no access to drugs, and hopefully get her into a post high school vocational ed. program.

    Things went fine for a couple weeks when she woke me up in the middle of the night and told me she was bleeding. She led me to the toilet which was FULL of bright red blood along with runny feces. She then vomitted -- again a bunch more bright red blood.

    She informed me she had been stealing from my Excedrin bottle which I always had available for my migraine headaches. She was swallowing a HANDFUL of Excedrin several times a day. I still cannot imagine anyone attempting to get *high* on Excedrin. I've never heard of it before, or since.

    I rushed her to the emergency room, still wearing my pajamas. Shortly thereafter her doctor warned me that she might not survive. The aspirin in the Excedrin had eaten a hole in her stomach and the acetaminophen could destroy her liver. She was in intensive care for over a week. Fortunately, she DID survive.

    The moral of the stories:


    The human digestive system is not meant to consume and digest ample amounts of fresh, raw blood ... most certainly NOT "copious amounts of blood."

    Therefore, when blood flows out the inside-back of one's nose and enters the stomach the body's reaction is to vomit it out. IF blood passes through the stomach into the intestines, it comes out the other end as prolific, uncontrollable, bloody diarrhea.

    Had George Zimmerman ingested "copious amounts of blood" flowing down the back of his throat from his supposed *broken nose,* he would have been both vomiting and probably defecating blood at the Sanford Police Station. HE DID NOT!

    BTW, IF the "copious amounts of blood" traveled down GZ's throat into his lungs instead of his stomach, he would have suffocated -- drowned in his own blood.

    George's story about *copious amounts of blood* flowing down his throat, along with his other nonsensical, far-fetched-tales are all a big bunch of unbelievable LIES. _

    During George's murder trial, common sense alone should prove his tall tales are self-serving LIES -- but I'm sure there will be plenty of court approved experts also there, attesting to his multiple stoopid, and oh so silly LIES! _

    in my opinion, of course.


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  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    TM had two chances to get away before the screaming started, once when he initially ran, and again when he knocked GZ to the ground. I just can't wrap my head around jumping on top of someone and screaming for help, makes no sense.
    Perhaps unwrapping and imagining Zimmerman confronting Martin may alleviate the confusion?


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  13. #97
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    • How was George screaming with his mouth and nose covered?

    • How was George screaming if he was out of breath?

    • How was George screaming if he was barely conscious?


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS0h9D9TIv0"]Questions For Robert Zimmerman Jr - YouTube[/ame]


    But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops. Luke 12, 2-3



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  15. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post

    There wasn't just the one eyewitness statement though
    ...Matt Guttman interviews second eyewitness.
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZVMZ...eature=related
    bbm

    Did you watch this video, vlpate? It certainly does NOT corroborate John's statement. _

    This kid says he saw only ONE person on the ground with a red T-SHIRT.

    George was wearing a bulky red and black JACKET, NOT a T-SHIRT.

    If ONLY ONE person was on the ground then there certainly is NOT a SECOND person on top of him, is there?

    That kid's mother was also interviewed and firmly stated that the SPD interviewer guided her son to the answer he wanted by suggesting to her son three choices of colors, emphasizing "red" -- that the guy on the bottom was supposedly wearing.

    His mother stated the boy had already told the investigator that it was too dark to see colors.

    Additionally, I have also seen this same boy state that it was a WHITE T-shirt the guy on the ground was wearing.

    This is an excellent example of how UNRELIABLE witness testimony is, and always has been!

    Unjustly imprisoned people who have been freed from prison via accurate DNA results were sent to prison because of FAULTY eye-witness testimony more than any other single reason.

    In any case, again, this boys statement absolutely does NOT corroborate John's statement! _

    in my humble opinion!


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  17. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
    • How was George screaming with his mouth and nose covered?


    • How was George screaming if he was out of breath?


    • How was George screaming if he was barely conscious?


    Questions For Robert Zimmerman Jr - YouTube
    Thank you, Concerned Papa!

    Every single one of your posts are so informative and thought provoking.

    You are without a question the VERY, VERY BEST Websleuths has to offer!

    ... I've been around here for a long, long time and I know I also speak for many others.

