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Thread: Trial Thread 7 May 2012 - Closing Arguments, Defense then the Crown

  1. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Bug View Post
    She said he had killed Tori soon after he said he was going to stop visiting.

    Derstine suggests McClintic thought Rafferty helped her out, and she didn't want him to go to police on her.

    RaffertyLFP: Derstine said it was McClintic who initiated contact with Rafferty after the crime

    RaffertyLFP: Derstine said that Rafferty and McClintic maintained contact because both feared the other would go to the police
    Who gave her money to put minutes on her phone?

    MOO

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  3. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyladi View Post
    Because they both didnt trust each other. They probably made a packed, well he did with her because he knew she would get busted and that is why she said she would take the fall and he loooooved that he was just making sure she would follow through. I am sorry she did not come up with this concocted plan he did. JMO
    The <modsnip> pact<modsnip> was likely TLM would keep him out of it, if he helped her in what she needed or demanded. JMO
    Last edited by Salem; 05-07-2012 at 09:59 PM. Reason: no need to 'help' others, thanks.

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  5. #678
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    That's it?!?!? Wow. I bet he will be found guilty. JMO

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  7. #679
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    Have we seen any proof that TLM was the first to make contact, I don't remember that.

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  9. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    I work in the hotel industry and see what people do when they think no one who knows them are looking ... Plenty of well know men have had hundreds of women and brag about it ... Does that make them child rapists?

    Besides, I know a few bartenders that have had plenty of women, more then MR ...

    Rape is not about sex ... It is about power and control ...
    No but it says something about the person. To me Rafferty couldnt get enough sex and once the women realized that "something was off about him" they took off. He was very secretive so its not just that he was a male whore.

    People dont randomly just rape a child. They have fantasized about it and yes I do believe he did fantasize about raping a child.

    I am just glad I am not a juror to make this choice with all that I have heard from the beginning from all directions.
    May you rest in peace.....Tori Stafford

    Missing but never forgotten Nicole Louise Morin last seen July 30th 1985

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32372

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  11. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisy.faithfull View Post
    Have we seen any proof that TLM was the first to make contact, I don't remember that.
    Considering he was the one knocking on her door after the first time out, makes me think this is just not true whatsoever. I dont believe it at all. JMO
    May you rest in peace.....Tori Stafford

    Missing but never forgotten Nicole Louise Morin last seen July 30th 1985

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32372

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  13. #682
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    RaffertyLFP:
    Derstine said that Rafferty and McClintic maintained contact because both feared the other would go to the police [via Twitter]
    This says it all. They were both in it together and covering for each other.

    Guilty as charged.

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  15. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    Who gave her money to put minutes on her phone?

    MOO
    Good point!!! And her phone was the old flip up phone too no, or was that carols or did they share the same phone?
    May you rest in peace.....Tori Stafford

    Missing but never forgotten Nicole Louise Morin last seen July 30th 1985

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32372

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  17. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisy.faithfull View Post
    Have we seen any proof that TLM was the first to make contact, I don't remember that.
    Probably in the phone records. It had been over a month since CM had her phone on and all of a sudden within a day or two of the crime...voila...phone is working again. On a long Easter weekend no less. Now who is the one with stacks of cash and a bag of percs for sale?

    MOO

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  19. #685
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    Am logging off for a while but would just like to point an observation out to my fellow sleuthers. I know I have been off in some of my posts and for that I appologize. However I just want to add because someone adds "respectfully" or "JMO" before a post does not make the post not rude.
    Sympathy is prejudice disguised as pity.

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  21. #686
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    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  23. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    Being a 28 year old man with an ative sex life does not make him a pedophile rapist ... If I understand it correctly it is the opposite ...
    A 28 year old man with a preference for single mothers might.

    Then again, it might not. We don't know what he thinks or wants. And even if he thought about it doesn't mean he acted it out.


    Point: lots of 'possibly', 'maybe', 'might'... either way, nothing is definite -- we can't read his mind.