    Thank you again -- you're absolutely GREAT! -



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  19. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandmaTo4 View Post
    bbm

    Did you watch this video, vlpate? It certainly does NOT corroborate John's statement. _

    This kid says he saw only ONE person on the ground with a red T-SHIRT. George was wearing a bulky red and black JACKET, NOT a T-SHIRT.
    This interview was early on and it's been completely removed by ABC. There's a reason for that, IMO. As far as whether it was a T-shirt, a sweater, or a jacket, it was red and hopefully Twin Lakes is not littered with screaming men in red, rolling around the grounds
    If ONLY ONE person was on the ground then there certainly is NOT a SECOND person on top of him, is there?
    I believe this is when TM first punched GZ. The little boy then went back around his building, as he describes, and hears the screaming when TM gets on top of GZ and assaults him.
    That kid's mother was also interviewed and firmly stated that the SPD interviewer guided her son to the answer he wanted by suggesting to her son three choices of colors, emphasizing "red" -- that the guy on the bottom was supposedly wearing.
    Clearly Matt Guttman did not steer him in any way, shape or form, he said, without an ounce of provocation, "red". The kid's mother also said she put LE off for three days (I'm assuming so she could obtain legal representation), before she allowed them to interview her son. She's put her 13 year old son's first, middle, and last name out to the public - why? To what end?? Why is she going on Al Shaprton's show to tell her son's story? Of course he was interviewed and likely the night it happened. When the document dump happens, we'll see agendas, IMO.
    His mother stated the boy had already told the investigator that it was too dark to see colors.
    His mother wasn't there.
    Additionally, I have also seen this same boy state that it was a WHITE T-shirt the guy on the ground was wearing.
    I thought it was too dark to see colors?
    This is an excellent example of how UNRELIABLE witness testimony is, and always has been!
    Unfortunately I think this is the exact reaction Crump and Co. were shooting or with the mother and her interviews.
    Unjustly imprisoned people who have been freed from prison via accurate DNA results were sent to prison because of FAULTY eye-witness testimony more than any other single reason.
    IMO, the prosecution has the faultiest eyewitness with their "shadows running" in a direction Gilbreath was not certain of. Seems a bit like reaching to me.
    In any case, again, this boys statement absolutely does NOT corroborate John's statement! _
    in my humble opinion!
    Their first statements to police are all that will count anyway, not the media circus. So, we will see come dump time. JMO


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  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
    • How was George screaming with his mouth and nose covered?

    • How was George screaming if he was out of breath?

    • How was George screaming if he was barely conscious?


    Questions For Robert Zimmerman Jr - YouTube
    I wasn't aware that we could use our own edited version of MSM videos, nice. My question would be, if it's TM screaming, why? He's on top of GZ and the screaming goes off and on for over 45 seconds.

    That and the fact that no one said his mouth was covered the entire 45 - 60 seconds they were wrestling around on the ground, they were moving. It stands to reason he could have moved his head free off and on.

    Mary Cutcher's, by the way, said she didn't hear screaming, that she heard moaning and then a gun shot - maybe that's when he was covering his mouth and nose? JMO


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  23. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    I've seen that too Ranch, but even the prosecutor stated he estimated GZ stopped following TM about a minute prior to the phone call ending. TM's g/f said TM told her he lost GZ, and GZ states on the 911 call he didn't know where he was. That would mean GZ disconnected the call and ran like the dickens, found the hiding TM, and cornered him --shall we add here "with the help of an accomplice" that some have speculated on as well?

    The only thing that makes sense is TM coming out of nowhere and confronting GZ. Funny how it seems so simple to some, like me, and so difficult to countless others, lol.
    When did she say that?


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  25. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by who View Post
    Perhaps unwrapping and imagining Zimmerman confronting Martin may alleviate the confusion?
    Well it doesn't help because I'm not talking about the confrontation. Why would TM be screaming while he was assaulting GZ?


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  27. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    Well it doesn't help because I'm not talking about the confrontation. Why would TM be screaming while he was assaulting GZ?
    You answered your own question. Trayvon was screaming because he was being assaulted BY George Zimmerman. JMO


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  29. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by francie View Post
    This is jmo but I don't think Trayvon was able to say anything after the shooting. I think his screaming stopped abruptly after the shot because he was killed instantly due to the hollow point bullet, but we won't know until coroner's report is released.

    I agree with you, francie.

    A killer-hollow-point-bullet to Trayvon's center chest would have instantly ripped apart both his heart and lungs.

    For Trayvon to opine with his dying last breath, "you got it," or "You got me" is not only melodramatic, right out of a 60's Western "B" movie, but also physically impossible.

    Ya have to wonder how people can even dream up such ridiculous statements. _

    They go right along with >>>

    "Copious amounts of blood flowing down George's throat."

    " One more head slam to the concrete and George would be wearing diapers and spoon-fed by Robert jr. the rest of his life."

    "Gashes and blows to the back of George's head so deadly serious he was almost unconscious and had to murder Trayvon to save his own life."

    "George was so scared when Trayvon was nefariously circling his SUV that George forgot he was armed with his trusty 9mm handgun loaded with hollow point bullets."


    ** the above is my opinion and paraphrased

    My 11 year old grandson could invent more convincing fairy-tale lies!



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