    JMO



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  25. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    Rape is not about sex ... It is about power and control ...
    <rsbm>

    That is a well-known fact Tahorn, and I believe that MTR did not have power and control in his romantic relationships. Sex he had, but relationships did not flourish (except TLM who he probably didn't think of as a keeper anyway). I believe it was the week prior to Tori's murder that he had broken up with AL (whom he had known from his earlier days). She broke it up too. IIRC, AL was the ONLY one who testified who brought MTR to tears as she left the courtroom.

    Possibly the rape of a female child was all about power and control ... that he did not have over his relationships with adult women.

    JMO

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  27. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyladi View Post
    Considering he was the one knocking on her door after the first time out, makes me think this is just not true whatsoever. I dont believe it at all. JMO
    She arranged him to have access in dentention ... He wasn't even able to talk on the phone until she arranged it ...

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  29. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhSoCurious View Post
    It was not proven that she did not either. The extreme likelihood is there of some remote acquaintance. Poor Tori, skipped along and chatted with too much trust for stranger danger. JMO
    bbm: I completely disagree with what I bolded... We see it case after case after case again. Perpetrators are cunning and know what to say to get what they want.



    eta: to name a recent case: Ryan Brunn took a picture of little Jorelys Rivera's roller skate (that he stole) and told her he had found it... and she walked off with him to a vacant apartment where she was raped, murdered, and then dumped into a trash compactor.

    Yes. it happens. And yes, kids are happily lured away...
    This bee my opinion

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  31. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyladi View Post
    Considering he was the one knocking on her door after the first time out, makes me think this is just not true whatsoever. I dont believe it at all. JMO
    Why? Only evidence is TLM

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  33. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    She arranged him to have access in dentention ... He wasn't even able to talk on the phone until she arranged it ...
    Because she was in love with him and he pretended he cared for her, took her to look at rings, having sex with her etc etc. Sorry she arranged it for that reason not for any other reason. They are Bonnie and Clyde through and through. He just think he isnt going to get caught.
    May you rest in peace.....Tori Stafford

    Missing but never forgotten Nicole Louise Morin last seen July 30th 1985

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32372

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  35. #693
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    Rafferty was in touch with CM TLM's Mother...

    Passing messages to one another, I'm sure

    jmo
    "The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them."
    ★★★★★ ღ♥Lois McMaster Bujold♥ღ ★★★★★

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  37. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    Why? Only evidence is TLM
    ummm well she was there no?? JMO
    May you rest in peace.....Tori Stafford

    Missing but never forgotten Nicole Louise Morin last seen July 30th 1985

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32372

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  39. #695
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    When TLM said she cut out pieces of the back seat....she never said the bottom back seat. Maybe it was the backrest of the backseat. Maybe it was all cut up, and then replaced with a new one right after the murder.

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  41. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyladi View Post
    ummm well she was there no?? JMO
    If she says so ...

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  43. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenniferleia View Post
    When TLM said she cut out pieces of the back seat....she never said the bottom back seat. Maybe it was the backrest of the backseat. Maybe it was all cut up, and then replaced with a new one right after the murder.
    Speaking of the back seat, noticed that Derstine conveniently skipped over that entirely.

    MOO

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  45. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahorn View Post
    She arranged him to have access in dentention ... He wasn't even able to talk on the phone until she arranged it ...
    He wouldn't even have known she wanted to arrange that if he wasn't in contact with her mother.

    MOO

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  47. #699
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    Thank you to all of those members such as Robynhood, Sailorbug, n/t and others who kept the tread alive for Tori today.

    Many sleuthers here predicted this would be the weak tack the defence would take but I can't understand why Derstine needed a 4 day weekend to cobble it together. Looking forward to what the Crown has to say tomorrow.

    Good night. It's late evening here in the KSA.

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  49. #700
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    In my opiinion, the Crown has to put something together tomorrow that makes sense and is supported by real evidence, not speculation and conjecture, that proves MR is guilty. After today, I think the jury will choose to disregard all of TLM's testimony.

    Nobody will want to vote for conviction of such serious charges, based on testimony from such an unreliable witness.

    The Crown knew they had a problem with TLM from the outset, and have tried to mitigate the damage, but Derstine has brilliantly brought TLM's credibility as the main issue in the trial.

    It is an issue the Crown is probably loathe to defend.

    JMO.............

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